The humble landspeeder

[Brom MKIV]

I would like to discuss the application of landspeeders in 6th edition, with the new emphasis on infantry, hull points and premeasurement.

 

To start, I have been toying with a vulkan list that utilizes drop podded melta with locator beacons supported by ranged AT (devs/LC preds etc), thunderfire cannon(s) and squadrons of 2 deep striking double HF speeders. With pinpoint accuracy these squadrons put out 21 wounds on average vs t4 with twinlinked assuming 6 models covered, even more for hordes like orks. This is enough to completely anhililate xenos units and will nearly wipe a full tac squad. Not bad for 120 pts.

 

Another variant I have recently revisited is the double heavy bolter speeder. In 5th edition I used 3 seperate typhoon speeders in nearly every list I wrote and they were always my MVPs. Very hard to draw a bead on until they struck first and when they did take fire often it was only to see them immobilized and still capable of inflicting damage. Now with the changes to hull points and assaulting vehicles I think typhoons are a little pricey for their reduced survivability, although still completely viable. However, dakka has become better both with the proliferation of infantry and the inception of hull points.. enter the double HB landspeeder. At only 60 pts a single speeder is super expendable yet pours out 6 s5 ap4 shots while moving 12" with 5++ jink, which is pretty damn efficient in and of itself, but heres the important part: with movement 12" and premeasuring not much beyond dedicated anti tank can retaliate and definately not infantry.

 

As an aside- For those of you who have not yet tested cheap rate of fire weapons in this edition I highly recommend you roll some up because they are much more viable.

 

Anyway just some thoughts and now id like to hear your thoughts and of course any experiences youve had with these variants, or even regarding dakka/template weapons in 6th since they relate to this topic. Cheers.

[Razblood]

Um..aint Heavy Bolter S5, AP4?

 

Other than that I agree that high rate of fire weapons do seem a lot more viable , especially against anything up to AV12.

[Ming]

I agree. Am using at least one speeder in every list, HF/MM being a favorite. Typhoons still are great because of their range and dual purpose as we see less vehicles and more foot sloggers.

[Cpt_Reaper]

He may have gotten the stats for an Assault Cannon mixed up with that of the Heavy Bolter. Either way, if someone has something good to say about speeders I am listening as I am working on my Ravenwing at the moment.

[rickybob]

I've got a few speeders coming in the mail, so I'm keen to hear what people think of them. Honestly though, looking at the MM speeder, I get the impression that it's a suicide unit. To be able to use the MM effectively, I'd need to get it close, and even if it's successful, the speeder is a very juicy target...

[Brom MKIV]

Put s6 by mistake post edited now but the rest stands. In fact while I love me some asscans the price per round is not as efficient as the heavy Bolter, especially on long fangs although speeders are very close in cost for superior mobility. Also consider this, while they may be lightly armored hb speeder squadrons are scoring 1/6 missions with respectable ranged ability. If your not playing BAs this is actually a point worth considering since other chapters can't boast HS options in FA. Anyway just a few more thoughts to keep the discussion rolling.

 

Edit- regarding mm speeders, in this edition DSing now allows for both meltas to shoot which is a bonus over 5th iirc so 2 mm shots for 80 is really efficient, the most efficient melta pt for pt available in fact. That being said the melta and heavy flamer variants are indeed suicide units, but what more can you really ask of such a cheap unit? They either slag a tank or roast an infantry unit, THEN they draw fire to prevent a repeat.

[lhg033]

i'll be sticking with HB typhoons personally and using them as fast, ranged support.

 

MM will be on attack bikes for me - i think they are more suited to closer range shooting, especially as part of a bike squad that can last ditch assault and hit with hammer of wrath as it goes in

[DerekLee688]

The biggest question in my mind to ask "Is it acceptable to bring speeders within 24" range?" If yes, then have MM/MM or AC/MM tornado's. If no, stick with the typhoons and profit.

[UltraTacSgt]

I'm really interested in running a highly mobile element in my otherwise low mobility infantry list. I don't mean to turn this thread to speeders vs bikes, but I'm considering either 3 bikes w/ plasmagun, flamer, power wep, melta bombs, and a MM AB for 180pts or three dakka speeders w/ dual HB's for 180pts or two typhoon speeders for 180pts.

 

I have everything from anti horde to anti heavy armor elsewhere in my list so this mobile element would ideally need to be able to pump out effective firepower on a wide range of targets and generally use mobility to harass the enemy.

 

Like I said I don't mean to make this speeders vs bikes as I'm sure such a thread already exists, but if any experienced speeder users could tell me how different speeder configs would perform in the aforementioned role for around 180pts, I'd appreciate the advice.

[Brom MKIV]

The biggest question in my mind to ask "Is it acceptable to bring speeders within 24" range?" If yes, then have MM/MM or AC/MM tornado's. If no, stick with the typhoons and profit.

This is something that needs to be addressed in the context of your overall list IMO. From my perspective HB/HB speeders and typhoons (my primary config until recently) fit the bill perfectly for expendable dakka and firebase simply because they dont need to come within small arms fire range to be effective.

 

Conversely a single MM/MM is acceptable to bring within 24" simply because it is dirt cheap but more importantly can deep strike (hopefully with beacon) allowing for a double multimelta shot for only 80 pts.

 

Regarding the third and probably least utilized configuration, the HF/HF variant, Consider this:

A squadron of 2 HF/HF speeders is 120 pts. Now, assuming 6 models covered (give or take a model vs MEQ but more against hordes) the unit puts out around 16 wounds on t4. It takes 36 shots from any other S5 weapon to generate this damage. Lemme repeat that...36 shots! With vulkan the unit will pour out 21 wounds in the same situation (again more vs horde units) or the equivalent of roughly 50 S5 shots. Thats effing insane value and thus IMO worth the risk.

 

UltraTacSgt- bikes are more survivable with t5 and no hull pts, but speeders win in sheer offensive power and utility due to deep strike. Both are very fast and both score 1/6 missions. Basically its a trade off and depends what you want the unit for. I am a player that prefers to invest in offensive units (and ill admit I have a fetish for less commonly used units) even if they are glass hammers so I prefer speeders. Its your choice but I will say this, in this edition you will not find a cheaper platform to carry heavy weapons than the landspeeder, and certainly not multiple heavy weapons or one that can move 12" and fire those weapons.

[ShinyRhino]

The biggest question in my mind to ask "Is it acceptable to bring speeders within 24" range?" If yes, then have MM/MM or AC/MM tornado's. If no, stick with the typhoons and profit.

 

It is, so long as you examine your attack vector. If you move your speeders up to slag a unit dead in the center of the enemy battle line, you're trading the speeders for whatever they're targeting. they just wont survive the retaliation. However, if you can approach from a flank or a limited fire lane, you have a greater chance that the enemy will be forced to redeploy to take on the speeders, or ignore them in favor of other targets.

AV10 is a major liability now, as a tactical Squad can reliably knock speeders out of the sky in a single volley with hullpoint glances.

[Gideon999]

Also I might be wrong but MM/MM speeders cost 80 points, not 60. Still worth every point in my opinion.

[Brom MKIV]

Yep your correct, ill fix my post above and thanks for the attention to detail. The fact that MM/MM speeders are 20 pts cheaper with DS still makes them the cheapest dual melta platform available although not by as much as I mistakenly said when compared to 2 MMABs for 100, and especially when considering the increased survivability of the bikes.

[Gideon999]

Only reason I noticed is that, when 6th dropped, I had JUST assembled 2 MM/HF speeders and said to myself : "Self, if you can shoot two multimeltas now, why the feth arent you doing it?!"

 

I promptly modded my HF's into MM's and used them in the next game to burn down a squad of meganobz. Only you can prevent Melta-Fail! :-)

[CitadelArmyGuy]

3x Land Speeders, double-HBs.

BA/DA/SW Librarian.

Cast Prescience on 18 shots.

...

Profit

[Brom MKIV]

3x Land Speeders, double-HBs.

BA/DA/SW Librarian.

Cast Prescience on 18 shots.

...

Profit

Thats awesome. Now add vulkan + melta/HFs..

[DerekLee688]

3x Land Speeders, double-HBs.

BA/DA/SW Librarian.

Cast Prescience on 18 shots.

...

Profit

 

Then comes the overwatch on your opponents turn.

[mmaarrkk]

Can speeders overwatch?,

 

I have just bought 3 land speeders, I already have two attack bikes with HB and three with multimeltas, I do love the multi melta bikes, they have got me first blood in a lot of games where I have faced tanks.

 

Not sure how to kit my Land speeders out, I am tempted by AC HB combo but I havent really used the typhoon much but they do sound good. i think I will probably get my magnets out and have a play with them

[ShinyRhino]

Can speeders overwatch?,

 

No, they cannot.

[Gideon999]

Personally I would not recommend the assault cannon. 24" range puts the speeder into suicide range, and if you are going to do that you would probably have better luck with 2 heavy flamers (more chance to kill guys, and just as suicidal, but cheaper). If you like the idea of a dakka speader the twin heavy bolter is a better choice with better standoff range and is still very cheap. Depends on what you want the speeder to do though, I tend to think of assault cannons as anti infantry weapons though they CAN be used in other areas.

 

Still, typhoons. Yep, try em. You will LOVE em. I can not fault them at all, they always serve me well and if you are carful with your ranges and movement they are very hard to get rid of.

[Shaggy12009]

I ran a MM/MM speeder with my 5th ed wolves and it never let me down. If you're facing light armor or termies move 6" and fire both to full effect. The best thing about adding the second MM is you don't have to worry about that random weapon destroyed result shutting down the entire unit. It's also fun when your opponent finally shoots it down and you remind them it's only 80 pts. I love bursting their bubble with that one.

[DarkGuard]

MM/MM Speeders are even better now that they can move 12 and fire everything. I do keep on thinking of converting some from my MM/HF Speeders, but MM ABs are still fine and more durable, so I haven't yet.

 

As for Typhoons, ehhhhhh. That's my response. I loved them, in 5th I absolutely loved them. At the back of your army they could put up with a surprising amount of firepower, they were able to easily get side armour, and were cheap! Now, with only 2 HPs, I find them too fragile, even with jink. In 5th opponent's wouldn't shoot at them much because they could actually be a bit tough. Now, they will, because they basically need two hits with an anti-tank gun and it's gone. Their damage output is the same, it even went up in some ways, but they're too fragile now for my liking.

[ShinyRhino]

Depends on how you use your Typhoons, really.

I ran a squadron of two in a tourney over the weekend as support for my Biker army. I had a Bike Captain, Bike Command Squd, three Troops squads, an Assault Squad, a Las/Plas Pred, a Techmarine Biker, and a trio of squadroned multimelta attack bikes alongside that Typhoon Squadron.

The Typhoons survived the first game unmolested, and reaped a tally of Necron Heavy Destroyers and infantry. The bikes were simply too much of a frontal-assault force to allow long shots at the speeders.

They were Wrecked on hullpoints in melee in game two by a Lord of Change, after they'd contributed wounds onto a Prince of Slaanesh and all but decimated a 9-strong unit of Screamers. Again, my bikers were a frontal assault force that moved forward to make the Typhoons an afterthought.

Game Three, one was exploded in turn two or so, and the other survived the whole game, but lost its Typhoon launchers on the final turn. They hammered several transports into wrecks over the course of a few turns. Bikes were again the primary target.

 

It's all a matter of how your army is contructed. If you have the forward presence to make long shots at Speeders less useful, they're great. If they're just part of a gunline, they're an easy kill.

[Gideon999]

Agreed. I tend to use mine alongside drop podded grey hunter squads. 2 of those coming down turn 1 makes everyone force a hard choice. 2-3 Typhoons backed with 2 squads of Long Fangs at range is a beautiful hammer to the grey hunters anvil. I dont bring wolf guard with those squads, and generally run melta in them (or maybe one with plasma). They GH's drop, pin the enemy in place and slag a tank or two if possible, then they hold the enemy there long enough for the long fangs and typhoons to pound them for a couple of turns.

[Brom MKIV]

Hey shinyrhino I think your dead on with your assessment. Most lists I make involve a heavy forward element and my typhoons have always been insane due to more pressing threats.