Emperor v Horus artwork from Neil Roberts

[Sister Kyrie]

As far as what you're thinking of: in fencing, particularly in sabre, there exists the "stop cut" (or skyhook), where you aim to angle over your opponent's bellguard to tap the back of their wrist as they extend for a regular or lowline lunge: http://img00.beijing2008.cn/20080812/Img214534366.jpg is a decent example that I can easily find, except ideally with more distance between the two of you to help make your opponent's attack fall short (if it lands, they will be awarded the touch). There are also a whole bunch of ways to "step in" against your opponent and get inside their normal attack reach which results in a lot of weird and cool looking vertical stabs and jumps:

http://binf.gmu.edu/jafri/fencing/lunge.gif

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fencingnet/4903379856/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/danjc003/7863074180/

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/05/...544_634x408.jpg

http://binaryapi.ap.org/2bae6746b6f5404a89...fdc917/460x.jpg

 

As far as the picture: I'm sure Baldini was backing up to draw Liangliang's lunge and then jumped to get above the regular-elevation attack, sweep... 7? (I don't know foil or epee lines, I mostly fence sabre) and then riposte, but it seems like Liandliang read it and angled his blade up on his lunge. The hand is not valid target area in foil, so there's no reason to be aiming for hand.

 

OKAY DONE NERDING OUT.

 

I'm not a big fan of the pose. It looks... off. I dunno. Something about it really bothers me, and while I think spins are a little silly, I could forgive him spinning... but something about how he's posed still seems very awkward and off for that to be the case. Like the different parts of his body aren't rotated where they should be if that's what he's doing, you know? I guess he deflected Horus' swipe with his own claws and that's the only reason his backside hasn't been raked.

 

I do have to say, aside from the Big E's pose, how obscured Horus is, and the fact that the eagle on his pommel is gripped to face him (pet peeve) I love the picture. Great, great mood.

 

Nothing wrong with Nerding out. :)

 

I wasn't thinking fencing specifically, that was just the best picture I could find to illustrate the kind of thing I was talking about. My background is stage combat, so much more historical sword-play based than fencing, but often with a big dash of "rule of cool" thrown in. I'm pretty sure we called it a stop thrust, but it is a bit different than the fencing move by the same/similar name. If I had more time, or could be bothered to put more effort into this ( :P ) I'd see if I could get a picture of me or my husband demonstrating. Don't think I'm going to get around to that, though.

 

Either way, yeah, the way he's drawn is kinda strange. Cool picture, but strange pose.

[Artemid]

Yeah, I kinda figured, but I couldn't resist spouting off a bit.

[Tyrannicide]

This is a big letdown. Some of Neil Roberts work has been remarkable. This, not so much. And it being the most pivotal moment of the Heresy is disappointing. I guess I'm in the minority.

[Hyaenidae]

No, you're not. Adrian Smith's vision, in my opinion, is light years better than this piece.

 

I do really like much of Neil's work, but this one is most definetley on the very bottom of the list.

[Wrath of Terra]

At first glance I particularly liked the view. Gives a sense that there's an entire war centred on these two beings.

 

Couple of things though;

 

Like most people I agree it'd be nice if Horus was more visable.

 

Isn't the Vengeful Spirit meant to be corrupt beyond belief? Fairly sure in the older fluff there's passages describing the walls being all alive and demonic and reaching out to drag down the boarding party if they could. The bridge in the picture looks very... clean.

 

Hard to miss Sanguinius' body but no sign of anything that could be the remains of Olanius Pious (swoon), instead there's just some boring Custodes (yawn) running along.

 

Also, does this now mean that this is the Emperor's "canon" face? :rolleyes:

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Also, does this now mean that this is the Emperor's "canon" face? :rolleyes:

Probably. It's too bad it looks like he's fighting constipation :P

[Pulse]

I wasn't thinking fencing specifically, that was just the best picture I could find to illustrate the kind of thing I was talking about. My background is stage combat, so much more historical sword-play based than fencing, but often with a big dash of "rule of cool" thrown in. I'm pretty sure we called it a stop thrust, but it is a bit different than the fencing move by the same/similar name. If I had more time, or could be bothered to put more effort into this ( ;) ) I'd see if I could get a picture of me or my husband demonstrating. Don't think I'm going to get around to that, though.

I'd rather not see "stage combat". It is bad enough watching people do that at castles, recreating battles and the like. Cringe worthy.

[Sons of Horus]

No wonder Horus became a traitor. He couldn't allow some pansy to lead the Imperium any longer :lol:

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

The other color piece has so much more atmosphere then this, it's good, but doesn't have the impact the older version has.

[Sister Kyrie]

I wasn't thinking fencing specifically, that was just the best picture I could find to illustrate the kind of thing I was talking about. My background is stage combat, so much more historical sword-play based than fencing, but often with a big dash of "rule of cool" thrown in. I'm pretty sure we called it a stop thrust, but it is a bit different than the fencing move by the same/similar name. If I had more time, or could be bothered to put more effort into this ( :P ) I'd see if I could get a picture of me or my husband demonstrating. Don't think I'm going to get around to that, though.

I'd rather not see "stage combat". It is bad enough watching people do that at castles, recreating battles and the like. Cringe worthy.

 

Sure, there's lots of bad "stage combat" out there, but there is also good stage combat (no quotes!). Have you seen a professional play that actually had well trained and rehearsed actors? Or watched an action movie? There is plenty of stage combat that is not "cringe worthy."

 

I'm trying very hard to be civil and not take your comment as a slap in face, but it's a bit hard to see it as anything else. I have personally trained actors from multiple professional opera companies, as well as performed in a professional capacity for years, and don't appreciate being lumped into the same category as random people banging swords together and then derided for it.

 

I suppose you had no way to know which category I was in, but that's no excuse to be rude.

[Pulse]

Sure, there's lots of bad "stage combat" out there, but there is also good stage combat (no quotes!). Have you seen a professional play that actually had well trained and rehearsed actors? Or watched an action movie? There is plenty of stage combat that is not "cringe worthy."

 

I'm trying very hard to be civil and not take your comment as a slap in face, but it's a bit hard to see it as anything else. I have personally trained actors from multiple professional opera companies, as well as performed in a professional capacity for years, and don't appreciate being lumped into the same category as random people banging swords together and then derided for it.

 

I suppose you had no way to know which category I was in, but that's no excuse to be rude.

In action movies, as far as i am aware (something i know quite a bit about as my cousins do that exact thing in training actors on film) are actual fighters either martial arts or have had years of training using old text books on sword combat, or in many cases have been professional fencers (Olympic standard) or other types, many also have learnt under sword masters from around the world, first hand.

 

Also, yes i am blunt - being in the army tends to stop you talking rubbish and get straight to the point.

[Sister Kyrie]

Sure, there's lots of bad "stage combat" out there, but there is also good stage combat (no quotes!). Have you seen a professional play that actually had well trained and rehearsed actors? Or watched an action movie? There is plenty of stage combat that is not "cringe worthy."

 

I'm trying very hard to be civil and not take your comment as a slap in face, but it's a bit hard to see it as anything else. I have personally trained actors from multiple professional opera companies, as well as performed in a professional capacity for years, and don't appreciate being lumped into the same category as random people banging swords together and then derided for it.

 

I suppose you had no way to know which category I was in, but that's no excuse to be rude.

In action movies, as far as i am aware (something i know quite a bit about as my cousins do that exact thing in training actors on film) are actual fighters either martial arts or have had years of training using old text books on sword combat, or in many cases have been professional fencers (Olympic standard) or other types, many also have learnt under sword masters from around the world, first hand.

 

Also, yes i am blunt - being in the army tends to stop you talking rubbish and get straight to the point.

 

Well, I can see that I won't be able to say anything that will convince you that I'm not full of it, so I'll just drop the matter.

[Hyperion]

Sure, there's lots of bad "stage combat" out there, but there is also good stage combat (no quotes!). Have you seen a professional play that actually had well trained and rehearsed actors? Or watched an action movie? There is plenty of stage combat that is not "cringe worthy."

 

I'm trying very hard to be civil and not take your comment as a slap in face, but it's a bit hard to see it as anything else. I have personally trained actors from multiple professional opera companies, as well as performed in a professional capacity for years, and don't appreciate being lumped into the same category as random people banging swords together and then derided for it.

 

I suppose you had no way to know which category I was in, but that's no excuse to be rude.

In action movies, as far as i am aware (something i know quite a bit about as my cousins do that exact thing in training actors on film) are actual fighters either martial arts or have had years of training using old text books on sword combat, or in many cases have been professional fencers (Olympic standard) or other types, many also have learnt under sword masters from around the world, first hand.

 

Also, yes i am blunt - being in the army tends to stop you talking rubbish and get straight to the point.

 

You are getting straight to the point, but it seems to me you're still talking rubbish.

 

Just because you're not an Olympic level fencer doesn't mean you can't demonstrate some skill with a sword, or look cool, or both. Yes, in action movies the stuntmen are usually highly trained martial artists, but that is not necessarily directly related to their sword-wielding skills.

 

Sister Kyrie already agreed with you that there are bad examples of staged swordplay, but pointed out that there are also good examples. Without having seen what she does, it seems a bit more than 'blunt' for you to dismiss her so readily.

 

I'll be blunt - you're being a jerk!

[Pulse]

Just because you're not an Olympic level fencer doesn't mean you can't demonstrate some skill with a sword, or look cool, or both. Yes, in action movies the stuntmen are usually highly trained martial artists, but that is not necessarily directly related to their sword-wielding skills.

Thats simply not the case. Many of the experts brought on to train the actors are from eastern martial arts backgrounds (a whole variety of them use knives, short or long swords etc). Generally though most are not and are, as i stated before, ex professionals, historical swordsman that have pored for years over old manuals and through years of practice almost perfected their art as best as modern standards can be, and in many cases many of them have been taught by master swordsman from various cultures around the world.

 

Also funnily enough the best sword sequences on film are the ones where none, or at least very little "cool" is added in because thats not the point of swordsmanship, unless of course they are replicating a specific culture or style of swordsmanship that might have a legitimate leap or a spin.

 

I'll be blunt - you're being a jerk!

Heartbroken!

[MadDoc]

I'll be blunt - you're being a jerk!

+1

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

Pulse is the forum's go-to guy for worldwide swordmaster-level knowledge, lads (and lasses). :D

[spu00sed]

All this talk of using a sword and looking cool reminds me of my freshman year of uni.

 

I joined the fencing club, for something to do.

 

They would train us in simple strikes and parries and then set us against each other with a vet overseeing and telling us how we scored a point, in all their long fencing jargon.

 

Twice in one match I confused the ref.

 

First time I managed a parry, followed by a 360 spin to score a blow on the opponent.

 

Second time I parried, jumped past the opponent, reserved my grip and caught them in the back.

 

 

Both times the ref just looked blank and gave me the point.

 

 

My point. Even in a serious match you will try something crazy and cool to win.

[MadDoc]

Pulse is the forum's go-to guy for worldwide swordmaster-level knowledge, lads (and lasses). :lol:

Pity he has yet to show anything to suggest that... ;)

 

(And just to be clear I did see the smiley and realise you were being sarcastic, so was I)

[Aqui]

I'm surprised that no one has noticed (or not posted) the fact that there seems to be something that looks like a Star Gate (albeit without the "Glyphs") to the right side of the picture at the back.....

 

I can almost imagine SG-1 passing through it and instantly regret doing so! :P

[MadDoc]

I'm surprised that no one has noticed (or not posted) the fact that there seems to be something that looks like a Star Gate (albeit without the "Glyphs") to the right side of the picture at the back.....

All I see is a large raised 'Eye of Terra' on the wall behind what appears to be Horus' throne.

[Pulse]

Pulse is the forum's go-to guy for worldwide swordmaster-level knowledge, lads (and lasses). :P

Pity he has yet to show anything to suggest that... :P

You'll be suprised what is done at Sandhurst military academy, where i regularly lecture alongside Dr Adrian Goldsworthy in military history lectures and practical lessons. Thats when i am not actually back on base with my regiment, of course. ;) :D

 

But yeahhhh modern militaries always need swordsmanship classes, because you know, we still fight with swords.... ;)

 

I'm surprised that no one has noticed (or not posted) the fact that there seems to be something that looks like a Star Gate (albeit without the "Glyphs") to the right side of the picture at the back.....

All I see is a large raised 'Eye of Terra' on the wall behind what appears to be Horus' throne.

Yeh its this, i am not sure if its designed as anything in particular or just a large symbol of the eye but i think the artist is keeping the old pictures details alive by keeping it.

[Gorthaur]

This version is a bit boring for me. The huge open windows in the back kind of remind me of Star Wars a bit...like with the star windows with Anakin vs Dooku/whatever other duels. This piece just simply isnt dark and brutal enough IMO, Adrian Smiths version is always how I will look at the duel between Horus And the Emperor. Looking like they are just about to fight. Horus looked like a freaking monster in that peice of art...like evil incarnate.

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

Pulse is the forum's go-to guy for worldwide swordmaster-level knowledge, lads (and lasses). :P

Pity he has yet to show anything to suggest that... :P

You'll be suprised what is done at Sandhurst military academy, where i regularly lecture alongside Dr Adrian Goldsworthy in military history lectures and practical lessons. Thats when i am not actually back on base with my regiment, of course. ;) :P

 

Sure hope you don't drop swords as well as you drop names. ;)

[Pulse]

Sure hope you don't drop swords as well as you drop names. :tu:

;)

[MadDoc]

You know what they say about name droppers... :tu: