Brother_Dan'l Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 After playing 40K since Rogue Trader, and taking a year off after facing 5 Grey Knights armies in a 6 game tournament, I'm having a really hard time getting excited about 6th edition. Hell, I haven't even read the rules yet! <_< Maybe I just need to stay away from the non-Marine specific boards where all I seem to see are posts by people trying their hardest to find the most OP ally mix for their armies. I really want to break in my cool new BA dice, but not if I have to face some preposterous mix of units that really don't belong together. And, well, I'm suffering from a big dose of "another-damn-set-of-rules?-itis" and that's what's really held me back. Not that I loved 5e, just that I'm kind of apathetic about facing yet another set of GW's RAW vs RAI and crappy editing learning curves. My poor Blood Angels are gathering dust faster than an air filter in a kitty litter factory! :( Help me. Please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Maybe I just need to stay away from the non-Marine specific boards where all I seem to see are posts by people trying their hardest to find the most OP ally mix for their armies Does this even apply to your casual gaming group/ FLGS? If not, then you could consider to quit tourneys in 6th, because the ally inclusion is going to be huge unless otherwise ruled by the organisators. I really want to break in my cool new BA dice, but not if I have to face some preposterous mix of units that really don't belong together. I've had it with allies, I don't like what many people are doing with the concept. If you can focus on casual games, however, the OP allies shouldn't be a problem if your environment is less competitive. They can even be true to the background! For a start, picking up the small rulebook from Dark Vengeance is a good way to accustom yourself to the changes in the rules. Many changes are small, however there's quite a few that have a big impact on how Blood Angels play on the table. 6th edition is an improvement to 5th in many aspects, I suggest you give it a try and play some friendly games. :( Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 6th Ed is some of the most fun, enjoyable and cinematic gaming ive had since 2nd Ed. I highly, highly recommend it. In tournies, depending on your environment, you will come up against mixed bags, no doubt. But try more social gaming. The BA are great fun and have some decent options available to them. Also, with allies theres nothing stopping you from bringing awesome SM elements into your lists as counts as BA stuff. Its a lot better than you'd think because the opening up of allies means that the OP codicies can be combatted a little easier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemis360 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I really don't find allies to be much of a problem. The main problem I have is with the unecessary nerf to close combat which really sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 6 th ed is a very good edition. Much more fun than 5th. If you don't like tournament players bringing powerful armies...don't go to tournaments. I think you'll find more variance in the armies you see at tournies as 6th goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 More so than any other part of the game, alliances are really what you make of it. Allying an inquisitor and GK squad into a marine force? Awesome. Allying guard and marines against a xenos force? Makes sense. Chaos Space Marines and a Daemonic incursion bearing down on a forge world? A-OK. Where it goes off the rails is people trying to break it, which is thankfully comparatively rare. You don't have to ally if you don't want to... a lot of people were doing it at ToS at the weekend, but nobody was really cheesing it up (except one 'cron player, who did it without allies). I went purist and managed to take best BA, so you don't need allies to be competitive. In fact, all the armies I played against were also pure forces. Go down to your FLGS or GW or gaming group. Take your favourite army (BA, naturally). Ask someone if they wouldn't mind playing an introductory game of 6th ed... keep it small, without allies for the first few goes round. And just generally see how you feel once you've given it a few games. I can't promise you'll like it, but you should at least give it a shot. What do you have to lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinful eyes Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I was also skeptical about allies going into 6th, but I now feel that it really ads a lot of variety to the game! I was at a 2k tournament a while back and I never played against the same army twice. I played against IG as a main detachment twice, but one of them had BA allies whilst the other one had SW allies. Despite having large amounts of guardsmen the lists played really differently. I played 2 games against the new chaos marines, one had daemon allies and one did not. Again, the allies really added some flavor to the one list, whilst the lack of them made the other army completely different, despite coming from the same codex. Honestly, I have yet to see a allied army that I thought was more cheesy than what a purist army would be able to put out. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 6th is a step up from 5th. A better feel and an overall more lax attitude. But since you've been playing since RT, why don't get down with your group and make up the 'perfect' rules set. You've gone through 5 editions and undoubtedly just as many house rules. You should have the experience to make your own to your tastes - and ensure compatibility with future models. And just quit tourneys - or stop competing to win, as you'll have to end up a powercreep on a bandwagon. Plenty of us tourney players go to show off our armies, marvel at others and just to hang with new likeminded people. Why so serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arryn Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 6th Ed is some of the most fun, enjoyable and cinematic gaming ive had since 2nd Ed. I highly, highly recommend it. In tournies, depending on your environment, you will come up against mixed bags, no doubt. But try more social gaming. The BA are great fun and have some decent options available to them. Also, with allies theres nothing stopping you from bringing awesome SM elements into your lists as counts as BA stuff. Its a lot better than you'd think because the opening up of allies means that the OP codicies can be combatted a little easier +1 This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I am yet to see one ally combination that dominates everyone else. Necrons with allied Grey Knights isnt amazing. Even Grey Knights or Necrons mono-builds are less powerful than initially thought if you play the missions rather than annihilation style slugfests. 6th is the most balanced and open edition of the game which is weighted heavily towards taking a balanced force and using good generalship to win, not point and click auto win armies like GK PsyBack spam or even old IG Leafblowers. It's really a great revision of the game and you are missing out by not trying it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordenkenain Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 speaking as a necron player, I have yet to meet anyone who wanted to include allies that were 'unfluffy', sure all us crons spotted that they could ally with GK, but very few players want to, as it MAKES NO SENSE seriously, just try a few games at your FLGS, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how the allies rules are being applied by people, the most common ones being run seem to be: IG/SM(or variant) SM/SM CSM/CD or Eldar/Deldar(which is intended as a corsair raiders force) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 From what I've read of online tourney reports and such (so huge pinch of salt, as its just an impression I've gained from reading these rather than any personal experience), the reason some builds and alliances are game-breaking is because of the tournament missions. All are (effectively) the same using some combination of multiple victory conditions, so you can relatively easily min-max an army to dominate one area and play for that. Its a lot fairer if you use the rulebook Eternal War missions, as it forces you to build a balanced army to be able to effectively compete across all six mission choices (example: I steamrollered a Forge World Eldar Corsair list a wee while back because we were playing The Relic, whereas any other mission would have likely led to an Eldar edge in Big Guns, Kill Points and Scouring, and something more balanced in Emperor's Will and Crusade). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Although ironically, Necron Flyer spam is rather inneffective in Nova missions but very good in Rulebook missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 speaking as a necron player, I have yet to meet anyone who wanted to include allies that were 'unfluffy', sure all us crons spotted that they could ally with GK, but very few players want to, as it MAKES NO SENSE I dunno, I've seen a lot of CSM/Tau and other funky combination, mostly xeno/imperial lists that makes little sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarrower Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I really don't find allies to be much of a problem. The main problem I have is with the unecessary nerf to close combat which really sucks. Amen! The other thing is if you didn't like playing Grey Knights before, you'll probably like it even less now at least from an assault perspective since we lost the bonus to Initiative with Furious Charge. Hang in there though. For as much as the game has changed how the Blood Angels play, this is definitely by FAR, the best edition of 40K to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Dan'l Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 Okay, I'll give it a read. I've got a Halloween enforced two week gaming pause coming up. (Wednesday is my game night and my daughters, not to mention my wife, would kill me if I went to the FLGS) Other than AP changes to power weapons ;) is there anything else that is going to tick me off about the new version. Anything that makes you say ":P were they thinking!"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Okay, I'll give it a read. I've got a Halloween enforced two week gaming pause coming up. (Wednesday is my game night and my daughters, not to mention my wife, would kill me if I went to the FLGS) Other than AP changes to power weapons ;) is there anything else that is going to tick me off about the new version. Anything that makes you say ":P were they thinking!"? Pregame setup is a PITA if done according to the book, but many people (tourneys in particular) ignore parts of it or house rule anyway. Random rolls for everything and very stupid stuff like random nightfight after deployment. Makes you wonder if everyone deploys wearing blindfolds. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Nightfight is AFTER deployment? How stupid is that? o0 Since everything is supposed to be cinematic and whatnot now, we just roll before deploying so you can actually make strategic decisions when deploying, we never even thought it could be different... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adorondak Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 according to the rulebook, you roll for nightfighting before deployment. Taken directly out of the rulebook: "If a mission has the night fighting special rule, roll a d6 before deployment: on a roll of 4+, the night fighting special rule is in effect during game turn 1" What I really like about the rule though is that if you don't roll a 4+ for night fighting before deployment, on turn 5 and each turn after that you start rolling again and on the first 4+ night fighting is in effect for the rest of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Nightfight is AFTER deployment? How stupid is that? No. it's after. pg. 124 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Nightfight is AFTER deployment? How stupid is that? No. it's after. pg. 124 Well, that's one houserule we're not gonna change for certain.. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 according to the rulebook, you roll for nightfighting before deployment. Taken directly out of the rulebook: "If a mission has the night fighting special rule, roll a d6 before deployment: on a roll of 4+, the night fighting special rule is in effect during game turn 1" How many times have I gone through that and still managed to get it wrong? :D Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Nightfight is AFTER deployment? How stupid is that? No. it's after. pg. 124 Well, that's one houserule we're not gonna change for certain.. ^^ I had a mad brainfart there. I actually posted to correct it, and wound up not....sorry. It's before. Its def. def. before. Roll for nightfight before deployment! Sorry guys!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Nightfight is AFTER deployment? How stupid is that? No. it's after. pg. 124 Well, that's one houserule we're not gonna change for certain.. ^^ I had a mad brainfart there. I actually posted to correct it, and wound up not....sorry. It's before. Its def. def. before. Roll for nightfight before deployment! Sorry guys!! :lol: Happens to all, we'll just keep our eyes peeled xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chris Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 My feeling that 6th ed is both more rational and more 'cinematic' (closer to the RPG end - special characters have a spotlight on them, there are more surprise twists.) Many aspects of Apocalypse have migrated to the standard game. Allies and Flyers were effectively in that, but 6th ed integrates them far more sensibly. Things which effect my playing adversely - Dante is a cumbersomecharacter who has to wait till the end of comabt before using all his attacks because the amazing Axe Mortalis counts as a regular slow axe. Seems crazy. The Death Company don't seem to be crazy any more. Unless I am reading the rules wrong, they seem to be under your control. Lemartes wounded rage. Now units get shot nearest first, with a 'look out Sir' mechanic potentially alllowing another model to be killed instead of the special character, getting it, wounding Lemartes but not killing him takes some juggling. Feel no pain is less good, but fairer to other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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