Tally Of Epidemius

[henrywalker]

so im sure a lot of people have thought about taking epidemius with a typhus list to benefit from his tally. i played a couple of games with this today and i have some thoughts.

 

firstly once the tally got high it was insane. i had 40 plague bearers and 3 nurgle mutilators on the field all of them with 3+ FNP, 2+ poisoned and ignoring armour saves.

 

however i only actually got that far in the first of my games. Both games were against SM bike armies (different ones) so the enemy model count was low which meant getting the tally high was a problem.

 

i was worried at the start that epidemius would be like glass and i had to protect him like hell. because of this i tried to deepstrike him into my corner behind walls and both times he mishapped back into reserves. this was dumb as once he got assaulted he and his plague bearers survived perfectly well, even taking out a few bikes.

 

despite dumb mistakes and me using him terribly against armies that were far from ideal he was still great, winning me both games.

 

i am definitely going to be building my own. I actually have a cool idea, im gonna get one of these Clickers and build the palanquin around it so i can count the tally in the model.

 

anyway, awesome synergy. anyone else had any experiences?

[compgeek1602]

I also used him, and he's pretty epic, to say the least. I actually did the exact opposite of what you did, deep striking him into the very center of my opponent's battle-line in a block of 14 plague bearers on turn 1. It was the best thing I've ever done! He survived the entire game, although I did lose quite a few PB's, but as I racked the tally up, my list went from solid to downright outrageous. My plague marines and chosen started slaughtering everything in sight and not dying.... EVER. Then, my daemon prince went from nasty to ungodly! I tabled him by turn 3. He was playing eldar, but he's the best eldar player I've ever seen, and nobody in my group had come even close to beating him in five months. I am very impressed with how well Epidemius works with Death Guard and am trying very hard to fit him into my lists without losing all my favorite units.

[Circus Nurgling]

Last game I played with Epi, we had 3, three!, chaos players that had at least 2 units with the mark of nurgle in a 3000 pt doubles game (I had Epi). By turn 3 the nids player was scratching his head as plaguebearers were taking down Trygons and the like, and he was staying the hell away from any nurgle units as well as he could! Nurgle vs. Nurgle units were silly slapfights, as we'd wound on 2s, sure, but were saving on 3+ 3+FnP! It was ridiculous (in a good way).

[CitadelArmyGuy]

The combo is extremely powerful, and far outside the bounds of what the internal game-balance of 40k was designed to handle.

 

Grey Knights with their mass-AP3 Force Weapons causing Instant Death to prevent taking Feel No Pain saves are the only ones who will prevent this combo from winning every Tournament you can imagine, IMHO.

 

You don't have to use Typhus to do the combo; just Epidemius and 9 Nurgle Obliterators with a Nurgle Lord to make PlagueMarines as Troops.

[SnorriSnorrison]

The combo is extremely powerful, and far outside the bounds of what the internal game-balance of 40k was designed to handle.

 

Grey Knights with their mass-AP3 Force Weapons causing Instant Death to prevent taking Feel No Pain saves are the only ones who will prevent this combo from winning every Tournament you can imagine, IMHO.

 

1. Yes, yes it is indeed.

 

2. It's surprisingly fluffy, isn't it? Against deamons and Chaos, the Grey Knights are the best defense. Sucks for competitive non-GKs, however.

 

 

Snorri

[Circus Nurgling]

The combo is extremely powerful, and far outside the bounds of what the internal game-balance of 40k was designed to handle.

 

Grey Knights with their mass-AP3 Force Weapons causing Instant Death to prevent taking Feel No Pain saves are the only ones who will prevent this combo from winning every Tournament you can imagine, IMHO.

 

1. Yes, yes it is indeed.

 

2. It's surprisingly fluffy, isn't it? Against deamons and Chaos, the Grey Knights are the best defense. Sucks for competitive non-GKs, however.

 

 

Snorri

 

Wow never thought of it that way. Excellent observation.

[Azekai]

Epi lists are hardly broken- just kill him early. It isn't that hard (unless he is in a bastion). The entire strategy revolves around a single character. He can't even go to ground if he gets in a tough spot. Just hammer Epi's unit and kite the rest of the army and it will be fine.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Epi lists are hardly broken- just kill him early. It isn't that hard (unless he is in a bastion). The entire strategy revolves around a single character. He can't even go to ground if he gets in a tough spot. Just hammer Epi's unit and kite the rest of the army and it will be fine.

Harder said than done. Epidemius is an Independent Character, attached to a Unit which is nearly impossible to remove through shooting. T5 5++ FnP; you'll need absolutely massive amounts of Str5+ shooting to kill him early. Melee him early will be impossible since he should, can, and will deep-strike in the hardest-to-reach location possible. A competitive Tournament-level player can keep that guy alive more than easily.

[Circus Nurgling]

Epi lists are hardly broken- just kill him early. It isn't that hard (unless he is in a bastion). The entire strategy revolves around a single character. He can't even go to ground if he gets in a tough spot. Just hammer Epi's unit and kite the rest of the army and it will be fine.

Harder said than done. Epidemius is an Independent Character, attached to a Unit which is nearly impossible to remove through shooting. T5 5++ FnP; you'll need absolutely massive amounts of Str5+ shooting to kill him early. Melee him early will be impossible since he should, can, and will deep-strike in the hardest-to-reach location possible. A competitive Tournament-level player can keep that guy alive more than easily.

 

Exactly. Tarpit with nurglings, bubblewrap with plaguebearers, (and maybe stick him in a defense line or something). I've only lost Epi once. That said, I rarely got to see decent results from the list before allies (though I did get a win against Orks in a GW tourney once, which was cool), and when we got allies I thought it would be a different story, but it's still quite difficult to get a decent tally against MeQ (which is mostly what I play against).

[Brother Ambroz]

Also might be fun to use MoN spawns too with all of their attacks, wounds and speed. They'd be wicked once the tally starts going up.

[Azekai]

MEQ is an important part of the equation- the tally is easy to rack up against horde armies, and much more difficult to do against elite armies; which is another reason why GKs are a tallyman list's kryptonite (unless it is a henchman list, lol).

 

That said, I do find it funny that people that play BA and IG are complaining about chaos, of all things. :rolleyes:

[daboarder]

so im sure a lot of people have thought about taking epidemius with a typhus list to benefit from his tally. i played a couple of games with this today and i have some thoughts.

 

firstly once the tally got high it was insane. i had 40 plague bearers and 3 nurgle mutilators on the field all of them with 3+ FNP, 2+ poisoned and ignoring armour saves.

 

 

Well if your actually talking about the Tally and Mutilators (cc oblits) then you we're cheating.

 

only models that already HAD FNP get the 3+ version.

 

and I second the motion that GK's screw the tally man over, to few bodies to rack the count.

 

A good tally list has a large core of plague marines, more daemon support than most people actually take and typhus to maximise the benefit gained by the tally, anything else isn't really making it as effective as you can. though taking oblits can be a good idea so that the whole game doesn't hinge on epidemius.

[Circus Nurgling]

so im sure a lot of people have thought about taking epidemius with a typhus list to benefit from his tally. i played a couple of games with this today and i have some thoughts.

 

firstly once the tally got high it was insane. i had 40 plague bearers and 3 nurgle mutilators on the field all of them with 3+ FNP, 2+ poisoned and ignoring armour saves.

 

 

Well if your actually talking about the Tally and Mutilators (cc oblits) then you we're cheating.

 

only models that already HAD FNP get the 3+ version.

 

True.

[Azekai]

so im sure a lot of people have thought about taking epidemius with a typhus list to benefit from his tally. i played a couple of games with this today and i have some thoughts.

 

firstly once the tally got high it was insane. i had 40 plague bearers and 3 nurgle mutilators on the field all of them with 3+ FNP, 2+ poisoned and ignoring armour saves.

 

 

Well if your actually talking about the Tally and Mutilators (cc oblits) then you we're cheating.

 

only models that already HAD FNP get the 3+ version.

 

and I second the motion that GK's screw the tally man over, to few bodies to rack the count.

 

A good tally list has a large core of plague marines, more daemon support than most people actually take and typhus to maximise the benefit gained by the tally, anything else isn't really making it as effective as you can. though taking oblits can be a good idea so that the whole game doesn't hinge on epidemius.

 

Yes, I would agree that Epi is broken if he conferred 3+ FnP onto any Nurgle unit. Heh, unbeatable cultist blobs everywhere! (shudder)

I am actually thinking about fielding an Epi list in November at a local tourney. :)

Based off this thread I am not sure whether to bring along a bastion to cower in . . .

[Circus Nurgling]

[off topic] What tourney is this you speak of, Whythre? Points? (you can pm me so as to not muck up the thread)

[shaun03]

Hi,

 

I don't take typhus with epi, often once in a while. IMO he is not need to make the list work well.

9 obli is nasty, I never done that one I normally take 3 just max kill count quickly.

I also take havocs, because the normal stay in the rear, they can keep a close eye on epi. If some Ds close to him they dealing with there firepower, than what's left has chew thou the nurgkibg and PB. Before killing him.

Not a fan of buying terrain for my list.

 

I run 5 sq of PM and a small amount of Deamons. Mix of x2 meltagun x2 plasma and dule flames for lord to go in.

Lord on palanquin with black mace. ( but starting to feel this might fail when I bring it to touramenrts)

 

Any how I posted the list I use most often. But no means is perfect, just sharing what has work for me so far, but needs some help to make more competeive.

[Kelanen]

I play almost exclusively against MEQ and have no problem hitting the top of the tally chart. Approx 60% on turn 1, and the remainder by turn 2.

 

Blight Drones, Nurgle Oblits, Nurgle Havocs, a few PM Plasma pot-shots... I run Typhus, have never found the need to pull the Cultist/Quad-gun trick, and the tally is pretty much always full before the Destroyer hive goes off, but they are still other options in your armoury.

 

I'm very much an ethical WAAC player, and Epi/CSM is a *very* solid list. Competent lists and play can keep Epi alive plenty long enough in most cases. Your bigger problem is the 11% chance of him not arriving until turn 3 or more, but the rest of the list is very competent power build stuff in it's own right. The Epi list doesn't play bad stuff to get it's trick going, there's basically no overhead bar Epidemius himself, and he pays for himself in spades most games.

[dreyonar]

so im sure a lot of people have thought about taking epidemius with a typhus list to benefit from his tally. i played a couple of games with this today and i have some thoughts.

 

firstly once the tally got high it was insane. i had 40 plague bearers and 3 nurgle mutilators on the field all of them with 3+ FNP, 2+ poisoned and ignoring armour saves.

 

 

Well if your actually talking about the Tally and Mutilators (cc oblits) then you we're cheating.

 

only models that already HAD FNP get the 3+ version.

 

and I second the motion that GK's screw the tally man over, to few bodies to rack the count.

 

A good tally list has a large core of plague marines, more daemon support than most people actually take and typhus to maximise the benefit gained by the tally, anything else isn't really making it as effective as you can. though taking oblits can be a good idea so that the whole game doesn't hinge on epidemius.

 

when you make cultists zombie the don't have the mark of nurgle so they don't benefit from the tally

[Kelanen]

when you make cultists zombie the don't have the mark of nurgle so they don't benefit from the tally

 

Correct.

 

It's ironic, but Plague Zombies are not a Nurgle unit.

[Barzyn]

what pts value would you do a tally list at? i was thinking 1500 or 1750 but how would you design it though. i want to use typhus and epi but what to put in for the make up of the army i don't know though, so any advice for a noob?

[Azekai]

Lots of Plague Marines and Plague Bearers- they score and are very nasty when the tally gets up and running. You also want to field some really killy units, something with the MoN that will rack up the body count fast. Havoks, Oblits, and Daemon Princes do an admirable job. Bikes are also good in general.

 

Since you can't field vehicles with the MoN, I would not bother with them. I would also not bother getting Nurgle heralds, beasts of Nurgle, or Great Unclean Ones. Heralds and beasts are not capable of killing much, and even if the GUO kills things and helps the tally, they hardly benefit from the tally's bonuses (they already ignore armor and wound on a 2+). Nurglings are situational- they are not scoring, but they can be surprisingly destructive with a full tally.

[Barzyn]

actually your partly right about vehicles, regular vehicles can't take MoN but the chaos bikers can, but my problem with the lists i try to desigh for tally list lack armor penetration. i don't know what to swap in for tally pts and what to swap in for armor pen especially if its like a 1500 to 1750 pt game. i want at least 30 plague bearers i could just run with one squad of 10 - 14 plague marines, a squad of terminators, other than that not sure what else to adds, maybe some bikers to do some dmg with armor pen, possbily mutilators or obliterators to help with armor pen or for close combat purposes

[Azekai]

actually your partly right about vehicles, regular vehicles can't take MoN but the chaos bikers can, but my problem with the lists i try to desigh for tally list lack armor penetration. i don't know what to swap in for tally pts and what to swap in for armor pen especially if its like a 1500 to 1750 pt game. i want at least 30 plague bearers i could just run with one squad of 10 - 14 plague marines, a squad of terminators, other than that not sure what else to adds, maybe some bikers to do some dmg with armor pen, possbily mutilators or obliterators to help with armor pen or for close combat purposes

Bikes technically are not vehicles, which is why I addressed them separately. For some reason our overlords at GW have seen fit to not give anything with an AV value access to marks.

 

Nurgle oblits or havoks are ideal for destroying armor. I would caution against using Mutilators, even when they have Nurgle marks in a tally list. They do not benefit much from the tally, and with slow n' purposeful, they make for poor assault specialists. Nurgle termies tend to serve the same purpose but do the job more effectively.

[Circus Nurgling]

actually your partly right about vehicles, regular vehicles can't take MoN but the chaos bikers can, but my problem with the lists i try to desigh for tally list lack armor penetration. i don't know what to swap in for tally pts and what to swap in for armor pen especially if its like a 1500 to 1750 pt game. i want at least 30 plague bearers i could just run with one squad of 10 - 14 plague marines, a squad of terminators, other than that not sure what else to adds, maybe some bikers to do some dmg with armor pen, possbily mutilators or obliterators to help with armor pen or for close combat purposes

Bikes technically are not vehicles, which is why I addressed them separately. For some reason our overlords at GW have seen fit to not give anything with an AV value access to marks.

 

Nurgle oblits or havoks are ideal for destroying armor. I would caution against using Mutilators, even when they have Nurgle marks in a tally list. They do not benefit much from the tally, and with slow n' purposeful, they make for poor assault specialists. Nurgle termies tend to serve the same purpose but do the job more effectively.

 

Yeah and I was really really looking forward to nurgle marked dreadnoughts, too.

 

For armor pen with tally lists, we got a nice buff there. Nurgle Bikers. 118 points for 2 melta, 1 combi-melta, MoN on 3 bikes. 2 of those will destroy any major armor threats. AV12-13, take 1-2 squads of nurgle havocs with 4 AC (or even lascannon or ML if you have the points) and quadgun in a defense line. Armor pen problem solved. Outside of that, add in 2 winged nurgle DPs from the daemons codex for vehicle and MC hunting. Obliterators, too. Seems like plenty of armor pen options, to me. Mutilators seem cool on the surface, and even fluffy for a nurgly monster list, but they suck real hard in practice. Skip 'em except for the fun games with beer and pretzels.

[Brother Ambroz]

Quickest way I think to rack up kills would be MoN oblits. Just PC, plasma rifle, heavy flamer your way through a squad or two of whatever and you'll rack up the kills quickly. MoN spawns would seem pretty good too once you get to the ignore armor part.