Erasmus of Baal Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I've seen a few mentions around here of some way by which Feel no Pain was somehow buffed/boosted/improved in 6th Ed., and I just can't see how, as we now only successfully ignore the pain on a 5+ rather than a 4+. Could someone please point out to me what oddball rule piece I'm missing that improves FnP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 It is a pretty small buff. You used to lose it against things that ignored armor saves- AP1 and 2 weps and monstrous creatures. Now you always get to take FnP as long as instant death isn't a factor. So basically even though it is a 5+ rather than 4+, you get to take the save more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Would rather get old FnP back. You will take far more "normal" (i.e. AP4 and worse) wounds in the game than you ever will AP 1-2. Overall, feels like a nerf, not a buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Just wait til something unloads into you with a buttload of plasma. You'll be glad for it then. Yes its a nerf a lot of the time, as most AP1/2 things are strength 8 or above anyway... comprehensive list of AP1 or 2 things that are S7 or lower (or have the potential to be): plasma weapons, power axes, the occasional rending hit, death strike, eviscerator, executioner pistol, heat lance, ripper pistol, rod of covenant, shokk attack gun, spinneret rifle, starcannon, a triskele, and a zzap gun. This is from a scan of the weapon summary at the back of the book. You also now get it against power weapons and the occasional power fist (if a S3 model is carrying it). Its really good on bikers though... 5+ cover and 5+ FnP at all times if you move, unless you take a railgun to the face or something equally vicious. Frankly, I think its an improved rule overall, as FnP on a 4+ was a bit too good. Ignoring half of all the wounds you take turns you into something approaching a terminator against small arms fire for a fraction of the price (1 in 6 chance of failing a termy save, versus a 1 in 3 chance of failing a power armour save and ignoring half of those), its arguably better as if you duff your first save you get a second chance and the terminator doesn't. Its only game breaking on T5 or above models, as those are hard enough to wound as it is. And don't get me started on Epidemius. That's just broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Maikel Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Its only game breaking on T5 or above models, as those are hard enough to wound as it is. And don't get me started on Epidemius. That's just broken. Or Corbs. I love Corbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Just had an Apoc game vs Chaos, the plasmacannon hit on my RAS that bounced, the Sorceror with Force Sword that got splatted by my Power fist-toting Sergeant and the Slaneshii marines who attacked first with +1I and a Power Sword armed champion (also splatted by the sergeant next turn) and the Possessed who rolled AP3 CCW's would all disagree that FNP has been nerfed. It took a Daemon Prince to actually kill more than 1 of my marines a turn against all that lot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasmus of Baal Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Alright, I've got the idea. Thanks, guys. Or Corbs. I love Corbs. Me, too, Brother Maikel. Me, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 You have lost 5% against bolters, but gained 33% against plasma, power weapons ect. So it depends where your kills are coming from. I can happily take 6 plasma cannons and 6 plasma rifles. I easily took 15 plasma rifles in my guard list, and that was pre plasma tank! Against stuff like banshees you are well up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Being able to save plasma (which sees increased use now) and power weapons is way way better than the 4+ in 5th. I just love it :( You have lost 5% against bolters, but gained 33% against plasma, power weapons ect. also this (we lost 8%, but still ^^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I'm more pissed by the loss of +1 I from FC than I am by FNP being 5+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Instrument Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 ^ Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Gentlemen, I put forth a challenge to you. Over the next couple of games, write down how many models died from "4"s on regular FnP vice how many you saved from AP1/2 FnP saves. Perhaps I am wrong, but I strongly suspect that there will be more of the former than of the latter (though I would be quite happy to be proven incorrect). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 In my games I saved more marines against power weapons than I lost against bolters, I'm very sure of that. But of course it strongly depends on your matchup, I played quite some games against GK :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 @Ushtarador: tha would skew the results, yes :-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 maybe maybe^^ But what I forgot to mention - for me, the most valuable thing about FnP is the increased consistency. Your losses are nearer to the expected value with the second roll and you're far less prone to losing crucial units just because you had a bad streak. Since cover got mostly lowered to 5+, for me it is even more important to gain FnP against plasma and such to keep bad luck from ruining your day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Gentlemen, I put forth a challenge to you. Over the next couple of games, write down how many models died from "4"s on regular FnP vice how many you saved from AP1/2 FnP saves. Perhaps I am wrong, but I strongly suspect that there will be more of the former than of the latter (though I would be quite happy to be proven incorrect). Don't forget [seeing as we are comparing 5th ed FnP vs 6th] FnP previously offered no save VS power swords, it does now. Don't forget perils, too. And weird stuff like the dead man's hand. I would agree that FnP is much better now. Being able to save vs power weapons, plasma and rending assault cannons has saved my skin many a time. Getting a save at all vs those weapons is much, much more important than having an extra roll after your power armour failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Angelus Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 FNP saves have affectionately been renamed to "BS Saves" by my regular opponents, largely for thier ability to ignore the standard Marine killers; power weapons and plasma. I wouldn't go back to 5th's version. As Ush has said, they take the edge off a bad streak of Power Armour saves. More than a few times a flurry of 1's and 2's have been redeemed by a lucky pile of 5's on the reroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 tbh I find it pretty much the same as before, the nerf seems waited with the new things it protects you from. Got to admit I am most peeved at the loss of init bonus from Furious Charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodReavers Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I was more affected by the loss of initiative as well. But now I simply think of my FNP as essentially a 5+ invulnerable save against a lot of mid strength low ap shooting and melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Got to admit I am most peeved at the loss of init bonus from Furious Charge. I agree. It hurts to see us striking at the same initiative as Marines of lesser chapters. :D Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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