independent character armour

[skeletoro]

So, it seems that having a 2+ save is all the rage these days, partly due to the fact that many melee weapons are now AP3.

 

Independent characters get a 2+ LoS save, so when they are assigned hits, they can divert them to their retinue.

 

My question is: Is it worth 20 points for runic armour, when an independent character is leading a squad of TDA models (e.g. Wolf Guard)? The character pretty much already has a 2+ save.

 

The only reasons I can really think of for buffing up an independent character's armour are:

 

You want to put them out the front to intercept and redivert all incoming fire (i.e. onto the models you prefer)

You want to be protected in the event that the squad is wiped out and you are the last man standing.

You want to be protected in the event that the character chooses to leave the squad or deploy with a different squad (e.g. a Grey Hunters pack).

 

Any other reasons or is that about it?

[RipherChost]

I suspect the best armour choice would be situational in the end...

 

For me, if I was running all TDA escort for my HQ I would most likely have my HQ in TDA making runic armour pointless. Note I would only run this unit for it's cool factor. Forgoing cool factor bear in mind that skipping out on TDA for your HQ in this unit then allows the use of his grenades.

 

However if I had a mixed TDA with PA wolf guard then my HQ would most probably be sporting runic armour.

 

I would be far more likely to throw my HQ in with a grey hunter pack which I would then choose runic armour again.

 

I dont get runic armour for my back field Rune Priest.

[WG Vrox]

In any PA situation RA is now a must have for my ICs. I have been running an outflanking WP with a PP and would never consider not putting RA on the model for all the reasons you mentioned. In an all or mostly TDA unit, now that the extra psychic save is no longer valid, I would just bring the TDA especially for a RP as he would benefit from the 5+ invol save.

 

I don't get runic armour for my back field Rune Priest.

 

I used to do this when I put my RP in with my Long Fangs as if a AP 3 or higher hit came into my group and I still had 2 wounds on my RP, I would assign the wound to him. This is not as valid with 6th edition because of new wound assignment rules, but still not a bad way to keep your long fangs at full strength for as long as possible.

 

On a three wound IC model, I will put him out in front with either RA or TDA. Between the (look out sir) and the extra wounds on the model its a great way to manage the risk in trying to keep the unit numbers high and negating to many wounds going to the IC. The method is the same assign AP3 hits to the IC first and (look out sir) the rest. Can be a risky tactic but one to keep in your tool box in the right situations.

 

 

Vrox.

[skeletoro]

In any PA situation RA is now a must have for my ICs. I have been running an outflanking WP with a PP and would never consider not putting RA on the model for all the reasons you mentioned. In an all or mostly TDA unit, now that the extra psychic save is no longer valid, I would just bring the TDA especially for a RP as he would benefit from the 5+ invol save.

 

I don't get runic armour for my back field Rune Priest.

 

I used to do this when I put my RP in with my Long Fangs as if a AP 3 or higher hit came into my group and I still had 2 wounds on my RP, I would assign the wound to him. This is not as valid with 6th edition because of new wound assignment rules, but still not a bad way to keep your long fangs at full strength for as long as possible.

 

On a three wound IC model, I will put him out in front with either RA or TDA. Between the (look out sir) and the extra wounds on the model its a great way to manage the risk in trying to keep the unit numbers high and negating to many wounds going to the IC. The method is the same assign AP3 hits to the IC first and (look out sir) the rest. Can be a risky tactic but one to keep in your tool box in the right situations.

 

 

Vrox.

 

If your character is independent, it seems totally viable to put them out the front. Not only can you choose to suck up all AP3s, but you can choose who dies when you LoS! the AP2s. When some models in the unit are cheaper or less useful, this could be amazing.

[Wulfebane]

If your character is independent, it seems totally viable to put them out the front. Not only can you choose to suck up all AP3s, but you can choose who dies when you LoS! the AP2s. When some models in the unit are cheaper or less useful, this could be amazing.

 

At work, so can't check.. but I thought it was FAQ'd to be only the closest model can take an LoS! save for their commander?

[WG Vrox]

If your character is independent, it seems totally viable to put them out the front. Not only can you choose to suck up all AP3s, but you can choose who dies when you LoS! the AP2s. When some models in the unit are cheaper or less useful, this could be amazing.

 

Yes it is amazing. but still something to be careful with.

[skeletoro]

If your character is independent, it seems totally viable to put them out the front. Not only can you choose to suck up all AP3s, but you can choose who dies when you LoS! the AP2s. When some models in the unit are cheaper or less useful, this could be amazing.

 

At work, so can't check.. but I thought it was FAQ'd to be only the closest model can take an LoS! save for their commander?

 

I was unsure too so I'd already checked - it seems to just be "any model within 6""

 

Which is pretty fantastic, really. It certainly seems to make fenrisian wolves worth their weight in gold as lascannon/melta fodder. It's a pity that wolf/rune priests don't seem to get access to them!! Still, good for Wolf lords.

[Valerian]

My question is: Is it worth 20 points for runic armour, when an independent character is leading a squad of TDA models (e.g. Wolf Guard)? The character pretty much already has a 2+ save.

 

Yes, I believe it is still worth it. The one situation that you failed to address was challenges. You can't LoS! away wounds from a challenge, and you are going to want that 2+ Save when you can get it to remove a whole category of weapons from taking away your save completely (e.g. Power Swords and similar AP3 close combat weapons).

 

If your character is independent, it seems totally viable to put them out the front. Not only can you choose to suck up all AP3s, but you can choose who dies when you LoS! the AP2s. When some models in the unit are cheaper or less useful, this could be amazing.

 

At work, so can't check.. but I thought it was FAQ'd to be only the closest model can take an LoS! save for their commander?

 

You are correct, Wulfebane, the updated rulebook Errata changed LoS! to nearest model:

 

Page 16 – Shooting Phase, Look Out, Sir

Change the second sentence of the second bullet point to:

“Determine which model in the unit is closest to the character,

and resolve the Wound against that model instead.”

 

Valerian

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

If your character is independent, it seems totally viable to put them out the front. Not only can you choose to suck up all AP3s, but you can choose who dies when you LoS! the AP2s. When some models in the unit are cheaper or less useful, this could be amazing.

 

At work, so can't check.. but I thought it was FAQ'd to be only the closest model can take an LoS! save for their commander?

 

I was unsure too so I'd already checked - it seems to just be "any model within 6""

 

Which is pretty fantastic, really. It certainly seems to make fenrisian wolves worth their weight in gold as lascannon/melta fodder. It's a pity that wolf/rune priests don't seem to get access to them!! Still, good for Wolf lords.

 

Page 26 – Assault phase, Look Out, Sir

Change the fourth sentence of the first paragraph to:

“Determine which model in the unit is closest to the character,

and resolve the Wound against that model instead.”

[Wulfebane]

So nice, they wrote it in twice.

[Rizara]

Interesting thread, but I am apparently overlooking the one comment that keeps reappearing. How exactly is the extra psychic save invalid now. I haven't played a game yet in 6th, and working on my army as it is, just curious how it is now invalid since it says its against any psychic wound on said model. Even if you have a RP around to nullify the attack, wouldn't the extra save come in handy if the attack didn't get nullified and it actually wounds your character.

Either way, Runic armor is still the same price as artificer armor, so I am just curious how it is now invalid.

 

Generally speaking though, I would definitely say TDA armor is better overall as an upgrade for characters as it provides an invunerable save too for only a few points more. However, it also depends really on the unit and ride that unit is sporting. Sometimes its nice to not have the bulkiness of TDA so you can fit more bodies in the transport, especially if you are already planning to take a stormshield or Belt of Russ on your lord. I am personally taking a runic armor wolf lord with my TDA unit of wolfguard in a drop pod. I am looking at putting a power armor guy in their for cannon fodder purposes as well, so its 4 TDA and one power armor wolfguard, with my runic wearing lord who is sporting a stormshield. Mostly its for looks, but I also like to change up my characters placement from time to time as well. So maybe one game I decide to leave my TDA guard at home, I can still take my wolf lord and toss him in with some grey hunters every now and then and ride in that rhino.

[Wulfebane]

IIRC, most recent FAQ states you can only pick one psychic save, meaning stacking psychic defenses has been abolished.

[WG Vrox]

Page 26 – Assault phase, Look Out, Sir

Change the fourth sentence of the first paragraph to:

“Determine which model in the unit is closest to the character,

and resolve the Wound against that model instead."

 

And after that save you LoS the next wound and after that the next. Even if that model fails his armor save there is another new closest model to do LoS even in the same shooting phase. Just make sure the closest model is a model that's ok to lose. However what I think the FAQ limits is you can no longer go from model to model if the first one fails the LoS roll, thus allowing multiple models to roll LoS for the same wound allocation.

 

edit: had to rephrase that to make sense

[skeletoro]

I guess the main thing is that you cannot always divert the wound to the most advantageous target.

 

E.g. you hit with a lascannon - divert to fenrisian wolf or storm-shield model.

 

You'd need to make sure that your preferred LoS! buddy was the nearest model (hard to do, especially when that one dies and LoS! is targeting the NEXT closest)

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

I guess the main thing is that you cannot always divert the wound to the most advantageous target.

 

E.g. you hit with a lascannon - divert to fenrisian wolf or storm-shield model.

 

You'd need to make sure that your preferred LoS! buddy was the nearest model (hard to do, especially when that one dies and LoS! is targeting the NEXT closest)

 

Formations help with this. Particularly if you make sure through measurement that you have several different models the EXACT same distance away from the IC. If you have 3 models that are all 2" exactly away from the IC and the IC is positioned to make the LoS! check then you'll get to choose. If using a Lord then you can have a regular model, a SS model, and a FW all exactly 2" away to abuse this.

[Max_Dammit]

that whole continue LoS makes me laugh, I can see it now with a swarm army. people jumping left and right in front of every bullet coming the way of the commander.

 

 

Realistic to be sure :)

[skeletoro]

I guess the main thing is that you cannot always divert the wound to the most advantageous target.

 

E.g. you hit with a lascannon - divert to fenrisian wolf or storm-shield model.

 

You'd need to make sure that your preferred LoS! buddy was the nearest model (hard to do, especially when that one dies and LoS! is targeting the NEXT closest)

 

Formations help with this. Particularly if you make sure through measurement that you have several different models the EXACT same distance away from the IC. If you have 3 models that are all 2" exactly away from the IC and the IC is positioned to make the LoS! check then you'll get to choose. If using a Lord then you can have a regular model, a SS model, and a FW all exactly 2" away to abuse this.

Yeah, I know it says in the rules that if 2 models are the same distance away you get to choose. I haven't played many games recently so I'm not really sure how we determine they're "exactly" the same... hopefully not too many opponents get snippy and say "NO! That terminator is sliiiightly closer than the fenrisian wolf!"

[JimmyGuyy]

I'm not sure if this has been gone over in FAQs or anywhere here, but i think a lot of people are misinterpreting the LoS rules for ICs - or maybe its just me. As i read the rules, models test to divert wounds away from the character. So, when your sergant is going to take a wound, the guy nearest him is making the LoS roll. Independant characters pass their LoS rolls on a 2. meaning that THEY can take the wounds rather than the allocated character. I've been playing it like this for the past few months cause thats the way the rule reads to me, but it appears a lot of people feel its the other way; attributing the increased stat to the IC as a greater chance that his squad is willing to protect him rather than a greater chance to protect others. Does anyone else play it the way I do?

[Wulfebane]

At the moment, I've no time to play, so I'm indifferent to either ruling, but to me it makes more sense being called "Look out sir!" instead of "Look out nameless red-shirt peon!"

[Brom MKIV]

JimmyGuyy- its just you bro.

[Valerian]

I'm not sure if this has been gone over in FAQs or anywhere here, but i think a lot of people are misinterpreting the LoS rules for ICs - or maybe its just me. As i read the rules, models test to divert wounds away from the character. So, when your sergant is going to take a wound, the guy nearest him is making the LoS roll. Independant characters pass their LoS rolls on a 2. meaning that THEY can take the wounds rather than the allocated character. I've been playing it like this for the past few months cause thats the way the rule reads to me, but it appears a lot of people feel its the other way; attributing the increased stat to the IC as a greater chance that his squad is willing to protect him rather than a greater chance to protect others. Does anyone else play it the way I do?

 

You're doing it wrong. If an IC is going to take a wound, roll a d6 and on a 2+, you allocate that wound to the closest model to that IC. You can attempt the same thing with a regular character, like a Sergeant, that isn't an IC, but the roll is a 4+. If that is passed, again, you divert the wound to the closest model to the character.

 

Valerian