How do you find Blood Angels in 6th

[Deschenus Maximus]

I've been running a lot of airpower, personnaly. The Storm Raven is just awesome. I try to take 2, each loaded with 10 ASM (double melta) and a Priest. One will also carry my libby (Lance/Shield). Now, that is a lot of points that has to stay in reserves, so I make judicious use of my allies and bring some IG along. Either 2 plasma vet squads in Chimeras or a small platoon (plasma command squad, autocannon infantry squads) also in Chimeras. I get them an Aegis line with Comms Relay to make sure my Ravens come in when I need them. I find that BA + IG is just a match made in heaven: tough assault troops supported my cheap, numerous scoring bodies bringing good firepower and more tank hulls.

 

I've had great success so far.

[Sir Blayse]

Also, the same tactic I used to use for my Ultra's helps out a bit. Even more if you've quit using vehicles as much.

 

The idea is to run a tactical squad on foot and behind them run a JP RAS with Priest. You are able to advance on the enemy and dish out bolter fire, while still taking advantage of FNP for both squads. If your opponent gets close, then you can hit them with combined rapid-fire and follow up with a bolt pistol volley and charge. This combo does work on most units... though it has a tough time against the termie units. The Tac Squad would be using a Plasmagun/ML build to give you good Overwatch results and dealing with some of the 2+ saves ( hopefully you are able to put out more than one round of shooting with it.) The RAS follows the usual IP/2xMelta build. If you come up to a vehicle, then you can leap up to the side of it to fire the melta's, then rapid-fire the passengers when it blows up. The unit is expensive, but gives you a lot of flexibility. In most cases it is best on foot to get the most out of the tactical squads, ( though starting them in a rhino for turn one might not be too bad.) You get 21 marines for about 500 points. Both units can deal with objectives, so you don't have to worry about your opponent crushing your scoring unit and just leaving the elite unit behind. Your still going to need something to deal with stuff like Terminators and TWC, but you should be able to deal with a lot of enemy units. ( It crushes most bug/ork style forces and gives you a a good edge against eldar and even dark eldar. Against other marines, well it really depends on how many 3+ saves they are making.

[Sir Blayse]

Also, the same tactic I used to use for my Ultra's helps out a bit. Even more if you've quit using vehicles as much.

 

The idea is to run a tactical squad on foot and behind them run a JP RAS with Priest. You are able to advance on the enemy and dish out bolter fire, while still taking advantage of FNP for both squads. If your opponent gets close, then you can hit them with combined rapid-fire and follow up with a bolt pistol volley and charge. This combo does work on most units... though it has a tough time against the termie units. The Tac Squad would be using a Plasmagun/ML build to give you good Overwatch results and dealing with some of the 2+ saves ( hopefully you are able to put out more than one round of shooting with it.) The RAS follows the usual IP/2xMelta build. If you come up to a vehicle, then you can leap up to the side of it to fire the melta's, then rapid-fire the passengers when it blows up. The unit is expensive, but gives you a lot of flexibility. In most cases it is best on foot to get the most out of the tactical squads, ( though starting them in a rhino for turn one might not be too bad.) You get 21 marines for about 500 points. Both units can deal with objectives, so you don't have to worry about your opponent crushing your scoring unit and just leaving the elite unit behind. Your still going to need something to deal with stuff like Terminators and TWC, but you should be able to deal with a lot of enemy units. ( It crushes most bug/ork style forces and gives you a a good edge against eldar and even dark eldar. Against other marines, well it really depends on how many 3+ saves they are making.

[Demoulius]

Ive run a tactical squad with plasmagun, lascannon (only 10 points! so cheap :)) and storm bolter. Good, cheap fire support unit who can serve as anti-tank in a pinch.

 

Old favorite tactical unit of mine was multi-melta, plasmagun, powerfist. Great jack of all trades unit ^_^ they were most of the time accompanied by a poweraxe SP and they were MVP's in the majoirty of my games. Both because they weathered unsurmountable odds in alot of games and because noone thinks very much of tactical marines. But at the end of the day they are still marines :) 3+ save and 4+FnP made them survive ALOT and WS5 poweraxe and PF sarg meant they were not fun to take on in combat either B)

 

Unit might see a return to the tabletop, theyre currently collecting dust on my display shelf :(

[Jolemai]

It's worth pointing out this discussion in the Official Rules forum. Basically if you fire those pistols prior to a charge, you don't get the +1A for having two close combat weapons...

[Sir Blayse]

That is a silly bit of an argument. I don't see that getting any ground anywhere at all. Plus, the PF/LC example still holds water against that argument. Just because you can't shoot it in the CC phase doesn't stop the +1A rule. Now if the pistol was AP 5 in CC, then you would not be able to have the AP5 part, if that rule even sticks. Your using the chainsword and have the pistol for an offhand. Otherwise, GW has killed the use of all assault marines for all marines.

 

But, that whole bit really has nothing to do with the idea of the tactic above, the pistols are hardly going to make a big difference when you shoot them. The main purpose is the Meltaguns.

[Jolemai]

My reply as with regards to the original post about no longer assaulting :)

[Hadron Ka'sel]

It's been said several times but Hybrid lists are certainly the way to go i believe. Anyone who puts all their eggs in one basket is asking for trouble. Having said that i do run a couple of rather expensive units in my list that act as a core. One being Hon Guard with jump packs, plasma guns and a divi libby. This unit has been mentioned and as said before it is expensive, but holy crud is it dangerous. I'm not sure how many games i've played since 6th came out, but they have consistently made back their obscene cost and then some in many cases. It is a unit that has to be used intelligently, but it really does work. I love this unit as essentially you have a gun platform that can move 12" every turn has FnP and rerolls.

A second unit i use is (and yes i know this is controversial and not everyone agrees, but my local group are all in agreement on this) is Dante with Sang Guard armed with lances and a Sangpriest with a jump pack. This, quite frankly, is one of the most terrifying assault units i have ever seen. It's just about chewed through everything its gone up against including nurgle demons acting as a tar pit. By the end of my opponents assault phase i didn't need to use hit and run because he had one guy left out of roughly 10 and although the lances weren't as powerful as they had been on the charge sheer weight of attacks finished him off.

These two units can easily be made a legal list with the addition of a small unit of DC, or more Sang guard because dante makes them troops, or what ever else from troops you fancy. Leaving you to fill up the rest of the list as you please. The mobility and flexibility i get from this is still hard for me to believe in all honesty.

 

In regards to charging with RAS I've changed my approach. I've found now that more than anything else a SS on the Sergeant, who also has some melta bombs is really useful.

With the way the new wound allocation works the idea of using formations with your RAS really works. I tend to put the sergeant up front with the rest of the unit in a wedge shape behind him, and normally there is a priest near by for additional survive-ability. By the time the Sergeant dies, if he dies, the RAS is normally in easy charging distance with minimal casualties.

Interestingly i have an alternative for you in regards to a divi libby with your DC, and that would be to ally in normal marines and take Lysander, this was something mentioned in another thread i saw not to long ago and seems like a pretty tidy idea. If i remember correctly he gives his unit bolter drill meaning rerolls on bolter weapons, though i can't remember for certain. Plus with the gear he has as good an ability to survive as the DC, while also beating faces with his hammer. Plus his ss helps to keep you DC alive until they can get into combat, that's if you want to risk it.

 

All in all i don't think that assault has really become any weaker. Its just that you can't just charge in like a nutter windmilling your arms until all your enemies are dead and you can move on.

I myself always try to use units in conjunction with each other rather than send them off on there own.

All in all these are just my opinions and experiences.

 

P.S one final thing i just thought of is that if you really want to make the most out of divination but dont want to take two Libbys as your H.Q there is always the option of a furioso librarian with it. Close combat orientated, relatively tough, charge him in along with a unit of DC, your opponent is going to have to make a choice at what to snap fire at. The dread, or the men. Either way the dread can buff your shooting and assault abilities of your dc, and then wade in to support them depending on whether its survived.

 

Assault is not dead in 6th, its just a little different and more challenging. Just my views, mind :tu:

 

Hadron

 

*missed some words out by accident, i type way to quickly for my own good some times ¬_¬

[Sokhar]

The idea is to run a tactical squad on foot and behind them run a JP RAS with Priest.

 

I've been away from BA for most of 6th, but this is largely the approach I'm going to take getting back to them. Only difference is I intend to run allied Wolves, with two squads of Grey Hunters in Rhinos in this role. Double plasma for the Wolves, they hop out and rapid fire away. Then the enemy either has to charge them (and eat overwatch, Counter-Charge and then also get charged by the trailing Assault Marines) or just try to shoot them away, and eat a subsequent charge from the Assault Marines. As pointed out earlier, Rune Priests have some advantages over our Librarians, so I see no reason not to steal one while running Mephiston as my warlord instead.

[Riddlebox]

Hadron, I'm a little confused by your post. The majority of it I got and understand but is it a house rule that allows you to take lances on your Sanguinary Guard? I believed that Guard was faqed so they can only have whats modeled on them IE: Glaive Encarmine (Sword) Master-crafted Two-handed, Str-User ap3. (Axe) Master-crafted, Two-handed, Unwieldy, Str +1 ap 2.

[Hadron Ka'sel]

Hadron, I'm a little confused by your post. The majority of it I got and understand but is it a house rule that allows you to take lances on your Sanguinary Guard? I believed that Guard was faqed so they can only have whats modeled on them IE: Glaive Encarmine (Sword) Master-crafted Two-handed, Str-User ap3. (Axe) Master-crafted, Two-handed, Unwieldy, Str +1 ap 2.

 

Its not a house rule. If you read the F.A.Q they only list the profiles of the axe and sword because the question they went with only mentioned those weapons. F.A.Q Clearly states that glaives follow the normal rule for power weapons in the 6th edition rule book. Long and short of it is that there is a lot of debate of whether glaives are limited to just axes and swords.

Basically the F.A.Q isn't that clear and after much discussion in our group we came to the conclusion that glaives work like any other power weapon, because of the wording of the F.A.Q (it does explicitly say that glaives follow the normal rules for power weapons in addition to being 2handed and mastercrafted), and that meant you have a choice of mauls and lances as well. I want to leave it at that because this is a topic thats been discussed to death, with many people sitting on both sides and i don't want to derail this thread and make it into another Glaive debate so it gets shut down.

Hope that explains everything Riddle. :D

 

Edit: Apologies for repeating certain things in this post.

[Sir Blayse]

I've been away from BA for most of 6th, but this is largely the approach I'm going to take getting back to them. Only difference is I intend to run allied Wolves, with two squads of Grey Hunters in Rhinos in this role. Double plasma for the Wolves, they hop out and rapid fire away. Then the enemy either has to charge them (and eat overwatch, Counter-Charge and then also get charged by the trailing Assault Marines) or just try to shoot them away, and eat a subsequent charge from the Assault Marines. As pointed out earlier, Rune Priests have some advantages over our Librarians, so I see no reason not to steal one while running Mephiston as my warlord instead.

 

That's a pretty good combo. The extra plasmagun will really make it deadly for those 2+ units.

[ASSASSINAWOKEN]

I myself always use one full Tactical squad and one full Assault squad.

6th edition has taught me to change a few things. The Tactical squad is I remove the special weapon and go with a plasma/lascannon combination. The Assault squad I keep the two melta guns, but remove the PF and go with a PW instead.

 

On the issue of Sterguard I have pondered the idea of using them again. The bolters are bolters, but their special ammo can wreak havok depending upon placement.

Reading all this makes me think of how I use my Librarian. I tend to run him with the Assault squad, but I never thought of using him with the Tactical squad for shooting boosts.

 

I use my DC here and there because I only have 5, but I have learned the power maul AP4 of Chaplains and big L is not worth the extra cost. However big L, can swing a fight because of his abilities.

 

With all this in mind I have often wondered if Tactical squads are useful at all after the first.

[SamaNagol]

If versatility is important to you, Sternguard are worth their points.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

As an aside, it's rather interesting to see how this thread sprouted 38 replies in only 19 hours. Seems that if you impinge close combat on the 'Assault Marine Codex' subforum you'll probably poke a rapid response :)

[Jorre]

As an aside, it's rather interesting to see how this thread sprouted 38 replies in only 19 hours. Seems that if you impinge close combat on the 'Assault Marine Codex' subforum you'll probably poke a rapid response :)

 

I think both sides of the argument have merit. Some of the more skilled players may be able to get effective results out of their assault elements. However your more casual players like myself I think are going to find it much easier to play blood angels as a shooting force with supporting assault elements.

 

I love building and experimenting with new units on the table top so I'm a long way from having tried all the options available to me and that's without even thinking about allies yet.

 

However based on my current experiences I don't see the BA codex holding up quite as well as some of the other 5th edition codexs as we get further and further into 6th. I can see us becoming more and more a finesse army while others like space wolves, guard and grey knights are probably going to stick around the top for a while yet.

[JamesI]

I still find my blood angels work best when I get in someone's face and try to beat them in combat. Maybe that's just because that's how I enjoy the game so I play assault heavy.

[Midnightmare]

The 6th has really altered how I use my RAS due to the loss of the Furious Charge init bonus. I used to run them in conjunction with Priests and unleash rage Libby's, and they were the heavy lifters in my 5th lists being good all rounders; scoring, taking down tanks and MEQ's with equal aplomb. They seem to take much more casualties now leading up to assaults with overwatch and hitting simultaniously. They are still great mobile scorer's, and make up the core of my lists although they are backed up with Tactical Squads, and now more recently Sternguard which I have found excellent. I am thinking of making a bolter DC with a Divination Libby for a good all-round unit.

 

OT - One thing with the 6th at the moment for me is Stormravens are God-like (I am sure this will change over time as more AA becomes available, however) Ravens loaded with a choppy AV13 Dread on board, which late on in the game a lot of opponents have no answer to and enemy troops on objectives become a smear of red paste.

[Demoulius]

Ive always favored well rounded lists as "all your eggs in one basked" lists tend to blow up in my face :P

 

That said in most lists I ran 2 jump ASM squads. I think il drop one and replace them with a squad of terminators with termi priest. The 2+ save is so nasty, specialy with FNP and with their larger charge range im dying to see how they perform ^_^ Also with a more tactical list they fit in nicely (again IMHO)

 

So more shooting units, DIFFERENT assault units bot overall the idea stays the same, with the big exception that il most likely not wield much vehicles... Damn HP's ;)

[SnorriSnorrison]

I still find my blood angels work best when I get in someone's face and try to beat them in combat. Maybe that's just because that's how I enjoy the game so I play assault heavy.

 

+1

 

Same here. After all, it's still great fun to imagine that your troops unleash their righteous wrath upon the enemies of mankind in a bloody close quarter combat. :)

 

 

Snorri

[Father Mapple]

6th Edition has gotten me closer games rather than being tabled or tabling opponents like what happened in 5th more often. Shooting against me is less effective, I find, than in 5th, but that's due to very strict unit placement and manipulation of cover. I played hybrid lists all through 5th edition with all or nothing results most times. But in 6th, I'm having closer, more fun games. Examples and reasoning to follow. I've played 6 or 7 games of 6th Ed.

 

List:

Divination Libby + JP

3 Assault Squads with PW, 1 has 2x melta, 1 has 2x flamer, 1 is mixed.

2 Priests + JP

Baal Pred

AC/LC Pred

SR

Furioso + DP + Frag cannon and Hvy Flamer

Vanguard Vets with PW, PF, melta bombs.

That's 3 shooty vehicles, mixed purpose furioso, 4 close combat units, 3 troops (sometimes one combat squadded).

 

The ICs spread evenly amongst the assault squads. The tactic is that they always advance. Against any army but Dark Eldar, I'm faster, so I can get there when the Drop Pod with Furioso and the VVets arrive turn 2 most times. They're never alone since I can jump/run and meet the enemy on turn 2. I haven't had a game of 6th ed yet where it took me turn 3 to get into close combat.

 

The flamer jumpers act as a screen with their priest and give cover saves to everyone else. But even against the most shooty necrons/Grey knights/Dark Eldar, they won't be wiped out until turn 2. There's just too many other threats coming in each turn. This allows me to take a charge with double flamers, or get a dummy charge where the stacked 2nd and 3rd assault squads can assist.

 

Using the bolt pistols before charging is key to making the assault decisive. Use your jump to get within 1-3" (on turn 2), then shoot (with more effect than Hammer of Wrath would have, normally) then charge. With re-rolls, only healthy terminators will stand up to that kind of punishment.

 

Enemies should be out of their transports between the StormRaven, the Predators, and the Furioso (if it lives to turn 2). Vanguard Vets will tie up their shooting elements, either infantry OR vehicles. If they get a disorganized charge against several vehicles - that's ok. I'm only losing 1 power fist attack and the other grenades would have only swung once anyway. Between the locator beacon and Descent of Angels, I'm making their Heroic Intervention MUCH more often in 6th edition.

 

Because I control the movement so much, I can make sure the sergeants and the priests are shielded by 4 or 5 casualties. People are not fast as us, so they can not swing all the way around to the other side and shoot a specific character out as often as feared when 6th drops. They'd have to outflank or something similar to do that, but you know if that's a risk when your opponent deploys.

 

I think 6th has been kind to us, in fact. If the assault that you get lasts a bit longer... GOOD! Then the unit is not sitting out getting shot during the opponent's turn! But if you absolutely need to break a unit, do it with 20 marines, not 10. 10 will hold them up, but it takes 20 to smash. TH/SS terminators, the toughest nut in the game, still won't survive 20 marines that shoot, charge, and half get rerolls to crack them.

 

20 bolt pistols = at least 1 unsaved wound. (hit on 3s, wound on 4s, Termies 2+ save) (not counting meltas or flamers)

2 ICs with 8 power SWORD attacks = .55 unsaved wounds (hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s, Termies 2+ save)

48 attacks from regular CCW = 2.5 unsaved wounds (hit on 4s, wound on 3s, Termies 2+ save)

8 Sergeant attacks with power SWORDS = 0.4 wounds (hit on 4s, wound on 3s, Termies 2+ save)

Combined total of 4.45

 

And that's without one of the two squads re-rolling their misses. So for example:

 

24 regular CCW marine attacks re-rolling misses means 1.9 unsaved wounds by themselves, meaning the total would be 3.15 unsaved wounds, an improvement of about 25%. But Prescience would also improve:

bolt pistols to 1.21 unsaved wounds total,

IC power SWORD attacks to .82 unsaved wounds total,

and Sergeants power SWORD attacks to .5 wounds total,

for a combined total of 5.68 unsaved wounds. or 22 percent better total, mixed unit.

 

This is a lot of math to show one thing: support is crucial, as well as never having a unit alone. Even my two tanks hang out nearby each other so they can whirl around and blow something up that comes close to threatening them. Whichever squad is screening and in the front, getting shot up, will move close to the Van Vets to give them Priest support when they get the charge. Furioso helps prepare a landing spot for the Vets, and distracts heavy shooting from my chargers. No one wants to charge the Furioso unless they're swarmlord or higher Init, like a Daemon Prince. Etc, etc, etc. It's a layered, finesse game, sure, but I think that's true of more things in 6th.

 

Playing a DraigoWing, I was able to jump a 2x melta combat squad right next to the Apothecary - making the rest of the paladins much easier to kill. Tricks like that were impossible before.

 

I love 6th edition.

[Chaplain Admetus]

I've been playing "for fun" a lot more - even did it at Throne of Skulls over the weekend. Just if I couldn't decide what to do, decided to play like a blood angel would. In fact, I think the storm raven trick was about the only truly clever tactic I used all weekend. This is why I tend to have so few models left at the end of the game, my approach to any problem is to throw assault marines at the problem until it goes away :D. Hybrid works, but it might work better for me as I've been playing it for years, with a tactical squad in my list as a core unit.

 

Also, I'll echo the feel no pain calls... I don't mind losing a point of FnP but not having furious charge's initiative bump is a real kick in the nads. I used to love that for bringing down MEQ units before they got to strike; now no matter what I do I'm going to have them punching me in the face anyway. Though I do love "oh, you get 5 whole attacks out of that combat squad? Just two of my assaulters get more than that :)"

[John Rainbow]

The standard 'core' of any force I've run so far in 6th is:

 

Divination Libby (naked)

Honour Guard + 4 x Plasma Gun

 

2 x 10 man Tac. Squad + ML, Plasma Gun

 

Devs + 3x ML, Plasma Cannon

 

Then either:

Scouts w/sniper rifles

OR

10 man RAS + 2x meltagun and dual Infernus Sarge (combat squad and deep strike for backfield/parking lot nuking)

[Drunken Angel]

Also, I'll echo the feel no pain calls... I don't mind losing a point of FnP but not having furious charge's initiative bump is a real kick in the nads. I used to love that for bringing down MEQ units before they got to strike; now no matter what I do I'm going to have them punching me in the face anyway. Though I do love "oh, you get 5 whole attacks out of that combat squad? Just two of my assaulters get more than that :D"

I think this is the key point we got lots of good stuff but it cost us in points our troops often had to do our combat for us at I5 it was viable at I4 overwatch and random charge length we risk losing too many in the course of a game as Chaplain Admntus has found. We still get there but with fewer marines left than in 5th.

With no I5 we need another way to ensure combat is overwhelmingly in our favour grabbing more more cheap conscripts to objective sit is one way but its a temporary fix and its not a BA list any more.

I will venture that we have been eclipsed in close combat with better armies at CC or huge amounts of shooting before we get there. Look at GK, the huge amount of shooting that Necrons put out and now 6th. I am not crying that it is the end of the world we are still pretty decent and better than the average MEQ but that margin of superiority has been reduced and will continue to reduce. I will enjoy the challenge because we have good stuff and it can work well with better choices than almost any other codex, just cant run towards the other side of the board like a red orc anymore.

 

Ravens, Death Company, Ravens, Libbies, Baals, Scoring scouts, Ravens, Mephiston, Assault troops who score, Cheap Razors, Ravens, Sanguinary flying terminators who can score, and Ravens. They are all pretty cool and more than enough to keep me going but moreso than everyone else as a specialist fast assault army BA have been forced to change. I assault less in my games I have only one or two assaults mostly its clean up after the shooting.

 

2 Ravens 2 Baals, 2 RAS 3 Attack bikes are my core

[ixzion]

6th Edition has gotten me closer games rather than being tabled or tabling opponents like what happened in 5th more often. Shooting against me is less effective, I find, than in 5th, but that's due to very strict unit placement and manipulation of cover. I played hybrid lists all through 5th edition with all or nothing results most times. But in 6th, I'm having closer, more fun games. Examples and reasoning to follow. I've played 6 or 7 games of 6th Ed.

 

List:

Divination Libby + JP

3 Assault Squads with PW, 1 has 2x melta, 1 has 2x flamer, 1 is mixed.

2 Priests + JP

Baal Pred

AC/LC Pred

SR

Furioso + DP + Frag cannon and Hvy Flamer

Vanguard Vets with PW, PF, melta bombs.

That's 3 shooty vehicles, mixed purpose furioso, 4 close combat units, 3 troops (sometimes one combat squadded).

 

The ICs spread evenly amongst the assault squads. The tactic is that they always advance. Against any army but Dark Eldar, I'm faster, so I can get there when the Drop Pod with Furioso and the VVets arrive turn 2 most times. They're never alone since I can jump/run and meet the enemy on turn 2. I haven't had a game of 6th ed yet where it took me turn 3 to get into close combat.

 

The flamer jumpers act as a screen with their priest and give cover saves to everyone else. But even against the most shooty necrons/Grey knights/Dark Eldar, they won't be wiped out until turn 2. There's just too many other threats coming in each turn. This allows me to take a charge with double flamers, or get a dummy charge where the stacked 2nd and 3rd assault squads can assist.

 

Using the bolt pistols before charging is key to making the assault decisive. Use your jump to get within 1-3" (on turn 2), then shoot (with more effect than Hammer of Wrath would have, normally) then charge. With re-rolls, only healthy terminators will stand up to that kind of punishment.

 

Enemies should be out of their transports between the StormRaven, the Predators, and the Furioso (if it lives to turn 2). Vanguard Vets will tie up their shooting elements, either infantry OR vehicles. If they get a disorganized charge against several vehicles - that's ok. I'm only losing 1 power fist attack and the other grenades would have only swung once anyway. Between the locator beacon and Descent of Angels, I'm making their Heroic Intervention MUCH more often in 6th edition.

 

Because I control the movement so much, I can make sure the sergeants and the priests are shielded by 4 or 5 casualties. People are not fast as us, so they can not swing all the way around to the other side and shoot a specific character out as often as feared when 6th drops. They'd have to outflank or something similar to do that, but you know if that's a risk when your opponent deploys.

 

I think 6th has been kind to us, in fact. If the assault that you get lasts a bit longer... GOOD! Then the unit is not sitting out getting shot during the opponent's turn! But if you absolutely need to break a unit, do it with 20 marines, not 10. 10 will hold them up, but it takes 20 to smash. TH/SS terminators, the toughest nut in the game, still won't survive 20 marines that shoot, charge, and half get rerolls to crack them.

 

20 bolt pistols = at least 1 unsaved wound. (hit on 3s, wound on 4s, Termies 2+ save) (not counting meltas or flamers)

2 ICs with 8 power SWORD attacks = .55 unsaved wounds (hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s, Termies 2+ save)

48 attacks from regular CCW = 2.5 unsaved wounds (hit on 4s, wound on 3s, Termies 2+ save)

8 Sergeant attacks with power SWORDS = 0.4 wounds (hit on 4s, wound on 3s, Termies 2+ save)

Combined total of 4.45

 

And that's without one of the two squads re-rolling their misses. So for example:

 

24 regular CCW marine attacks re-rolling misses means 1.9 unsaved wounds by themselves, meaning the total would be 3.15 unsaved wounds, an improvement of about 25%. But Prescience would also improve:

bolt pistols to 1.21 unsaved wounds total,

IC power SWORD attacks to .82 unsaved wounds total,

and Sergeants power SWORD attacks to .5 wounds total,

for a combined total of 5.68 unsaved wounds. or 22 percent better total, mixed unit.

 

This is a lot of math to show one thing: support is crucial, as well as never having a unit alone. Even my two tanks hang out nearby each other so they can whirl around and blow something up that comes close to threatening them. Whichever squad is screening and in the front, getting shot up, will move close to the Van Vets to give them Priest support when they get the charge. Furioso helps prepare a landing spot for the Vets, and distracts heavy shooting from my chargers. No one wants to charge the Furioso unless they're swarmlord or higher Init, like a Daemon Prince. Etc, etc, etc. It's a layered, finesse game, sure, but I think that's true of more things in 6th.

 

Playing a DraigoWing, I was able to jump a 2x melta combat squad right next to the Apothecary - making the rest of the paladins much easier to kill. Tricks like that were impossible before.

 

I love 6th edition.

 

Sounds like a really solid tactic and good advice! But aren't you making a misstake with your drop pod? Half of your drop pods (rounding up) has to make a drop pod assault, per the drop pod assault rule on page 32. I know it's not the main point of your post, but I just wanted to point it out. However I would prefer that the drop pods would arrive as normal deep strike (i.e. turn 2 and onwards) as it would be easier to make that unit support your other units or the other way around, as you described above. I'm planning on adding a drop pod to my army with some Sternguards but I'm still indecisive if I should...