DarkGuard Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Maybe I'll take a look at my list an review. I keep changing my mind on it, but 2 together or separate? I think separate is too tempting a target for First Blood etc, maybe that's my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Maybe I'll take a look at my list an review. I keep changing my mind on it, but 2 together or separate? I think separate is too tempting a target for First Blood etc, maybe that's my problem. Mine was a single squadron of two speeders. However, at my FLGS tourneys, we don't use the BRB missions. We have a collection of custom ones that were devised under 5th and updated for 6th. The hokey Linebreaker, First Blood, Slay the Warlord junk isn't a part of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 So what do you guys think about mm/hf speeders? I got a pair of those and dunno if I should even bother trying to make them work. Maybe deep striking in a vulkan list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I always did like that unit together, although in 5th they were a big target. Giga, I'd personally just cut the nozzle of the heavy flamer off and use a MM nozzle instead, that's what I'm planning on doing. The main strength of the MM/HF Speeder was versatility, but it came about because the 2x MM Speeder wasn't efficient. Nowadays, the 2x MM Speeder is efficient, and so is perhaps the better choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Yeah totally agree. This edition has seen use of Landspeeders change dramatically. Suicide units still have their place in some lists but flimsy units with mediocre offensive output have dropped to undesirable. A heavy flamer is still nice and all, but on a platform so weak it becomes very niche. Landspeeders seem to be all about the long range fight now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I thought as much. Frankly, I can't see any speeders short of typhoons really being useful in 6th ed. Even the double mm speeders just seem pretty terrible compared to MM attack bikes, especially considering the points price. :S On a totally unrelated note, I've been reading the new chaos dex and holy crap, I don't remember having so many "what the hell" moments in a while. I still can't decide if I should be angry at how cheap and efficient their stuff is compared to us vanilla marines (even the standard wargear like power fists and power weapons costs less!), or if I should be happy since they're probably going to keep this price-lowering trend in the next vanilla dex. Here's to hoping tactical squads get an overhaul, dammit, or at least be made much cheaper. o,O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekLee688 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I thought as much. Frankly, I can't see any speeders short of typhoons really being useful in 6th ed. Even the double mm speeders just seem pretty terrible compared to MM attack bikes, especially considering the points price. :S What's the price difference between two double MM land speeders and three MM attack bikes? I already know which has more MM shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 70pts. It's a closer comparison to compare 2 Attack Bikes to a single Landspeeder with 2 Multi-meltas , which lowers the difference to only 20pts. The Attack Bikers still have the edge in my view though thanks to their additional weapons and 4 wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 2 Double MM Speeders (160pts) and 3 MM ABs (150pts) are only 10pts apart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Attack bikes are 20 pts cheaper per bike, have 2 wounds, a 3+ armor save (making them theoretically more resistant to STR4 fire), can assault, T5 makes them immune to instant death short of str10, and they can hide behind tanks, possibly making them completely invisible to enemy shooting. I dunno, as pure melta platforms, my money is on attack bikes right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Attack Bikes are 30pts cheaper per bike, 2x MM Speeders are 80pts. However, for that 30pts difference, you get arguably better mobility options, an extra melta shot and access to Deep Stike. Attack Bikes are certainly more durable now, but Speeders pack more punch for their points IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 2 Double MM Speeders (160pts) and 3 MM ABs (150pts) are only 10pts apart... Opps. I misread his post. How embarrassing! Tell you what I've noticed actually; a single double MM is a weaker choice than a pair of Attack Bikes with MM, yet when you take 3 Attack Bikes it becomes a tighter call compared to a pair of double MM Landspeeders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 The difference between mmabs and speeders now is that one mm/mm speeder is cheaper then 2 bikes and can deepstrike. Lets be honest both units will fold to dedicated attention so to me I would prefer the more expendable option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 2 Double MM Speeders (160pts) and 3 MM ABs (150pts) are only 10pts apart... Opps. I misread his post. How embarrassing! Tell you what I've noticed actually; a single double MM is a weaker choice than a pair of Attack Bikes with MM, yet when you take 3 Attack Bikes it becomes a tighter call compared to a pair of double MM Landspeeders. That'll teach you to type before reading. :( B) Brom, I dispute that MM ABs fold easy. They're not real toughness 5, so krak missiles no longer instant kill them, neither do lascannons. With a 5+ cover everytime they move at least, they've become a lot more durable, and with no HP issues they're more durable than Speeders now. Personally, I agree with Idaho. If you can spare 150 or so points for melta, then take two 2xMM Speeders. If you can only spare 100, then take the MM ABs. If you can only spare 80 though, then you take the 2x MM Speeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelordcal Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 I've been having extreme success with the typhoon patterns. I benched them at the start of 6th scoffing at their 2 hull points and the perception of how quickly they'll fold under fire. But as time has worn on, i've noticed a drastic shift from long range firepower in a few tournaments i've been to recently. Typhoons have the ability to out range most guns and provide the long range AT/AI that my bikes will need while they close on my opponents deployment zone. Against some of the more popular chaos builds, they seem to lack long range guns short of the heldrake, letting me play keep away for 6 turns and whither units. They're still by far the most versatile variant in my opinion. They provide great AT with 4 krak missiles or AI with 4 frag missiles! I typically swap out the heavy bolter for a heavy flamer. It adds another element of AI and really helps clear infiltrators, out flankers, trying to sneak into my deployment zone! Couple 2 typhoons with 2 thunder fire cannons and you have a long range battery that won't fold quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehoel Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Brom, I dispute that MM ABs fold easy. They're not real toughness 5, so krak missiles no longer instant kill them, neither do lascannons. With a 5+ cover everytime they move at least, they've become a lot more durable, and with no HP issues they're more durable than Speeders now. Ok is this a mistype or is my reading that bad? Shouldn't that be They're real toughness 5? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellrender Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 yes, he means ''now'', as the following part of the sentence says he can no longer instant kill him. Context is your friend :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 It was indeed a mistype, should be now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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