Is there a general consensus on how Magma Cutters work?

[space wolf]

There seems to be two schools of thought on this one:

 

1: If you hit with at least one attack you get one other attack. If you hit with all attacks you get 2 total additional attacks.

 

2: If you hit with at least one attack you get another attack for each magmacutter. If you hit with all attacks you get 2 total additional attacks for each magma cutter equipped.

 

Now, I'm inclined to agree with option 1, but others have argued option 2. Is there a general consensus on how this works?

 

And yes, I plan on using a maulerfiend, REGARDLESS of how bad they are. So I would appreciate it if posters would refrain from snarky comments about its usefulness...

[King Willy]

It specifically says, if it hits with one attack you make an additional attack for one of the magma cutters, if you hit with all you also make another attack but with both the magma cutters gaining one attack with each magma cutter.

 

They are two weapons treated as one.

 

There should be no contest which side is right if you read the rules.

[Payce]

Rule of thumb;

 

You get either 0 extra attacks (for no hits), 2 extra attacks (for some hits), or 4 extra attacks (for all hits). Never 1 or 3.

[space wolf]

See, this is what I mean. It seems I've just gotten two different answers...unless I'm just retarded.

[sp4rky]

EDIT: Get ready for a third answer!

 

 

I see the dilemma. This is what I've worked out:

 

Yes, the Maulerfiend has 2 Magma Cutters. The Magma Cutters rule, however, says that he makes an addition attack with 1 of his Cutters. So if your 'Fiend makes one hit then he gets one bonus hit with a single Cutter.

 

What now looks confusing is that if he hits with all of his attacks he makes 2 bonus attacks with both Cutters (so does this mean he now makes 4 bonus attacks, 2 with each Magma Cutter????)

[King Willy]

You only get 1 or two or none.

It isn't a melee weapon because it not only attacks out of sequence, since unwieldy doesn't work with walkers, but also doesn't have the melee rule, so you don't get extra attacks for two close combat weapons.

 

If you roll at least 1 hit, not for every one hit, you get to make the extra attack with ONE of your magma cutters, getting two is still only AT LEAST 1, so it still activates the one magma cutter.

If it hits with all 4 of it's attacks on the charge you gain an extra two hits, which is one for each magma cutter, the implication of it getting two comes from the fact it's telling you, your using the magma cutters attack profile.

[Xenith]

One hit = 1 attack from one cutter. All hits = 2 bonus attacks from cutters. That's what is written.

 

There are two cutters in case of weapons destroyed results. 2 powerfists, 2 cutters.

[space wolf]

You only get 1 or two or none.

It isn't a melee weapon because it not only attacks out of sequence, since unwieldy doesn't work with walkers, but also doesn't have the melee rule, so you don't get extra attacks for two close combat weapons.

 

If you roll at least 1 hit, not for every one hit, you get to make the extra attack with ONE of your magma cutters, getting two is still only AT LEAST 1, so it still activates the one magma cutter.

If it hits with all 4 of it's attacks on the charge you gain an extra two hits, which is one for each magma cutter, the implication of it getting two comes from the fact it's telling you, your using the magma cutters attack profile.

 

That is indeed how I interpreted it, but as there is some disagreement, that lead me to make this post.

[--eFTy-->]

The rule doesn't say "it makes 2 attacks with each of its magma cutters", so it's either none, 1 or 2 extra attacks, depending on the number of hits. And from the wording, it doesn't need to have both cutters still functional to make the two attacks.

[King Willy]

Yeah I think your just meant to treat it as a plural name for the singular weapon system, of course thats getting into RAI territory which can be very muddy waters.

 

Magma Cutters should have been stated to be a singular weapon but hay it's just people snooping for loopholes who argue it.

[totgeboren]

Lets not kid ourselves here, if we look at the model, and then the rules, it's fairly obvious what rules are trying to represent. It has a single Magma Cutter under each arm, and for each arm that hits, it gets to fire one of the magma cutters. However, as it can get an extra attack from assaulting, the rules had to be amended slightly to not allow more than two magma cutters to be fired per cc phase (as it only has two), and that that amendment means it can lose one cc arm and still fire both the cutters (even though it has lost one), provided it hits with both its attacks.

 

The rules are clumsily written, but to me at least it is apparent what the author was trying to say.

[GreyCrow]

I'm currently thinking about making a Chaos force, and I'm really liking the Maulerfiend, but I'd appreciate if someone could clarify that rule for me.

 

What I understood is that the Maulerfiend has got "2 Magma Cutters" on his profile, rather than having "Magma Cutters". The Vehicle Equipment entry lists "Magma Cutters" and not "Magma Cutter", so 2 Magma Cutters to me means 2 x Magma Cutters. Hence applying the effect twice.

To me it looks like it'll operate like this :

- No hit : 0 extra Magma Cutters hits

- 1 or more hit : 2 extra Magma Cutters hits (1 for each Magma Cutters)

- All hits : 4 extra Magma Cutters hits (2 for each Magma Cutters)

 

Unless I'm mistaken, and the 2 Magma Cutters count as 1 system in total...

 

With the Maulerfiend having a total maximum of 4 attacks (2 base, +1 for 2 specialist weapons, +1 for the charge). Sorry to necro that thread, but the FAQ for 7th edition has nothing about the Maulerfiend :/

[Sception]

By my reading, it's 0, 1, or 2. 'magma cutters' is one thing.

 

This is in direct contrast to the tendrils, which it gets two 'sets' of, and the benefits of which explicitly stack 'per set'.

[RolandTHTG]

By my reading, it's 0, 1, or 2. 'magma cutters' is one thing.

 

This is in direct contrast to the tendrils, which it gets two 'sets' of, and the benefits of which explicitly stack 'per set'.

This. The other thing to note is that the rule says "a model previously hit", so you only get them if one of your powerfists failled to hit its target.