Warp Talons and stuff

[Kol Saresk]

And what exactly does Fear do?

 

Again, all I have right is the Codex. Hence the apparently dumb idea and all the questions.

[Iron Sage]

Opponent must roll leadership at the start of the Fight sub-phase. It they fail, they are at WS 1 untill end of turn.

 

Obviously decent against some armies, except marines and fearless etc. Point is, its useless against something like 65% of armies, so extremly situational.

[Smurfalypse]

Kol, you must be in base to base to be in close combat. If you are not in close combat you have to stay 1" away.

 

There is the shooting phase and there is the assault phase. There is no close combat in the shooting phase and weapons can not be fired in the assault phase.

 

When deep striking, you can not get any closer than one inch to an enemy model. After deep striking you can not assault and you can not deep strike into close combat.

 

There are a rare few units in 40K that can assault the same turn they arrive on the board but none are in the Chaos Space marine codex. Warp Talons can not assault on the turn they arrive.

Thanks Jacinda.

 

@Smurf: I was wondering what the distance was before "shooting" turned into CC and if there was a way to get close enough that it would force them into CC without having to Assault. Although an inch is pretty close and I keep hearing how medium-long range weapons aren't supposed to be used in short range. Why is that? If you can shoot from max range - base contact, there's a chance you'll kill them before they reach you so why the buffer zone?

 

And isn't the daemon rule supposed to be some sort of buff?

 

Trust me man, I really wish they were better. Especially Possessed, they are in the same boat. They are fun units, but not competitive.

[Iron Sage]

I think Nurgle marked Possessed for 30 points would have seen some use had they been in possession of assault grenades. Str 5, T5, 2A, fearless, fear, +5 invul, fleet, isn`t shabby at all. But there is that about grenades and the fact that most units you assault will be in some sort of over and you thereofore strike at Init 1 first turn.

[Jonah]

Raptor with Claws = 47pts

Warp Talon = 30 pts

 

Also everyone seems to be forgetting they are Daemons so they get a 5++ (4++ with Tzeentch).

 

Overpriced? I would say no.

 

The lack of grenades is a bummer, sure. But look at everything we have to flush people out of cover like the Drake and Skalathrax.

 

They don't have to be too specialised either, they don't have to deepstrike. You can run them behind rhinos and other troops just like anything else. Save the risky deepstrikes for gunlines.

 

I love the models and really want to make them work. I will post more on them as I get experience playing them, but I think they should be cracking fun to play.

[Kol Saresk]

Opponent must roll leadership at the start of the Fight sub-phase. It they fail, they are at WS 1 untill end of turn.

 

Obviously decent against some armies, except marines and fearless etc. Point is, its useless against something like 65% of armies, so extremly situational.

So wait, on the armies that does work on, that means they have to take two tests right after the Warp Talons appear then right? One when they show up and one before they can attack.

[Iron Sage]

Opponent must roll leadership at the start of the Fight sub-phase. It they fail, they are at WS 1 untill end of turn.

 

Obviously decent against some armies, except marines and fearless etc. Point is, its useless against something like 65% of armies, so extremly situational.

So wait, on the armies that does work on, that means they have to take two tests right after the Warp Talons appear then right? One when they show up and one before they can attack.

 

Yes, but as others noted, they can`t charge in the same turn they deepstrike, so yes and no to be honest.

[Kol Saresk]

It only happens if the Warp Talons charge? These rules are confusing. No wonder I stayed with the fluff for so long.

[Dallas Drake]

Raptor with Claws = 47pts

Warp Talon = 30 pts

 

Lightning claws are not what they used to be. I don't see many of them around these days.

 

Also everyone seems to be forgetting they are Daemons so they get a 5++ (4++ with Tzeentch).

 

& how much is MoT? Another 30 points when they go down to bolters anyway? Meh.

 

I'd love for these guys to work (much as I'd love Possessed to work) but grenades aside, I feel that the problem both units have is their price. If they were 18 points base then ok, I could take not having assault grenades but when you hit the 30 point mark you need something more. I'd use them to pounce on infantry based heavy support or unsupported objective holders, but again it's niche & they cost a lot.

 

I think they should be cracking fun to play.

 

Agreed, & ultimately that's all that matters. Prove us wrong & maybe post your experiences :D

 

Dallas

 

PS. Edit: If I was a NL player I'd be all over these regardless, such cool models etc..

[Kol Saresk]

MoT is five points a model. So in a five man squad like I wanted, MoT would be twenty-five points.

[Dallas Drake]

MoT is five points a model. So in a five man squad like I wanted, MoT would be twenty-five points.

 

Nope, it's 6. None of the marks are 5 points (for Warp Talons).

 

DD

[Kol Saresk]

My bad. I totally looked at that wrong.

 

Thinking about it, I think the purpose is that they are used as a CC-support unit. Like, one unit gets tied up in CC. Drop in Warp Talons. Blind hits the enemy, creating an instant advantage for the next round of CC. Afterwards, they are used in a somewhat similar fashion. One unit is used to soak up fire, then the Warp Talons are used to close into CC and tear them apart. Like the Heldrakes, there's not supposed to be more than one unit in a small(er) army.

[Dallas Drake]

I think that's definitely one use for them. I quite like the idea of them picking on weaker isolated units, almost a cruel predatory sort of thing. I must admit, in my BA I sometimes run 2-3 units of ML Devs which I tend to leave unsupported, Warp Talons would make short work of them.

 

DD

[Smurfalypse]

The real issue is that there ALL of the other fast attack choices we have out perform them on a point per point basis for the most part.

Sad as it is, cause these guys look the part of a bad ass :*(

[JamesI]

I've used Warp Talons once so far, and was not disappointed in them. I'd suggest ignoring the blind ability, its too random and very risky to deep strike near an enemy anyway.

 

They are pretty good as a fast moving counter attack force, say escorting a lord with jump pack or something similar. But they are expensive and that job could be done by raptors or bikers.

[Brother Nihm]

My bad. I totally looked at that wrong.

 

Thinking about it, I think the purpose is that they are used as a CC-support unit. Like, one unit gets tied up in CC. Drop in Warp Talons. Blind hits the enemy, creating an instant advantage for the next round of CC. Afterwards, they are used in a somewhat similar fashion. One unit is used to soak up fire, then the Warp Talons are used to close into CC and tear them apart. Like the Heldrakes, there's not supposed to be more than one unit in a small(er) army.

Now that would be a much better use for them, but how would you control it?

We have 0 reserve manipulation abilites.

[Kol Saresk]

What do you mean "how would I control it"? Can't you just leave it in there until you want to take it out?

[Jonah]

What do you mean "how would I control it"? Can't you just leave it in there until you want to take it out?

 

Uh, you have to roll for reserves!

[Brother Nihm]

Get your hands on a rulebook Kol! :wub:

[Kol Saresk]

I need to get my hands on a job first! :wub:

 

But seriously, rolling for reserves. Is that like keeping them in there? Or is it to control size? Or is it rolling them out of Reserve like in Deep Strike with the scatter roll? In that case, wouldn't it be "roll as normal" except you don't have to roll for scatter if your Dimensional Key is activated?

[space wolf]

no, basically, every turn after the first you roll a d6 for each unit in reserve. on a 3+ they come in the game, as the game continues, it gets easier.

[zyl-]

The best use I can think of would basically be to NOT deepstrike them. Give them a MoK and camp them out of the way until you can put your enemies into a tarpit (probably cultists or spawn), and then charge them into the back for a quick kill. Their mobility, and our ability to tarpit people these days could make for a good time.

 

The blinding business is just rubbish. They would NEED to be able to land more precisely, and assault out of deep strike to be used as a deep striking unit effectively. OR if the blind had no save they could potentially keep themselves safe for their arrival, though they could just as easily take a charge from an enemy 8 inches out even if that were the case. And just to note, say they take 70 bs1 shots from a swarm of (blind) rapid fire cultists they just came in next to. That's still probably at least 1 death before you charge, when you take another death from overwatch and have 3 guys left to attack with at I1, which goes down to 2 guys after they attack first, which they still get to do even if they fail the fear roll, since I1 vs I1 is a wash.

[Sception]

there's dozens of ways the blind could have been less rubbish. It could have had a much larger radius. It could have had an automatic effect instead of allowing the usual initiative test. They could have been able to charge the target immediately. As it is, the rule is purely cosmetic, and has no actual gameplay effect other than to tempt inexperienced players to throw their overpriced jump troops away uselessly, and if even a single point of the talons' points cost is supposed to account for it, that's two points too many.

[Iron Sage]

there's dozens of ways the blind could have been less rubbish. It could have had a much larger radius. It could have had an automatic effect instead of allowing the usual initiative test. They could have been able to charge the target immediately. As it is, the rule is purely cosmetic, and has no actual gameplay effect other than to tempt inexperienced players to throw their overpriced jump troops away uselessly, and if even a single point of the talons' points cost is supposed to account for it, that's two points too many.

 

8" and opponents must re-roll successfull blind tests, would have made the unit actually a tactical choice. Not so much now. I still want to test it though, but will be with proxy models I am afraid :/

[Sception]

If you've got a community that lets you run house rule fixes, then by all means, have at it. I was half way through writing my own entire chaos codex when I realized nobody I knew would ever even read it through to give me their opinion on it, much less let me play it in the store, so it was all wasted effort. After that, wishlisting and homebrew doesn't hold much charm for me.