sunspear Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I am just reading through the new codex for the first time and as I have been out of the game for a while so excuse me if this is a "common knowledge" thing now but I was just curious if more players are going with cult troops or marked troops? Is there a big difference? What are your thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 So far, neither. I think I'd rather have an extra unit in my army, rather than upgrade my units to have a mark or opt for more expensive cult units. In game experience could easily change my opinion, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 It all depends on your type of list. Everything apart from Thousand Sons are ca. equally good and well balanced, different units just works better in different situations. Again, this is something positive. This is not the Gav dex (lest you were lured into thinking that if you were fool enough to read the complaint thread, I very much in retrospect lament creating it, as it did not confine the worst whiners to that thread at all:/) where list building is for sheep and don`t take brains. With marks being permanent and non-snipable, there are many interesting set ups that can indeed be very much worth the point (this also includes the cults). For marked units, the cheap 17 points Nurgle veteran Berserker is so far my fav. A configuration which may well be worth the points. Obviously plague marine units which are more expensive, a bit tougher, poisoned but with very low Init, serves an entirely different purpose to the unit I mentioned. No such unit was previously possible in the Gav dex, and this just shows how much more variety we have suddenly gained if we care to use our minds and brain power. Just use your immagination and be careful with the upgrades as it can end up costing a lot, and ignore the Ward-whiners who hoped for "instant Win" buttons with retarded characters and ludicrously imbalanced units and Wünder Waffen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 17 points Nurgle veteran Berserker Do you just have a different book from us? Is that why we can't see eye to eye on anything? :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Malisteen, I think he means that you can take a CSM, kit him out for assault CC with a bp and ccw and give him a MoN. Not take a Khorne Berzerker and give him a MoN like you were thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 17 points Nurgle veteran Berserker Do you just have a different book from us? Is that why we can't see eye to eye on anything? What Kol said. Was not aware that we can`t see eye to eye on anything though :P Ps. Maybe you should actually read my posts before being snarky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Sorry, failed attempt at humor, will edit to add smiley tongue face. --------------- edit: As for not seeing eye to eye... You know what? That part works better as a private message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Sorry, failed attempt at humor, will edit to add smiley tongue face...... As for seeing eye to eye, when you deliberately mischaracterize any criticism of the new book as "Ward-whiners who hoped for 'instant Win' buttons with retarded characters and ludicrously imbalanced units and Wünder Waffen", it becomes hard for me as a player who has several complaints about the new book, even if I like it overall, to respond with any sort of reasonable dialog. I mean, how would you react if I or Jeske or Agent Purple ended a post in a new thread with an off hand comment like "just ignore the brainwashed Games Workshop apologists and corporate shills who couldn't form an independent thought or honest critical evaluation if their lives depended on it"? Wouldn't be very classy, would it? There was no arguments about the new codex in this thread until you baited one. And then you wonder why your quarantine thread didn't work out. More like you misunderstood, but fine, if you want to call it a bad attempt of humour I dont really mind. I think my statement was very accurate (have you some how missed these people?) Ironically, this is my point: "couldn't form an independent thought or honest critical evaluation" (many here seemingly don`t even try) The whining is all over the place in case you didn`t see, and it gets damn tedious when it overshadows everything else. Some of it is accurate but much of it is not. But its everywhere. Makes you wonder if some of the people with the most dramatic complaints have even read the codex properly (and no, I am not thinking about you, or those with actual serious complaints). I have read a lot of reviews on this codex written by tournament players, and none of them have been anything like the "Sky is falling" crap we often see here. People are quick to criticise, but many don`t take an indept look on what we actually have here. Many don`t even try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 The whining is all over the place in case you didn`t see, and it gets damn tedious when it overshadows everything else. So why are you deliberately baiting it in a thread that didn't have it already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 The whining is all over the place in case you didn`t see, and it gets damn tedious when it overshadows everything else. So why are you deliberately baiting it in a thread that didn't have it already? My mistake. I wanted to say what I wanted to say concerning this matter, which was that it wasn`t all bad, while at the same time way better than the unreasonable critiscism it has recieved by some. When you read so much plain ludicrous :P, it`s easy to be be lured into wanting to make a counter attack. I should in retrospect not have mentioned that, your right. I have no problems admitting that. Shall we go back to the units now ? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I go with cult troops, entirely for fluff reasons. I play Thousand Sons, so I use Thousand Sons even if they are inefficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I go with cult troops, entirely for fluff reasons. I play Thousand Sons, so I use Thousand Sons even if they are inefficient. I hope I can show your resolve when it comes time to add some possessed to my Black Legion! As long as you're playing in a casual environment, a few inefficient choices in your army shouldn't hurt too much. While sons are probably the worst of our power armored troop options, point for point, it's not like they're useless once you get them to the table. Cheap cultist bubble wraps will keep them out of melee, and their champion's pretty decent in the obligatory challenges when and if you do get caught up in close combat. And tzeentch daemon allies can put some early pressure on enemy units that have significant small arms fire - the kind that are the bane of your sons squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunspear Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 I ask only because I like to write a bit of background for my war bands. I know some others don't, but I am going with a barbarian theme. If, for instance the black legion happened upon R.E. Howard's Hyperboea and found Cimmerians and decided to recruit them. So I was looking at the MoK versus berserkers. I will just read through the codex a bit more and see what I think would be appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal.Lictor Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Ok, to get this thread back on track: Mark vs Cult To the OP, this depends. I REALLY like the base philosophy of our new dex; it's very malleable. Its this adaptability that fuels your question and I'll do my best to iron our my thoughts. I think taht cult marines are some of the best troops bar none. However, you have to have the appropriate Marked Lord to unlock them. All the cult troops are fearless, this is very important as our two nilla troops are not and dont have ATSKNF. (For this reason alone I think Cultists are for the most part an absolute waste of points). When you mark up your normal CSM squad you come pretty close to point cost for a cult marine. What are are not getting is the other stuff. Yes you can take Icon of vengance but my noise marines are stock unsnipable fearless and can take the Icon of E and get FNP. So let me break down the four cult troops as I see them for table top viability. Ill rank them, for my play style, from best to worst: Noise Marines: Alot of people have their panties all up in a bunch because there is a salvo unit with I5, stop crying you big babies. You grab an objective turn one and sit on it, shooting the unholy hell out of people. You buy the sonics, blastmaster....not so sure yet, thats 3 shots a guy. Make sure your champ has the siren, and have a guy with the Icon. Try moving these guys from an objective. Not going to happen. My 10 man unit staved off a 10 man RAS squad and then an attack by a biker squad....with 7 dudes left. These guys rock. You WILL get sonic overwatch shots and you will get 1-3 AP3 hits. Then most things will have to take a round of attacks before they can respond. You can also swap out the bolter and CC this unit up. 20 of them with a mounted CL outflanking some fools gun line...its lulz. Better in large numbers so your icon is wrapped and point cost is spread. Noise marines are the most diverse and adaptable unit of the 4. Plague Marines: Very close second for me. I think you will be seeing TONS of these guys with Epi ally. I think a 5 man with dual plasma is the way to go; 30 guys are like what 900 points? Thats a nice list right there. Super solid and straightforward unit. Like I said, be prepared to face these guys, because you will. Nids bware... 1K Sons: AP3 shots are nice, S and P not so much. A sorc for a comand guy, yes thank you. Again take these guys in 5 man units, maximizing the sorc out put. They also have an INV save. Zerk: Bottom of the barrel, but still a massively fun unit. Run these guys with alot of rhinos with dirge. Very straightforward, run up to the guy and cut the fool. They are my least fav for two reasons. One, CC is not all that in 6th ed. and two they are very much a one trick pony, and your opp dosnt have to wunder, "Hey what is he going to do with these guys?" You are gonna run them up, hope that you can take a few on the chin and then make him sad. Noise Marines do melee better. Sorry its true. They attack first and can have FNP. So thats my break down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I personally would lean towards the CSMs w/ MoK, as they have just as many attacks as the berzerkers, and their special weapons and the potential to have bolters as well makes them a lot more versatile. It's not completely one sided, as the berzerkers can have fearless and the icon of khorne, while CSMs have to pick one or the other. But the zerkers have +1 weapons skill. But the CSMs are cheaper. But but but. Like I said, I think I prefer the CSMs overall, but I don't think the berzerkers are terrible. I may not like them as much as I did when they had their +1 attack all the time, and got an extra point of initiative on the charge, and had more favorable transport rules, and didn't have to eat overwatch on the charge, or worry as much about defensive grenades... you know what, maybe berzerkers aren't so hot after all. But while these new berzerkers aren't the bee's knees, I don't think they're worthless, either, just don't take to many of them. Maybe go with some of each? Some cultists to represent chaos marauders, a couple units of CSMs, and a berzerker retinue for a lord? Then again, khorne lords are probably better off riding a bike & joining some badass khornate bikers. And there's always the stylish and intimidating Juggerlord w/ spawn. Just stick a chaos backpack on this guy, and maybe use unridden plastic daemon juggers as his spawn retinue? For the Cimmerian feel, make frequent use of fantasy bits and you won't go wrong, regardless of which units you use. Fantasy Marauders work well with IG catachan bits to make some hulking feral world cultists, and mixing fantasy chaos warrior and 40k marine bits can result in a pretty awesome space marine barbiarian look that I think would fit your idea well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attomsk Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 So far, neither. I think I'd rather have an extra unit in my army, rather than upgrade my units to have a mark or opt for more expensive cult units. In game experience could easily change my opinion, though. I'm with you on this one for now. Plan on running 30 unmarked CSM and 30 unmarked cultists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 So I was looking at the MoK versus berserkers. I will just read through the codex a bit more and see what I think would be appropriate. In a straight comparison between the two, it really comes down to the fact that Berserkers will be a superior dedicated HtH unit, if for no other reason than they have WS5 and are naturally fearless. Similar to the last codex, where Khorne CSMs come in is bringing special weapon support to what is primarily an assault based army (Khorne) and with the changes to 6th, it is more important to have access to strong shooting. You could do worse than going with a 1:1 mix of Berserkers and CSMs for troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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