Iron Sage Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Honestly, it's poor etiquette on your part for not drop-kicking him in the face. Uh, because garnering an assault charge over a game of toy soldiers is a good idea . . . :) I was going to but with the difficult terrain of Chic-Filet between him and I, I failed my assault range and instead ate my delicious yet homophobic chicken sammich! DONT JUDGE! Lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Here's the thing that *I* would have called him on. A TFC is 100 points. A bare-bones C:SM Vindi is 115. So unless he dropped a Marine from a squad somewhere, he was probably over-pointing you, to boot. As a respectful and intelligent player, I'm glad you whooped him. As a C:SM player, I'd like to apologize for his indiscretion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Here's the thing that *I* would have called him on. A TFC is 100 points. A bare-bones C:SM Vindi is 115. So unless he dropped a Marine from a squad somewhere, he was probably over-pointing you, to boot. As a respectful and intelligent player, I'm glad you whooped him. As a C:SM player, I'd like to apologize for his indiscretion. I'm glad you apologized. Was about to do something nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilicate Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 It's just a game guys... It is completely poor form to do do the switcharoo however. If it were me, I'd have let it fly too (just like you did), and then after the game explained that using quick swaps and tailored lists like he did isn't going to make him a better player in the long run. He's got to learn how to deal with stuff on the table with what he has. If he's not interested in hearing that, I wouldn't care if he switches his army list after he sees mine. He's not going to get any better, so it doesn't matter what he takes. You're going to to continue to beat him every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellrender Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I totally agree with most said here, and i am verry happy you won XD But.. explaining such a situation after one lost is rather... hard. ''I lost.. but only because you cheated..'', I dont know, it just feel less dignified that way. But thats not how it turned out now, and i am very happy he had an ''in your face'' moment ;) (what goes around...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 I totally agree with most said here, and i am verry happy you won XD But.. explaining such a situation after one lost is rather... hard. ''I lost.. but only because you cheated.. I dont know, it just feel less dignified that way''. But thats not how it turned out now, and i am very happy he had an ''in your face'' moment ;) (what goes around...) I totally pulled my pants down and the whole "crotch thurst" in his direction after it was over. . . Then I made out with his wife right in front of him, was truly an all around victory for me. It was honestly a tight game, I do not seem to get those very often anymore so I was very happy for that. He got the first turn and I didnt get the last turn, store was getting short on time to close so we added up VPs and I was ahead by two so we just called it. Would have been a few more but still a very contested matchup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellrender Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 argh,. just saw that my quote ended way to late >.< edited it now though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 It has happened a few times in my gameclub and usually during our weekly sessions and such players were banned from the game, conceding points to the adversary. We have a rule that before every game you have to present the word/excel list of your army and if you switch at games notice you are than resigned to another board or simply banned from the game if there are many players around who wait for the board. Still it would not be bad form in my gameclub if the player had switched the Vindicator before the dice have been rolled. I usually keep point costs written on my list for every additional or switch unit, but again you have to have the model with you. Long story short it was a bad form and you played it cool, much credit to you sir, I would have called the referee asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Defo poor form... And I think you handled it perfectly. It was a friendly game with someone you didn't know, so by ignoring it at the moment you allowed the game to continue in a friendly fashion without the awkwardness that a rebuke would cause. But by addressing it at the end, you hopefully taught the fellow a much-needed lesson which could save him from an unpleasant situation in the future with a less-cordial opponent! Also, it was critical that you win so that what you said at the end wouldn't come across as sour grapes. Bravo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I too agree you handled it perfectly. If a guy looked over at my army & was like, ''aww man, you have 3 of those uber flyers of doom, can I please take my Hydras instead of xyz?'' I'd be like, cool yeah go for it. However, if he sneakily spotted my uber flyers of doom & then tried to sneak in said Hydras or change his list I'd be like, '':) dude!? You deserve a beating now! Get those illegal Hydras in your box!!'' See, it's down to being up-front, reasonable & friendly/fun. No one wants to play a cheat but at the same time playing someone who is miserable/nasty is also a drag & frankly playing someone who is getting their arse kicked is no fun either. Hate it when games get called in turn 3. Just my thoughts. Dallas Edit: That's a 40k beating & not a fists beating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I totally pulled my pants down and the whole "crotch thurst" in his direction after it was over. . .Then I made out with his wife right in front of him, was truly an all around victory for me. Glad to see you didnt over-react, but next time he pulls out a Vindi, have that allied BA melta death team ready to go ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaysoffside Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 and he got a war lord trait? surely, magicly changing a unit once your oppo has set up is already a warlord trait. I'd have said something early doors. Other wise if you loss and bing it up, it looks sour grapes. Way back at a gaming club we ran a random player thing. 6 payers a week would bing an all comers army. with permission before dice were thrown you could do a "bit" of rejigging. But you had about 5 minuets so restruture was out of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 and he got a war lord trait? surely, magicly changing a unit once your oppo has set up is already a warlord trait. I'd have said something early doors. Other wise if you loss and bing it up, it looks sour grapes. Way back at a gaming club we ran a random player thing. 6 payers a week would bing an all comers army. with permission before dice were thrown you could do a "bit" of rejigging. But you had about 5 minuets so restruture was out of the question. I don't lose so it isn't a big deal :rolleyes: Unless you count those games I did BA counts as Chaos before our new codex came out. Was 0-13 :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 You handled it with far more calm than I would have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I don't think its worth getting all crusader over. It was definitely poor form, but I'm thinking perhaps the guy was used to switching out things at the last moment amongst his regular group. It certainly is strange however, I'm not sure how he thought changing things mid deployment would be acceptable. Perhaps insist on open lists before hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 You handled it with far more calm than I would have... Really? How upset was he supposed to get? Say the guy made an honest mistake based on habits with gaming friends. If you flew off the wall at him then it hardly makes you better. The best thing to do would simply mention that its generally considered poor form to alter lists once the games begun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payce Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I would have congratulated him on his victory, and packed up my stuff. I don't spend 10+ hours converting and painting every model in my army to waste time playing cheats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Again though, it wasn't exactly overt cheating. You have no evidence the guy was doing it maliciously. Besides it didn't even help him win :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Really? How upset was he supposed to get? Somewhere between derisive mocking and wholesale slaughter of every person related by blood or marriage to the cheat (that would be my initial response choice)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Eh, maybe I'm just more TCGer than I thought, but a little bit of side-decking seems normal... Then again, I've never actually encountered someone doing it in 40k, so I don't really know how I'd personally react. ^^; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Eh, maybe I'm just more TCGer than I thought, but a little bit of side-decking seems normal... Then again, I've never actually encountered someone doing it in 40k, so I don't really know how I'd personally react. ^^; True, but I would hope that you never swapped your sideboard in after your opponent had already drawn his hand and played his first turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 You handled it with far more calm than I would have... Really? How upset was he supposed to get? Say the guy made an honest mistake based on habits with gaming friends. If you flew off the wall at him then it hardly makes you better. The best thing to do would simply mention that its generally considered poor form to alter lists once the games begun. Yeah, I do not think he meant it with any malice in mind. I think he simply saw it was a better option vs my list (it wasn't, the Thunderfire would have been tons better) and he 100% thought it was okay to do it. He was open about it, when I asked he said exactly what he was doing, and when I said that it was "poor form" he said "well you can swap stuff out if you want". So I really really do not think he thought it was wrong at all, I started the thread to ask if this was normal for peoples gaming group or not. In my gaming group this is NOT normal, once the game starts (deployment) it is a sealed deal. I did talk to him afterwards about it and he didn't say much, just sorta shrugged it off and then we moved on to topics about the game and how things went down. I explained to him on how to handle Daemons a little better as he really seemed to struggle with the idea of how fast they crawled up his ass. What I did find weird is that he was a stickler for ever rule to the letter, like he absolutely forced my hand in doing the rotating terrain setup and I 100% despise that rule as it usually makes the board not look as good as it should, so I probably should have pointed out that step #1 is "Write up your army list" but I didn't want to dwell on it as he didn't seem to understand fully what I was getting at. So to reiterate, I asked if I was overreacting because I have never had this happen and wasn't sure if this was a common thing in non-tourny games or something. I know my normal gaming group (and we are lax as can be with each other, we use frigging transformers as Titans in our Apoc battles) but we have never pulled something like that on anyone else. So yeah, just wanted to know and it seems the vast vast majority see it as poor form or a way of cheating (and it is cheating). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 True, but I would hope that you never swapped your sideboard in after your opponent had already drawn his hand and played his first turn. ... true. On the other hand, since decks generally work on archetypes and you normally know that kind of deck someone is playing before hand, the same kind of foreknowledge can be kind of applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circus Nurgling Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Yeah, it's cheating. To respond to stuff that I have a problem with, I usually just break the book out with the excuse that it's a new rulebook anyhow, and we shouldn't be expecting old habits to work the same as they did before (usually worded "well, let's look it up then"). If I can't find it, or if there's a sorted interpretation of meaning, I usually call for a second opinion from someone in the know. Failing that, flip a coin or do a roll-off, highest di wins the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Just to throw a curve ball out there, please dont jump on me, but Since I tend to play against only one or 2 people much (never have time to make it to stores etc) so we're on a fairly familiar level, and we do change stuff out if we can see its going to be very one sided (back in 5th I was running a themed/story driven guard list with very little ap2 in it and mate was trying out his new fancy grey knight termie/pala list, so let me drop a couple of squads and upgrade to demos from normal russ's). This sort of trading up/rejiging we see as normal before the game begins. Granted after set up was a bit bad form, but if you'd seen each others lists first then he jsut hadnt got round to changing models that were out but had already realised he'd want to change it.... Guess from look of it, how I play is very much not the norm, but I dont know how comfortable I'd be to do this when I next have a pick up game so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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