When Did librarians come back?

[Billuriye]

On the subject of the "Why can the Wolves have Psykers and no one else" is that the Emperor pretty much made each legion too do a certain job...role...and we all know the "Job" of the Wolves were the executioners, which is said in one of the HH books, don't ask me too quote which one, as i cannot for the life of me remember.

 

But i do know that in Prospero Burns one of the Wolves state that people mistake what they do for Barbarism, they just win by ANY MEANS NECESSARY

(When they started using the weapons of the Quietude on the Quietude themselves, then swiching back too Bolters when the Quietude's armour was effective against Quietude weaponry.)

 

Which also ties into why the Big E allowed Russ to still use Psykers, because anyone stepped out of line, Russ was going too be the one sent too pull them into line, and Psykers are just another weapon that Russ will wield effectively.

 

But i think as the HH progress' more, i think we'll see the Emperor maybe over-rule the Eddict to combat the Daemons and such that start appearing with the Traitor armies.

 

What makes SW so special in that regard? If they are able to causally weaponize psyk without side effects, why aren't their methods disseminated throught the Astartes legions instead of outright banning Librarians?

[KarkassBC]

On the subject of the "Why can the Wolves have Psykers and no one else" is that the Emperor pretty much made each legion too do a certain job...role...and we all know the "Job" of the Wolves were the executioners, which is said in one of the HH books, don't ask me too quote which one, as i cannot for the life of me remember.

 

Again on the idea of the Wolves as Executioners and making a good job...

 

the attack on Prospero was against the less numerous Legion with the aid of Custodes and Sisters of Silence... and probably they would be wiped completely if Magnus gave the order to attack the fleet in space with the orbital weapons, ship and psykers powers.

 

They succeded only because Magnus allowed it

[Chronotonic]

Also when the wolves attack the 1k sons planet they did not use psykers they had the sisters with them...the only times they used pskyers was up to the judgement and afterwards they were not put back in rank and file like they should have been but thenthe wolves never really did rank and file anyway...

 

They kept higher ranks but as far as i remember after the judgement you did not really see them use their powers...

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

On the subject of the "Why can the Wolves have Psykers and no one else" is that the Emperor pretty much made each legion too do a certain job...role...and we all know the "Job" of the Wolves were the executioners, which is said in one of the HH books, don't ask me too quote which one, as i cannot for the life of me remember.

 

Again on the idea of the Wolves as Executioners and making a good job...

 

the attack on Prospero was against the less numerous Legion with the aid of Custodes and Sisters of Silence... and probably they would be wiped completely if Magnus gave the order to attack the fleet in space with the orbital weapons, ship and psykers powers.

 

They succeded only because Magnus allowed it

 

I would point out that the Wolves assault on Prospero was supposed to be a suprise, but Magnus's daemon ally (yes, his ally because he was a traitor) warned him of it. If he wasnt forwarned, i believe the Wolves would have taken the planet and maybe even himself (if he wasnt forwarned, he would have reacted a bit differently in my opinion)

 

and yes, the Thousand Sons fought like Marines defending their homeworld and genetic father should have. thats no slight on them. Now add in the Daemonic abilities and ANY attackers would have been seriously mauled. The restraint Magnus showed is what allowed the Wolves to come through the fight with the numbers they still had. remember, both Legions were supposed to destroy the other here, but the Wolves are combat capable enough to continue the Heresy and then lead the Scouring (alongside the Ultramarines)

 

@raleii: the Wolves believe themselves to be the Emperer's Executioners, but until the Emperor himself says it its only a belief.

 

WLK

[KarkassBC]

On the subject of the "Why can the Wolves have Psykers and no one else" is that the Emperor pretty much made each legion too do a certain job...role...and we all know the "Job" of the Wolves were the executioners, which is said in one of the HH books, don't ask me too quote which one, as i cannot for the life of me remember.

 

Again on the idea of the Wolves as Executioners and making a good job...

 

the attack on Prospero was against the less numerous Legion with the aid of Custodes and Sisters of Silence... and probably they would be wiped completely if Magnus gave the order to attack the fleet in space with the orbital weapons, ship and psykers powers.

 

They succeded only because Magnus allowed it

 

I would point out that the Wolves assault on Prospero was supposed to be a suprise, but Magnus's daemon ally (yes, his ally because he was a traitor) warned him of it. If he wasnt forwarned, i believe the Wolves would have taken the planet and maybe even himself (if he wasnt forwarned, he would have reacted a bit differently in my opinion)

 

and yes, the Thousand Sons fought like Marines defending their homeworld and genetic father should have. thats no slight on them. Now add in the Daemonic abilities and ANY attackers would have been seriously mauled. The restraint Magnus showed is what allowed the Wolves to come through the fight with the numbers they still had. remember, both Legions were supposed to destroy the other here, but the Wolves are combat capable enough to continue the Heresy and then lead the Scouring (alongside the Ultramarines)

 

@raleii: the Wolves believe themselves to be the Emperer's Executioners, but until the Emperor himself says it its only a belief.

 

WLK

 

Magnus not only saw in advance the arrival of the Space Wolves fleet but also psy-covered it to avoid the knowledge between his marines (or the planetary defence force)

 

The original plan of Horus was the destruction of both Legions not only the Thousand Sons... if the Legions were not equal this project was completely impossible... Horus planned in advance the move so he evaluated correctly the combat skills of each Legions...

 

Only for the decisions of Magnus, the Wolves won without be destroyed at the same time.

 

If the Emperor wanted the purge of TS and planned the use of SW as executioners, he would sent a larger fleet, maybe the aid of another Legion (why not the Death Guards, the other Legion fearful of sorcery powers).

 

The Emperor sent the Wolves Fleet with the idea to not completely trust Magnus and his Sons, but not thinking a large battle will happen... he thought for Russ to simply press the request to coming to Terra with much more power than a simpler envoy (the group of Space Wolves on Aghoru, before Shrike compliance, requested for many months the aid of TS, but Magnus continued to deny every requests following a personal objective).

[MadDoc]

What makes SW so special in that regard? If they are able to causally weaponize psyk without side effects, why aren't their methods disseminated throught the Astartes legions instead of outright banning Librarians?

Nothing makes them more special in that regard. When Raleii said this...

Which also ties into why the Big E allowed Russ to still use Psykers, because anyone stepped out of line, Russ was going too be the one sent too pull them into line, and Psykers are just another weapon that Russ will wield effectively.

...he was presenting a fan theory/assumption/imaginings as if they had somehow been confirmed as fact. They have not.

[Chaplain ChonkE]

So why isnt Russ sent to "cow" the Word Bearers instead of Guilliman if he is the leader of the hard men who scare the hard men? Look, I love the Wolves but the executioner thing seems to be more bluff and bluster than anything credible. No one knows what happened to the disappeared Legions/Primarchs. WBs speculate they got folded into the Ultras. Wolves take credit for themselves. Eldrad could probably step out of the woodwork and say he trapped them in his Rubick's Cube of Destiny. I love the Wolves, they were my first loyalist army, but the executioner's comment in PB was given by a character who knew Kasper Hawser was a spy and throughout the novel the Wolves make sure that the Thousand Sons (Chaos but they didnt know that) had reason to fear the Wolves for their prowess, their savagery and single mindedness. It seems like the Wolves are trying to enhance this reputation with a little bluff or misinformation saying "Hey, we are the guys who kill Space Marines. ALL THE TIME!" *flexing muscles and waving chainsword for dramatic effect* While I am not going to call this a 'executioner's tale' a Mjod story, remember that 'Mjod stories' arent unheard of in the Rout and Hawser is even warned to be careful when taking the accounts to try and sift the real from the fantasized. It just seems like a really good way to play a little psychological warfare against a potential adversary and warn Thousand Sons away from further meddling with the Wolves' legion. The Thousand Sons play their game, the Rout plays theirs.

[Deathwatch/Grey knight]

back to other topic about human psykers being weak is a load crap excuse my language

 

even non chaos psyker can have incredible power i remember one crushed a chaos imperator and lived and forgot his name

[Avon Rekaes]

Hate to say it, but I side with the Wolves on this one. Please bear with me as I quote the oft-quoted edict. Emphasis mine.

 

Henceforth, it is my will that no Legion will maintain a Librarius department. All of its warriors and instructors must be returned to the battle companies and never again employ psychic powers.

 

Let's extrapolate that.

 

"The Librarius Department's warriors must never again employ psychic powers."

 

This edict specifically applies only to Astartes of a legion's the Librarius department... should they have one.

 

The Rune Priests ARE exempt, because they are not a Libarius Department. AND NO THIS IS NOT JUST A NAME CHANGE.

 

The Rune Priests methods of using psychic powers were not the same as the Librarius method. The method of psychic abilities employed by the Rune Priests was not on trial, in the new fluff. The Librarius Department's methods were developed and taught by Mangus's Thousand Sons, and it was THEIR METHOD that was on trial.

 

Again, the edict is NOT "All astartes may not use psychic powers" it's "All Astartes formerly of the Libarius Department may not use psychic powers."

 

Obstensibly, if Russ wanted to start his own inter-Legion psyker program based on the teachings of Rune Priests, he could have. Since Rune Priests never employed Librarius methods.

[Kol Saresk]

Actually Magnus, Khan and Sanguinius developed the Librarius project. Which mean not one, but three Primarchs and Legions are involved. Three ways of thinking are involved. We also see three different examples of Librarians in 40k, excluding the Rune Priests. There are the Thousand Sons whose methods we know very well. There is also the Dark Angels Librarian from "Descent of Angels" and "Fallen Angels"(sorry do 't have my books on me) who used only his psychic power of warp sight and I guess warp transitioning would be the best way to describe his other ability to "tune" into the warp and move through solid objects. But those were all his natural abilities. And then there's the Alpha Legion Librarians who used telepathy and biomancy to create alter-egos for the operatives. So there are three unique ways that Librarians used their abilities. Also, let's not forget that the White Scars psykers were called Stormseers. They were never described as being Librarians and were never described as being part of a Librarius, despite their Primarch's involvement in the creation of the Librarius department. Also, just going by the name, I'd wager that the Stormseers are also shamans, much like the Rune Priests. So there is more than "one method" to how the Librarius program was titled amongst the Legions and how the Librarians in each Legion used their powers. The only one who knows which specific Legions' psykers were exempted is the Emperor and until something comes out that he did not think of the Rune Priests as part of the Librarius program, the only definite that can come from that statement is the banning of all powers.

 

So what the argument really comes down to is whether or not the Emperor considered the Rune Priests as part of his proclamation as we have at least three Legions other than the Space Wolves and Thousand Sons who continued to use their psykers after the Edict. And those Legions are the Word Bearers(Battle for the Abyss), the Dark Angels(Fallen Angels), and the Alpha Legion(Deliverance Lost). Note, sources are for examples or references to the Edict being broken after the Edict but before the Heresy broke out.

[KarkassBC]

Hate to say it, but I side with the Wolves on this one. Please bear with me as I quote the oft-quoted edict. Emphasis mine.

 

Henceforth, it is my will that no Legion will maintain a Librarius department. All of its warriors and instructors must be returned to the battle companies and never again employ psychic powers.

 

Let's extrapolate that.

 

"The Librarius Department's warriors must never again employ psychic powers."

 

This edict specifically applies only to Astartes of a legion's the Librarius department... should they have one.

 

The Rune Priests ARE exempt, because they are not a Libarius Department. AND NO THIS IS NOT JUST A NAME CHANGE.

 

The Rune Priests methods of using psychic powers were not the same as the Librarius method. The method of psychic abilities employed by the Rune Priests was not on trial, in the new fluff. The Librarius Department's methods were developed and taught by Mangus's Thousand Sons, and it was THEIR METHOD that was on trial.

 

Again, the edict is NOT "All astartes may not use psychic powers" it's "All Astartes formerly of the Libarius Department may not use psychic powers."

 

Obstensibly, if Russ wanted to start his own inter-Legion psyker program based on the teachings of Rune Priests, he could have. Since Rune Priests never employed Librarius methods.

 

The Librarius was developed jointly with White Scars and Blood Angels psykers.

 

About the "only from the Librarius" give me the idea that every marines not previously enlisted on the group can use the powers without problem... so there would be no problem at all for the new recruits...

 

no the decree was for every Astartes inside a Librarian unit or outside.

 

The Nikaea Council was declared by the Emperor only because Russ vehemently started to request it... moreover one of the points used for his angrily description was the reappearing of the flesh curse... without thinking the flesh curse afflicted the Thousand Sons much more in the period of time before the Librarian creation and even the founding of Magnus himself...

[Avon Rekaes]

no the decree was for every Astartes inside a Librarian unit or outside.

 

Except it wasn't. The Emperor said "it's warriors and instructors", referring to each Legion's librarius department. "it's warriors and instructors" is the subject of the decree, and it must referr only to Librarius Department astartes, because the decree is also to "return to their battle companies". Every Astartes of every Legion can't "return to their battle companies" that they're already in.

 

The Edict was only for, and limited to, the Librarium Department's "warriors and instructors", by a strict reading of the decree using english grammar.

 

Now, whether the Rune Priests "counted" as a Librarium Department in the Emperor's eyes is entirely up for discussion, I'll admit, but it doesn't seem likely to me, in my opinion, as the Rune Priests had no connection to the inter-legion psyker program started by Magnus, Sanguineus, and Khan. Also, the presence of the Blood Angels and White Scars methods in the Librarium wouldn't mitigate the fears of the Thousand Son's methods tainting the entire program.

 

To use a hyperbolic example, if you start teaching shamans to summon demons, then your shamans are demon-summoners now, regardless of their shamanistic origins.

[Avon Rekaes]

(Apologies for the double-post. Browser trouble.)

[Kol Saresk]

Except that some Librarians were already assigned to battle companies and I can think of at least one Librarian who was never a part of a battle company because he went straight from initiate to Librarian. Also, some shamanistic traditions are believed to have been forms of daemonancy but the users are still called shamans. And if Shamans are excluded from the Edict, then Stormseers should still be good. No one disagrees that Wolf Priests, Redemptors, Iron Fathers, Forge Fathers and Chaplains, while different in methods all serve the same purpose. But as soon as psykers are involved, everyone is looking into every excuse in the book for justification. The reality is that until fluff is written that says the Emperor meant "Everyone but Space Wolves." when he talks about the Librarius program, it can go either way with no clear definition. But simply arguing semantics does nothing and saying "This style is different from that style" when the latter "style" is actually a collection of multiple styles, some which may end up being similar to the former and therefore have no clear contrast.

[Avon Rekaes]

Except Stormseers started incorporating practices from the Blood Angels and Thousand Son's psykers too, didn't they? Or am I misinterpreting the Librarium program as being more unified than it was?

 

And forgive me for arguing semantics, but I felt it necessary to point out the difference between exactly what was said and what people are inferring. This is in regards to a few pages back when there was a debate using the "never again use psychic powers" line to indicate it was all astartes psykers everywhere. Just pointing out that the "all astartes psykers everywhere" is an inferrence, and not what was stated by Big E.

 

Now, you may be right. What you're inferring may have been what Big E was implying.

 

But it's not what he said.

 

What he said, of course, is not bulletproof as you point out. What he said is that all Librarium Department warriors and instructors return to their battle companies, but as you point out, there was one and possibly more librarians that never had a battle company assignment. So clearly the Big E was implying more than he said, most likely "and give new assignments to Lib. Dept. warriors and instructors that never belonged to a battle-company. And Reassign Lib. Dept. warriors and instructors already assigned to a battle company back into standard squad formations." I say "most likely", because this makes the most sense considering the subject of the Big E's decree. If you think he's implying a different subject than he's talking about altogther, then that's a very big assumption on your part. It would be like me stating "My ball is blue.", and suddenly coming to the understanding that I implied "All balls are blue.".

 

But, ultimately, yes there is more than is being implied than what is said. Therefore, what anyone infers from this quote is open to debate. This includes my inferrence that Rune Priests are not part of this "Librarium Department". I have no more proof for my inferrence than you do yours.

 

Personally, I feel that my inferrence is closer to what was stated than yours, since White Scars, Blood Angels, and Thousand Sons joined together and started an inter-legion program, and therefore it must have been judged altogether based on the "weakest" (most dangerous/worrying) link among it. But that's all my opinion.

 

As for some legions breaking the Edict afterward, that has no bearing on any of my points. The Lion explicitly and clearly disobeyed the Nikean Edict and ordered his Librarian-trained psyker marines (He called them "Librarians", and I am inferring that this means they were formerly of the I Legion's Librarium Department) to break their Nikean Oaths.

[MadDoc]

Its interesting that there have been Heresy products released that reference all psyker's being banned within the Legions rather than just Librarians (its in at least one the dual release audios for starters)...

[Avon Rekaes]

Its interesting that there have been Heresy products released that reference all psyker's being banned within the Legions rather than just Librarians (its in at least one the dual release audios for starters)...

 

If that's true (I'm not doubting you, just making it clear I haven't seen the material myself), then all I have to say is that the author needs to be clearer and more careful with his english. Because that's not what was written.

[Kol Saresk]

A pacifist says all guns are bad. A 13 Banger from the 10th Mountain says a gun is only as good as the artillery crew manning it.

 

Notice the difference in the statements. When a civilian says guns, he thinks pistols, rifles, shotguns and automatic weapons. But every soldier I have met who is in an Artillery Battery means artillery piece when he says gun and uses the word "weapon" as a catch-all for every projectile weapon that is handheld. Both use the word "gun". But both have very drastic meanings for the same word. This applies to the word "Librarius" when it used by the Emperor. Problem is we don't know if the Emperor is using it as a specific a general adjective.

 

As far as the Stormseers methods, no one really knows. Haven't seen anything for it. Since the name was retained, I imagine that more than a few of their other traditions survived as well. The program as a general may have been an amalgalm rather than a "unification". There are still several methods being spread out between the Legions and I haven't seen anything that suggests that any of the practices were brought in from the outside. Either the practices of the Homeworld were adopted(Space Wolves, Thousand Sons) or were leftover traditions from the Legion's origins on Terra(Dark Angels).

[Kol Saresk]

On the note of the audio dramas for "A Thousand Sons" and "Prospero Burns", they were made like what, almost a year after the books were written and published? So it is possible that Graham McNeil used that chance to clarify himself since he most likely would have heard those concerns between the two releases.

[Avon Rekaes]

A pacifist says all guns are bad. A 13 Banger from the 10th Mountain says a gun is only as good as the artillery crew manning it.

 

Notice the difference in the statements. When a civilian says guns, he thinks pistols, rifles, shotguns and automatic weapons. But every soldier I have met who is in an Artillery Battery means artillery piece when he says gun and uses the word "weapon" as a catch-all for every projectile weapon that is handheld. Both use the word "gun". But both have very drastic meanings for the same word. This applies to the word "Librarius" when it used by the Emperor. Problem is we don't know if the Emperor is using it as a specific a general adjective.

 

Agreed on all accounts. We weren't given a first-person internal monologue about exactly what the Emperor was thinking, so we don't know what he meant to say, only what he did.

 

But as MadDog has informed us, looks like either the original author of the (retconned) Edict, or later authors in the HH series, weren't paying that close attention to what he said either.

[MadDoc]

Or, more likely IMO, the specific wording the Emperor used in a Thousand Sons wasn't the totality of the Edict just its initial pronouncement, the specifics of the Edict later being ratified/clarified and disseminated.

 

Edit - Just to be clear, McNeill wasn't the initial author of the "retconned" Edict, he was following the lead of Alan Merrett (GW's head of IP), as are/will be subsequent authors.

[Grimtooth]

To point out my continued support of the Wolves, with facts.

 

It was Magnus, Khan, and Sang that came together to form the Librarius Program. However in Prospero Burns when the author is explaining the Librarian Crisis, it is specifically stated that it was instructors FROM the Thousand Sons that were sent out to form Librariums within the other Legions.

 

This would include the White Scars Legion thus "tainting" their previously innocent Stormseers. If you read the account of the council in a Thousand Sons it is a young White Scars LIBRARIAN that makes the speech from the collection of LIBRARIANS that step forward. This is also backed up by the Librarians Index Astartes article. So whatever Stormseers were before the Librarius program, they were no longer after. They were Librarians by name and by practice.

 

@Avon

 

Here is some food for thought for you since you are taking what is quoted from the Emperor as what was decreed;

 

If you study what the Emperor says regarding seeking knowledge for the sake of power without first gaining wisdom, you will see how closely it mirrors the attitudes expressed by Wyrmdrake and other rune priests regarding the use of psychic powers. In fact the first encounter with Kasper and Wyrmdrake in Prospero Burns flys directly in contradiction to the teachings of the Thousand Sons. You will also notice in the speech given by the White Scars librarian at the council mirrors the attitude of Magnus, which the Emperor even goes as far as to admonish in his speech.

 

So when the question arises time and time again here as to why the rune priests are different when they use the same thing that librarians use, I simply point to the attitudes expressed by the Emperor and the Wolves is basically the same while those of the librarians and Magnus are in direct contradiction to that of the Emperor and the Wolves.

 

Here are some questions to think about;

 

1. In A Thousand Sons, after the edict has been passed, there is a conversation between two of the remembrancers on Prospero. The older one makes a point to the fat one that his continued training under Ahiriman is in direct defiance of the Emperor to which the fat one realizes is true. Now, if we look to Prospero Burns, we see after the council that Kasper is being psychically investigated by no less then three rune priests and at no time does he question their continued use after the edict. Why not?

 

2. In Fear to Tread, we have the second highest ranked BA, second only to Sanguinous it appears, challenging the Space Wolves contingent, which openly includes a rune priest, with the edict and yet we hear absolutely zero from Sanguinous himself on the matter. We know that the BA chaplain is quick to jump on a former librarian that has been returned to the battle companies when it merely appears he was about to use his powers. So in a Legion where the edict is being so strictly enforced, why is a SW contingent with a rune priest apparently free to do as they please with orders from the Sigilite no less?

[Lord_Caerolion]

2. In Fear to Tread, we have the second highest ranked BA, second only to Sanguinous it appears, challenging the Space Wolves contingent, which openly includes a rune priest, with the edict and yet we hear absolutely zero from Sanguinous himself on the matter. We know that the BA chaplain is quick to jump on a former librarian that has been returned to the battle companies when it merely appears he was about to use his powers. So in a Legion where the edict is being so strictly enforced, why is a SW contingent with a rune priest apparently free to do as they please with orders from the Sigilite no less?

 

We also have the Space Wolves saying that they have to conceal that their Rune Priest still uses his powers, because he isn't allowed to use them. The Space Wolves aren't "free to do as they please", Raldoron is carefully watching the Rune Priest, and is incredibly suspicious of him, thinking that he's a psyker. So yes, it seems that the Space Wolves are in fact bound by the Edict, but that those in power haven't gotten around to reprimanding them about it yet. After all, they may have broken the Edict, but they're doing so in a "harmless" way, and are entirely loyal. Malcador isn't going to be throwing away an incredibly useful Legion in the middle of a civil war for a relatively minor crime.

[KarkassBC]

To point out my continued support of the Wolves, with facts.

 

It was Magnus, Khan, and Sang that came together to form the Librarius Program. However in Prospero Burns when the author is explaining the Librarian Crisis, it is specifically stated that it was instructors FROM the Thousand Sons that were sent out to form Librariums within the other Legions.

 

This would include the White Scars Legion thus "tainting" their previously innocent Stormseers. If you read the account of the council in a Thousand Sons it is a young White Scars LIBRARIAN that makes the speech from the collection of LIBRARIANS that step forward. This is also backed up by the Librarians Index Astartes article. So whatever Stormseers were before the Librarius program, they were no longer after. They were Librarians by name and by practice.

 

@Avon

 

Here is some food for thought for you since you are taking what is quoted from the Emperor as what was decreed;

 

If you study what the Emperor says regarding seeking knowledge for the sake of power without first gaining wisdom, you will see how closely it mirrors the attitudes expressed by Wyrmdrake and other rune priests regarding the use of psychic powers. In fact the first encounter with Kasper and Wyrmdrake in Prospero Burns flys directly in contradiction to the teachings of the Thousand Sons. You will also notice in the speech given by the White Scars librarian at the council mirrors the attitude of Magnus, which the Emperor even goes as far as to admonish in his speech.

 

So when the question arises time and time again here as to why the rune priests are different when they use the same thing that librarians use, I simply point to the attitudes expressed by the Emperor and the Wolves is basically the same while those of the librarians and Magnus are in direct contradiction to that of the Emperor and the Wolves.

 

Here are some questions to think about;

 

1. In A Thousand Sons, after the edict has been passed, there is a conversation between two of the remembrancers on Prospero. The older one makes a point to the fat one that his continued training under Ahiriman is in direct defiance of the Emperor to which the fat one realizes is true. Now, if we look to Prospero Burns, we see after the council that Kasper is being psychically investigated by no less then three rune priests and at no time does he question their continued use after the edict. Why not?

 

2. In Fear to Tread, we have the second highest ranked BA, second only to Sanguinous it appears, challenging the Space Wolves contingent, which openly includes a rune priest, with the edict and yet we hear absolutely zero from Sanguinous himself on the matter. We know that the BA chaplain is quick to jump on a former librarian that has been returned to the battle companies when it merely appears he was about to use his powers. So in a Legion where the edict is being so strictly enforced, why is a SW contingent with a rune priest apparently free to do as they please with orders from the Sigilite no less?

 

I like your descriptions but for another point... you share the same "I'm right" attitude of the Space Wolves... unfortunately you use as proof no third party information or witnesses but the words of other Space Wolves...

 

As in a real judicary trial we can start from the main reason: why something is happened.

 

The Librarium was disbanded after the Nikaea Council as everyone knows. The Emperor called for it. Why? For protecting a far future or a present treat? The second reason. The Emperor declared the Council to avoid a split between his Legions. Mortarion, Dorn and Russ wanted to disallow the use of psychic powers amongst the Space Marine while others wanted to keep them.

The reason was to mantain Unity not really a psychic pro or against decision.

 

What were the reasons before of the Council. Again we can read the main reason was Russ very angry after The Ark Cluster Compliance: "Russ requested at the Emperor the censuring of Magnus" - more or less the words of Mortarion (remember: Mortarion never allowed the creation of the Librarium in his Legion, so he didn't have real info on the specific training)

 

Why Russ requested the Censoring of the Thousand Sons? Oh during the compliance of the Ark Cluster the TS performed a lot of psychic activities, destroying vehicles in the air, finding the defenders hideouts and many others. Russ stopped the actions to blame against the Thousand Sons for the wide use of psychic powers. Not at all. He started to blame only when the TS put a kinetic field around the Great Library. They wanted to raze everything. Someone stopped them and they went angry.

 

Going to your various point let me disagree.

 

1. "In fact the first encounter with Kasper and Wyrmdrake in Prospero Burns flys directly in contradiction to the teachings of the Thousand Sons". Kasper is not a psyker so for him to see a difference is very hard. He heard the description and keep it because he couldn't see if the description is true or false.

Better if a human, not Rune Seer or SW psyker, went to him and said: look this is the way of the Wolf of Fenris not the powers of the Warp. At least it will come from a neutral point.

 

I can point out a sentence of Lorgar about "Rune Priests used the same powers of the Thousand Sons, even if they call with another name". But the timing before the Nikaea Council it's not precise and it's possible that Lorgar is a secret follower of Chaos in that period. So it's position as a neutral witness is contested.

 

2."we see after the council that Kasper is being psychically investigated by no less then three rune priests and at no time does he question their continued use after the edict". Sorry man, but you think a man under investigation starts to receive a lot of sympathy when he starts to question the investigators. Probably he will keep his mouth very close even if he has very serious doubts. The Space Wolves have a reputation of bloodthirsty and destroyers. I don't think a simple human thinks to start to argue with them.

Moreover I don't know how much information about the Nikae Council is available outside the Space Marines. It's possible that Kasper Hauser doesn't know anything on it.

 

3. Sanguinius as a Primarch is described as a very thoughtful person, but on the contrary of Russ and other he doesn't give opinion on the matter of another brother. I don't know a single word in which he give a bad opinion of anyone else. So his behaviour is extremely good versus.

He accepted the ruling of the Emperor about the psykers only because it comes from the Emperor not because he thought the decision was good. He accepted it as an order.

Moreover he was extremely worried about the hidden flaw of his Legion so it's easy to think that he was more tolerant because he shared a possible fault.

By the way the Space Wolves Rune Seer could be the very worst of every psyker in the Adeptus Astartes, because he didn't sensed anything in a system filled with psy-power everywhere. Maybe he sensed everything but he didn't give any warning for example to save soldiers and ships on the approaching to the planets (for example when the debris around the central planet waited to mutate and attack the BA fleet).

I don't have any proof of his powers so I would not use his presence as a proof of speciality.

 

Now I want to give an extremely important testimony from a neutral source.

 

Have you read the short story "the Lion" in "The Primarchs". It spoke about the Dark Angels and their Primarch, Lion El Johnson.

In the first moment he needed wisdom/power/knowledge he called back the Librarian without any doubt and even killing one of his own for stopping a discussion about the opportunity to do it. Ok we can say there is the necessity, so the reason to do it is clear.

But after.

He used his Librarian for enforcing a message

At the end He gathered his Librarian in a special assault party against the Death Guards.

 

And he is extremely loyal to the Emperor. He preferred to see the entire Galaxy destroyed in order that no one can overthrown the Emperor. Above every other brother he consider only his Father.

 

So when an extremely loyal to the Emperor decided against a decree from the same person the reason it's only one: he knows the decree was made not against the psykers or the danger in the far future but to avoid a fracture between the Legions.

 

Now the Legions are split between two opposive fronts and there is no need to mantain the Decree at all, because it's main reason of existence is over.

[Billuriye]

We also have the Space Wolves saying that they have to conceal that their Rune Priest still uses his powers, because he isn't allowed to use them. The Space Wolves aren't "free to do as they please", Raldoron is carefully watching the Rune Priest, and is incredibly suspicious of him, thinking that he's a psyker. So yes, it seems that the Space Wolves are in fact bound by the Edict, but that those in power haven't gotten around to reprimanding them about it yet. After all, they may have broken the Edict, but they're doing so in a "harmless" way, and are entirely loyal. Malcador isn't going to be throwing away an incredibly useful Legion in the middle of a civil war for a relatively minor crime.

 

Don't bother. He didn't give a crap about evidences before, he isn't going to do it now.