Justiciar with warding stave

[Lord Asher]

Considering this tactic to take some hits in a challenge. Anyone have any luck?

[AnImA8]

My general experience with them is that they are awesome, but whilst they perform their role EXACTLY as I intended them to, I'm still unsure of whether they're worth the expense or not. More than once I've had Purifiers in an assault with a dedicated-assault unit: the enemy would eat halberds, then when they'd strike back the Knight of Flame would absorb 6 hits before finally dying allowing the rest of the purifiers to survive to either win combat that turn, or finish the enemy off the next turn. Warding Staves may become more useful now that Challenges exist and now that Chaos Space Marines are so burly in Challenges. It's also important to note that ANY Justicar/Knight of Flame with Warding Stave and enough bodies watching becomes practically unkillable lol. Again though: worth the expense? Not if you need another body somewhere... :/

[number6]

I tend to think not. Generally speaking, the enemies with 2+ saves are the ones that would kick our asses in assault anyway. (E.g., TH/SS terminators, tooled-up Chaos Lords.) So if you're in assault there, you're going to die anyway, and all the stave will get you (barring extreme luck on your part) is perhaps a single turn of respite. Which isn't actually good, because if you're gonna lose, you want to lose on your opponent's turn so you have the opportunity to point your guns at them.

 

If you are going to equip your justicars/knights of the flame for challenges, I'd say that 9 times out of 10 the weapon you want is the halberd. It's nearly always better to go first.

 

That said, it is perfectly acceptable to not worry overmuch about challenges and just stick with the default kit, spending your points on more bodies and more guns. Very effective GK lists can be built with this general strategy in mind.

[Vash]

I would say no unless you have certain plan with your justicar or knight of the flame.

Reasons why I wouldn't put the stave on the justicar:

 

1. Perils of the warp. It will target the leader of the unit first.

2. In a challenge the stave won't save other members. I rather lose the justicar than two or more unit members.

 

 

The justicar in my opinion benefits more from a halberd. Strike first or pretty much first is worth more. Killing before the opponent has the time to strike. The stave is used on a unit member to save them from other opposing power weapons.

I have actually killed a Csm lord with a knight of the flame with a halberd. Best 27 pts I have ever spent.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yeah, the stave really only gets mileage on the Tech-Marine and Librarian (they both need the defenses, due to low or no invul). Grandmasters have the sword+Iron Halo for a 3++, same for Bro Champs.

 

Our squads are generally going to fight 3+ or worse armor anyway. Terminators by their nature (outside of Loganwing, Knightwing or Deathwing lists) are usually only 1-2 squads per army. And as others have said, if you get attacked by Terminators in melee, you're already dead. In a sarge vs sarge battle, 90% of the time AP3 will be enough, and Initiative always trumps hitting power in that matchup.

 

Halberds are cheap or free on our best melee units anyway (Purifiers, Terminators, Paladins). I'd stick with it, leave the squad hammers to do damage to a 2+ armour unit or model.

[spartan249]

A warding stave will most likely serve you best on a random dude. It's one way of dealing with hidden power fists and other AP2 weaponry. Is it worth the significant point investment? Maybe, it depends on the kind of competition you face.

 

I don't suggest it on the Justicar though, as a Justicar with a stave in a challenge means that the squad is eating all those AP3/2 weapons with no save. Kind of defeats the purpose of taking a stave in the first place.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I think we'd take the stave more often if it weren't so expensive. Matt didn't cost them properly, even though he probably knew about challenges coming down the pipeline.

 

I don't think taking it on a random dude is much use either. Against AP4 or worse attacks, that guy can still get torrented down with sheer hits (thats usually what I fail saves against, not low AP).

[spartan249]

... Positioning tactics... feels so good~

 

Protect your assets using unit formations. If they get to the guy in the middle/rear with small arms fire, you've usually lost that squad anyway.

 

In close combat, your opponent can either force you to take high AP hits first or low AP hits first. For the former, allocate onto non-stave dudes. As soon as the low AP attacks hit, switch over to the stave after the guy that was taking the saves dies. For the latter, put on the stave first to mitigate the damage. Wasn't that easy?

[Gaz1858]

I have been considering the same for my Knight of the Flame but I cannot seem to justify the cost over a Halberd.

The Halberd will allow you to take on most MEQ Sgts with Power Weapons or Fists and probably take them out before they attack. The stave means you could kill each other simultaneously or even roll the unluck 1 so your dead anyway.

 

Nah Halberd all the way

[Aethernitas]

Seems like most people dont play against DE or Nids with Lashwhips very often <_<

[Gaz1858]

All the time. But overall striking at I6 is still better than I4 with a 2++ inv. Its far too defensive thinking

[Aethernitas]

Thing is that the I6 of halberds is many times used interchangeable with 'striking first' cuz, hands down, there are not many units that can beat I6. The moment something with I7+ comes in the I6 could as well be I1. None of the DE HQ will even realize that you have 2 more Ini than a normal SM which in the case of our PA characters won't end nice.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that against specific armies the warding staff is easily worth his points and it has the cool effect to give your MEQs the best possible invul-save as they otherwise can't get one at all.

[spartan249]

Warding Staves work most effectively on Terminators/Paladins IMO. They benefit the most because they have the most to lose when faced with AP2 close combat attacks, and the stave can buy enough time for the TDA units to inflict serious damage. PA units that are not purifiers are a different story, and most of the time you'd be better off just losing the unit as quickly as possible so you can just shoot the offending unit off the table.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

In close combat, your opponent can either force you to take high AP hits first or low AP hits first. For the former, allocate onto non-stave dudes. As soon as the low AP attacks hit, switch over to the stave after the guy that was taking the saves dies. For the latter, put on the stave first to mitigate the damage. Wasn't that easy?

 

Not really. You only have one stave, and your opponent may just choose to torrent the closest guy down with AP4 (takes three wounds on average). Also, Defenders React and Pile In every Initiative step is going to potentially drag other dudes closer than the stave guy. It's hard to pull off, and its expensive too. I'd just take a halberd on the Justicar.

 

Seems like most people dont play against DE or Nids with Lashwhips very often

 

>implying Tyranid Warriors ever reach your lines intact

>Outflank is useless

>PsyDreads, massed psycannon+storm bolter

 

DE are different, but Overwatch from us can screw them (we have enough shots, and they are only T3 usually). Shooty DE worry me more than melee DE, they can put out a lot of poison and AP2 when they wish to, and their speed lets them out-position us.

 

Warding Staves work most effectively on Terminators/Paladins IMO. They benefit the most because they have the most to lose when faced with AP2 close combat attacks, and the stave can buy enough time for the TDA units to inflict serious damage. PA units that are not purifiers are a different story, and most of the time you'd be better off just losing the unit as quickly as possible so you can just shoot the offending unit off the table.

 

This. Anything that a warding stave would defend against, is probably going to faceroll your PA unit anyway. TDA characters, the Tech-Marine or perhaps a Terminator Justicar (good for jamming up Khârn, Abby etc), its a bit more worthwhile but still expensive (all the other options are free for TDA dudes, or cheap for the characters). Tech-Marine and Librarian are the two who most benefit, they're mostly buffing anyway and their lack of good invul makes the stave more valuable.

[spartan249]

Uh... what?

 

It's harder to make the stave irrelevant. Remember that your opponent isn't determining who's taking the saves? As long as Mr. Stave was somewhere in the middle of the formation before charging/getting charged, chances are that he's part of the front rank of combat along with most of the squad, as you're dealing with 2" coherency and a 3" pile in. Granted, Purifiers are the only ones I'd even consider having a stave in, but whatever.

[Brother Maikel]

On a PA marine a Warding Stave will increase the save percentage against AP2, AP3, and ignores armour weapons by 83.3%, and increase the save against other weapons by 16.7%.

It will on average save an extra 5 armour penetrating wounds or 1 extra non-AP wound over a Sword. PA marines are usually about 20-25 pts/ea, so you're looking at an average benefit of 100-125 points saved for 25 pts of investment.

 

On a regular terminator the Warding Stave will increase the save percentage against AP2 and ignores armour weapons by 33.3% over a sword (4++ vs 2++), and provides no benefit for non-penetrating weapons. It'll save on average 2 extra armour penetrating wounds over a Sword. TDA marines are 40-45pts/ea (after upgrades), so you're looking at an average benefit of 80-90 pts saved for 20 pts of investment.

 

On a Paladin the Warding Stave provides the same save percentage increases as a Terminator. However, since the Paladin has 2 wounds, against non-ID AP2 (Axes, S6 PF, MCs) the paladin will save an extra 4 penetrating wounds over the Sword. Furthermore, Paladins are 55-60pts/ea after upgrades, so the net benefit is 110-120 pts saved vs S8+ AP2 or 220-240 pts vs S7 or less AP2, for 20pts of investment.

 

 

As far as Stave vs Halberd on a PA marine, the only time Halberds are better is when you can kill enough enemy models to prevent you from taking more wounds than the stave would save. That means stopping at least 6 penetrating wounds (AP3 or better) or 2 non-penetrating wounds in a unit that has no AP3 or better, and that strike at I4-6. If the enemy strikes at I7+ or I1-3, the Stave is always better. Remember, Staves don't prevent you from attacking: you get the same number and quality of attacks, just at I4 instead of I6.

 

I wouldn't ever run a Stave on a normal TDA marine. The cost/benefit ratio is too high: I can get more benefit out retaining a Sword or switching to a Hammer (for S8 AP2) than a 2++ can provide.

For Pallies or PA, I think a Stave is a decent idea. Having a method to tank PFs and Axes on Pallies, or Power Swords/Lightning Claws on PA isn't a bad idea if you can find the points.

[Vash]

On a PA marine a Warding Stave will increase the save percentage against AP2, AP3, and ignores armour weapons by 83.3%, and increase the save against other weapons by 16.7%.

It will on average save an extra 5 armour penetrating wounds or 1 extra non-AP wound over a Sword. PA marines are usually about 20-25 pts/ea, so you're looking at an average benefit of 100-125 points saved for 25 pts of investment.

 

On a regular terminator the Warding Stave will increase the save percentage against AP2 and ignores armour weapons by 33.3% over a sword (4++ vs 2++), and provides no benefit for non-penetrating weapons. It'll save on average 2 extra armour penetrating wounds over a Sword. TDA marines are 40-45pts/ea (after upgrades), so you're looking at an average benefit of 80-90 pts saved for 20 pts of investment.

 

On a Paladin the Warding Stave provides the same save percentage increases as a Terminator. However, since the Paladin has 2 wounds, against non-ID AP2 (Axes, S6 PF, MCs) the paladin will save an extra 4 penetrating wounds over the Sword. Furthermore, Paladins are 55-60pts/ea after upgrades, so the net benefit is 110-120 pts saved vs S8+ AP2 or 220-240 pts vs S7 or less AP2, for 20pts of investment.

 

 

As far as Stave vs Halberd on a PA marine, the only time Halberds are better is when you can kill enough enemy models to prevent you from taking more wounds than the stave would save. That means stopping at least 6 penetrating wounds (AP3 or better) or 2 non-penetrating wounds in a unit that has no AP3 or better, and that strike at I4-6. If the enemy strikes at I7+ or I1-3, the Stave is always better. Remember, Staves don't prevent you from attacking: you get the same number and quality of attacks, just at I4 instead of I6.

 

I wouldn't ever run a Stave on a normal TDA marine. The cost/benefit ratio is too high: I can get more benefit out retaining a Sword or switching to a Hammer (for S8 AP2) than a 2++ can provide.

For Pallies or PA, I think a Stave is a decent idea. Having a method to tank PFs and Axes on Pallies, or Power Swords/Lightning Claws on PA isn't a bad idea if you can find the points.

 

Nice with math hammer :D

 

But we are forgetting something very important. Actual gameplay and tactics. Would you throw in a Strike squad in close combat, or would you throw in your terminators?'

Generally Strikes are support units for a GK army, sad enough... but they are of course really good in close combat too, we just seem to forget that some times.

 

So, in general, the stave will not be used at all, and it doesnt work against ranged attacks. So its 25 pts wasted.

 

Terminators on the other hand doesnt avoid close combat as much, and usually see more close combat (in my case atleast). There the stave will do more good.

 

 

Now this topic is about Justicars (sergeants) with Stave. And I personally wouldnt put it on the justicar. To save others, and according to your math hammer, a justicar shouldnt accept challenges as this prevents the model (justicar) with the stave to save other members against power weapon attacks.

So I dont know what your going at here. But I would never give a Justicar a stave for that very reason. He will in many cases not help the unit if he is in challenges (and if he refuses he cant attack). Thus giving the stave to a unit member is better and sticking the Justicar with a Halberd for challenges.

[AnImA8]

@Vash: your counter-argument to Brother Maikel doesn't really hold any weight. Saying that an upgrade is not worthwhile on unit A because unit B ought to be in Assault instead isn't a defensible position. Not everyone wants to or will take Paladins or Terminators, nor will everyone be able to keep their Strikes out of Assault; sometimes the game dictates that we deal with disadvantageous situations to the best of our ability. So your follow-up question of "Would you throw in a Strike squad in close combat, or would you throw in your terminators?" isn't really all that meaningful when you don't have a choice.

 

The line of argument that I find most intriguing and seems rife throughout this thread is the notion that the Justicar should never accept challenges because then they won't be saving the squad from AP3/2 attacks... But who exactly are the ones doling out these armor penetrating attacks? Last I recall the exact type of models that threaten our Knights in Assault the most are the Champions and Sergeants who have the special weapons and Power Fists. Specifically challenging these characters is consistent with saving our Knights in Assault because either they accept and their PFist or special weapon bounces off of a 2++ (rerollable with 5+ dudes watching) or they don't accept and their character doesn't get to attack at all while the Stave gets to clean the squad up. Even against kitted Assault HQ's and Special Characters, the Stave will stonewall that particular character for long enough to allow our own Special Characters and HQ's to arrive and help out.

[Vash]

@Vash: your counter-argument to Brother Maikel doesn't really hold any weight. Saying that an upgrade is not worthwhile on unit A because unit B ought to be in Assault instead isn't a defensible position. Not everyone wants to or will take Paladins or Terminators, nor will everyone be able to keep their Strikes out of Assault; sometimes the game dictates that we deal with disadvantageous situations to the best of our ability. So your follow-up question of "Would you throw in a Strike squad in close combat, or would you throw in your terminators?" isn't really all that meaningful when you don't have a choice.

 

The line of argument that I find most intriguing and seems rife throughout this thread is the notion that the Justicar should never accept challenges because then they won't be saving the squad from AP3/2 attacks... But who exactly are the ones doling out these armor penetrating attacks? Last I recall the exact type of models that threaten our Knights in Assault the most are the Champions and Sergeants who have the special weapons and Power Fists. Specifically challenging these characters is consistent with saving our Knights in Assault because either they accept and their PFist or special weapon bounces off of a 2++ (rerollable with 5+ dudes watching) or they don't accept and their character doesn't get to attack at all while the Stave gets to clean the squad up. Even against kitted Assault HQ's and Special Characters, the Stave will stonewall that particular character for long enough to allow our own Special Characters and HQ's to arrive and help out.

 

Today we find units that have more than just 1 power weapon... Grey Knights are not the only ones who have power weapons on many models in the same unit.

Fighting other terminators is one example. Not the best choice, but it happens. I dont know where you are playing and what opponents you face, but I usually end up fighting units with more than just one power weapon. May it be an independent character joining the unit, or specialized units of some kind.

And hey, if there is only one power weapon (Space Marines for example) they cant match the Halberd. 2 Attacks or 3 on the charge has a pretty high rate chance to kill that sergeant before he gets a chance to strike. If I fail, well I fail, end of story. My normal guy in the unit will probably soak up the wounds next turn (IF the opposing unit is still there, since the rest of the unit might have won the close combat in total, due to overwhelming amount of power weapons we can field).

 

And my counter argument is a principle I play after. I dont want my Strikes in close combat unless I can handle it. I rather throw in my terminators in close combat over my strikes. Thus I personally think the stave is more worth its points in terminator squads.

My Strikes (or rather the Strike squad as I only field one for the moment), hangs in the back, claiming a home objective and provides fire support best they can. If the enemy wants to charge into them, I say welcome. They have a long way to go in most cases (as there are supporting units) and I can shoot them as they come, overwatch and finally fight decently in close combat.

[Brother Maikel]

Nice with math hammer :lol:

 

But we are forgetting something very important. Actual gameplay and tactics. Would you throw in a Strike squad in close combat, or would you throw in your terminators?'

Generally Strikes are support units for a GK army, sad enough... but they are of course really good in close combat too, we just seem to forget that some times.

 

So, in general, the stave will not be used at all, and it doesnt work against ranged attacks. So its 25 pts wasted.

 

Terminators on the other hand doesnt avoid close combat as much, and usually see more close combat (in my case atleast). There the stave will do more good.

 

 

Now this topic is about Justicars (sergeants) with Stave. And I personally wouldnt put it on the justicar. To save others, and according to your math hammer, a justicar shouldnt accept challenges as this prevents the model (justicar) with the stave to save other members against power weapon attacks.

So I dont know what your going at here. But I would never give a Justicar a stave for that very reason. He will in many cases not help the unit if he is in challenges (and if he refuses he cant attack). Thus giving the stave to a unit member is better and sticking the Justicar with a Halberd for challenges.

 

I generally don't use PA, so I always send in my terminators ;)

 

I guess my point was that a halberd isn't always better than a stave even for challenges. Unless the enemy character has a boatload of attacks (and has 3+ or worse armour with no invuln), with the stave there's a really good chance you'll suffer the same number of wounds (0), and the offensive power of both items is identical: S "user", AP3. Plus the stave is more useful when up against characters with 2+ armour, a decent invuln, I7, or multiple wounds and EW. Furthermore, even if your stave-wielding Justicar doesn't attack, he can still block... so you lose a couple AP3 force weapon attacks. **shrug**. If you need it, you can always have that 2++ for tanking. Along with a 4+ Look Out Sir to push regular wounds onto your 3+ armour buddies.

 

The terminators just don't get nearly enough benefit from the stave to make it worthwhile. For 20pts less the Justicar can keep his Sword and still get a 4++. For 20pts more you can add another body, gaining more attacks, bringing you closer to another psycannon. For the same price you can give the whole squad psybolts, thinning out the enemy before charging (and with proper placement, eliminate the guy with the AP2 weapon?)

 

A PA squad going into combat (Purifiers, Interceptors, even Strikes) gets enough benefit to make it worthwhile IMHO. A strike squad in the backfield is likely facing FMCs or fast assault units, where a 2++ can go a long way.

[Vash]

Nice with math hammer :P

 

But we are forgetting something very important. Actual gameplay and tactics. Would you throw in a Strike squad in close combat, or would you throw in your terminators?'

Generally Strikes are support units for a GK army, sad enough... but they are of course really good in close combat too, we just seem to forget that some times.

 

So, in general, the stave will not be used at all, and it doesnt work against ranged attacks. So its 25 pts wasted.

 

Terminators on the other hand doesnt avoid close combat as much, and usually see more close combat (in my case atleast). There the stave will do more good.

 

 

Now this topic is about Justicars (sergeants) with Stave. And I personally wouldnt put it on the justicar. To save others, and according to your math hammer, a justicar shouldnt accept challenges as this prevents the model (justicar) with the stave to save other members against power weapon attacks.

So I dont know what your going at here. But I would never give a Justicar a stave for that very reason. He will in many cases not help the unit if he is in challenges (and if he refuses he cant attack). Thus giving the stave to a unit member is better and sticking the Justicar with a Halberd for challenges.

 

I generally don't use PA, so I always send in my terminators :)

 

I guess my point was that a halberd isn't always better than a stave even for challenges. Unless the enemy character has a boatload of attacks (and has 3+ or worse armour with no invuln), with the stave there's a really good chance you'll suffer the same number of wounds (0), and the offensive power of both items is identical: S "user", AP3. Plus the stave is more useful when up against characters with 2+ armour, a decent invuln, I7, or multiple wounds and EW. Furthermore, even if your stave-wielding Justicar doesn't attack, he can still block... so you lose a couple AP3 force weapon attacks. **shrug**. If you need it, you can always have that 2++ for tanking. Along with a 4+ Look Out Sir to push regular wounds onto your 3+ armour buddies.

 

The terminators just don't get nearly enough benefit from the stave to make it worthwhile. For 20pts less the Justicar can keep his Sword and still get a 4++. For 20pts more you can add another body, gaining more attacks, bringing you closer to another psycannon. For the same price you can give the whole squad psybolts, thinning out the enemy before charging (and with proper placement, eliminate the guy with the AP2 weapon?)

 

A PA squad going into combat (Purifiers, Interceptors, even Strikes) gets enough benefit to make it worthwhile IMHO. A strike squad in the backfield is likely facing FMCs or fast assault units, where a 2++ can go a long way.

 

Valid points.

But this just shows that we all have our own play style and tactics. And this I do like. I will never force anyone to play my way. Actually I dont want anyone to play like me :D

 

I currently use the stave on my Paladins and on my purifiers. But the stave is on a random member in the units, not the leaders (though paladins dont have one...).

 

But as I said before somewhere. I am afraid of "Perils of the warp". This will take out the justicar/knight of the flame first. I know it doesnt happen to often, but for me... it has happened in 2 out 3 games in general. So out of my 12 6th edition games perils of the warp has claimed my justicar 8 times... Bad luck or what?

[AnImA8]

But as I said before somewhere. I am afraid of "Perils of the warp". This will take out the justicar/knight of the flame first. I know it doesnt happen to often, but for me... it has happened in 2 out 3 games in general. So out of my 12 6th edition games perils of the warp has claimed my justicar 8 times... Bad luck or what?

 

Damn! That is brutal right there. Some atrocious luck! I have yet to have any of my squad leaders get gibbed by perils luckily...

 

As for your principle of play: I won't ever deny the logic, because I think the same way--leave the Strikes on home objectives to whittle away at the opponent, while the terminators get up-close-and-personal to chew stuff up. However my main point was just that this principle isn't enough to generalize onto other players a dictum for when one should buy the Stave and for who; the math hammer on the other hand does this just fine. I do think your way of doing things makes sense, but since I'd rather field 30 Strikes than a mix of Strikes and Termies, Brother Maikel's mathhammer is convincing enough for me.

 

More than anything I'm just glad to hear that you actually use our Terminators! I often feel like those are our Brothers that don't get enough love... :P

[Vash]

But as I said before somewhere. I am afraid of "Perils of the warp". This will take out the justicar/knight of the flame first. I know it doesnt happen to often, but for me... it has happened in 2 out 3 games in general. So out of my 12 6th edition games perils of the warp has claimed my justicar 8 times... Bad luck or what?

 

Damn! That is brutal right there. Some atrocious luck! I have yet to have any of my squad leaders get gibbed by perils luckily...

 

As for your principle of play: I won't ever deny the logic, because I think the same way--leave the Strikes on home objectives to whittle away at the opponent, while the terminators get up-close-and-personal to chew stuff up. However my main point was just that this principle isn't enough to generalize onto other players a dictum for when one should buy the Stave and for who; the math hammer on the other hand does this just fine. I do think your way of doing things makes sense, but since I'd rather field 30 Strikes than a mix of Strikes and Termies, Brother Maikel's mathhammer is convincing enough for me.

 

More than anything I'm just glad to hear that you actually use our Terminators! I often feel like those are our Brothers that don't get enough love... :D

 

Well I think I have not been clear enough that I am not trying to convince anyone. Problem with internet writing on forums :P

 

As for the terminators, I have always loved them, ever since 2nd edition.

And with the new rules in 6th edition and the new Chaos codex, I think terminators will be more usual than before. The Heldrake is a fearsome foe. AP3 S6 Torrent flame template (re-roll to wound if he wants to), vector strikes at S7 AP3. This guy can literally tear down a whole unit of Strikes (power armors) in one turn.

 

To counter this and not losing a whole squad, one must scatter... and this is not good tactically as you will position your self in most cases badly. Cover might be less, open to fire from other units, open to a charge? etc.

[AnImA8]

Ah haha I gotcha. Yea those are excellent points, ever since 6th there definitely seems to be a proliferation of AP3 weaponry... Maybe I should consider using regular Terminators as well. My only gripe about our terminators is just that their kill potential is so low... :/

[Vash]

Ah haha I gotcha. Yea those are excellent points, ever since 6th there definitely seems to be a proliferation of AP3 weaponry... Maybe I should consider using regular Terminators as well. My only gripe about our terminators is just that their kill potential is so low... :/

 

With the AP3 power weapons their survivability is greatly increased. And this is the "key". Get them into combat with units with only power weapons.

Most sergeants I have seen so far, prefers the power sword over the power fist, as they are afraid of challenges, meaning the fear of striking last.

So, fighting regular Joe Space marine units, there is nothing to fear really. The killing power may be low, but you will win the fight.

 

The task I usually have for my terminators, is objective hunting. This may be claiming or denying. They are excellent at both.

Also, Terminators are not as dependent on cover as PAGK and are more mobile with their psycannons. But the cost is the double of a strike squad of course. Is it worth it? Thats all up to the tactics your going to use.

 

I have always mixed my armies units. This to be able to counter all various things thrown at me. I may not be the most offensive and destructive player, but I claim my victories with counter tactics and survivability around the objectives.

 

Sorry for the off topic...