Rune Priest Ridcully Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 You just swap it for the primaris, both are not that good, but that is the lore of Tzeentch. In my one game where I rolled on the table, I got an extra attack and metoric assault on an Asp. Sorcerer who killed tau in combat, he then got gunned down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hack n slash Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 My jugger lord(jugger, deamon axe,corruption)(runs in a bike unit) got preferred enemy from warlord, d3 rolls on mutation giving him +I, eternal warrior, and instant death attacks, he then killed a Sargent getting reroll failed saves shot another gained +1 save charged a pally unit killed them all bar the champ who killed the bike champion gods he was brutal. I've not had spawn yet or prince but it'll happen. I love the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 My jugger lord(jugger, deamon axe,corruption)(runs in a bike unit) got preferred enemy from warlord, d3 rolls on mutation giving him +I, eternal warrior, and instant death attacks, he then killed a Sargent getting reroll failed saves shot another gained +1 save charged a pally unit killed them all bar the champ who killed the bike champion gods he was brutal. I've not had spawn yet or prince but it'll happen. I love the table. Me too. Though I was reluctant upon initially hearing of a return to the original randomness of Chaos, I think it's been generally implemented very well. I'm currently embarking on a modelling project based upon the very concept: creating distinct Daemon Prince and Spawn models for each of my characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Do think the Gift of Mutation should have been free, as a part of the Champion of Chaos rule. 10 points hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Obviously spawndom/apothesis can be a bitch. However, I have been thinking, (not yet had apothesis happen to me) there are in fact some situations where apothesis is good, even if it an expensive lord exalts. I am pointing to late game here, where your character is very close to the enemy lines, and has taken maybe a few wounds. In fact, I can see expensive lords exalting (should be very bad in some situations) being a great thing in late game, if your far away from your own DZ. What happens then? You gain an extra unit, at full wounds who happen to be a beatstick. Sure, this is situational, but I just felt like illustrating a positive aspect. Also, I suspect you will find that your characters usually exalts late game anyway, and probably rarely in your own DZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I like the table overall. I've only got two minor complaints. The first is that 'dark apotheosis' can frequently be a downgrade for lords & sorcerers, or a death sentence if it happens in a crowded melee or right before an enemy shooting phase. Your lord turning into a prince mid game should be a moment of undiluted awesome, not a moment of heavily mitigated awesome. The second is that this chart rewards us for engaging in those challenges that the Champion of Chaos rule forces on us, but what we don't have is a significant edge in those challenges to begin with. Fantasy chaos has a similar gimmick, but their champions fight like the heroes of other factions, and their heroes are a clear step above, hanging out with the likes of vampire lords. Chaos champions in 40k are little different from any other marine faction's champs, our elite champions are frequently less badass as they don't get the extra attack, and our heroes are outclassed in challenges by other marine heroes with artificer armor & storm shields, let alone horrors like hive tyrants, greater daemons, or even just Necron lords with Mind Shackles. These minor complaints take the shine off of what is otherwise a very fun aspect of the new chaos book. I still enjoy it overall, but to me the chaos boon table falls just shy of its awesome potential for these reasons. That 'close but not quite perfect' aspect of it really bothers me every time I look at it, in that kind of OCD way that if it were just bad I don't think it would. Like, warp talons? They're meh, and their blind rule is just bad, but it doesn't bother me the way it would if it were slmost-but-not-quite awesome, even if that still meant it was perfectly 'ok' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 The second is that this chart rewards us for engaging in those challenges that the Champion of Chaos rule forces on us, but what we don't have is a significant edge in those challenges to begin with. Fantasy chaos has a similar gimmick, but their champions fight like the heroes of other factions, and their heroes are a clear step above, hanging out with the likes of vampire lords. Chaos champions in 40k are little different from any other marine faction's champs, our elite champions are frequently less badass as they don't get the extra attack, and our heroes are outclassed in challenges by other marine heroes with artificer armor & storm shields, let alone horrors like hive tyrants, greater daemons, or even just Necron lords with Mind Shackles. While I agree with the rest, I do think we are at least as good as most of the other factions. Especially with our random table rolls. If you start getting good rolls (like Hack n Slash did earlier) then you easily outclass most other units. On the other hand it doesn't work alot of the time but we do have some pretty badass daemon weapons to even it out a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 The problem there is that you have to win the challenges first, and then if you're lucky, you'll get the tools you would have used to have an advantage in that challenge after. A lucky boon roll at the start of the game can help... but no, I would not in general say any of our champions have a serious edge on those of other melee-oriented marine factions, be they space wolves, blood angels, or grey knights. It's not a terrible situation. It's not like we're significantly worse then they are, either. I'd rather have chaos characters designed to actually be awesome in challenges to begin with so that we would want to issue challenges, rather than have normal champs who have to be forced into them by a special rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 True, winning challenges does have a major impact but you can gear our guys toward that. You can make a sort of challenge deathstar (in PA or TDA) with an IC or champion able to take on any sort of character. Or give them MoS to go first and LC/PW. I mean yeah we're not amazing that's for sure, but we're not bad either. It's a far better balanced dex than 5th editon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Fun times with a champion against n IG blob, hehe, picks them off one at a time and gets nastier and nastier all the time! ;) ...rolling the +1 save on my jugger lord made him extremely powerful though, best spent 10 points EVER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 My friend has had some fun with it. His Warpsmith kills Gabriel Seth, the gods decide it's an unworthy offering (11). The same Warpsmith kills a Cultist Champion, and the gods give him multiple multiple boons! (64 x2) Fickle indeed! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 The same Warpsmith kills a Cultist Champion, and the gods give him multiple multiple boons! (64 x2) Fickle indeed! :tu: Not fickle... One is a puny loyalist lap dog the other was Fredreick the destroyer of small fluffy things, chosen of *insert god here* and only 2 kills away from being a Daemon Prince himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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