Angel Exterminatus

[Billuriye]

Yea, i think this was bantered around in the Deliverance Lost thread.

 

Basically, the Alpha Legion troll the Raven Guard, then troll Horus, and end their current reign of awesomesauce by trolling Fabius.

 

the Alpha Legion are becoming "A wizard did it" in 30k.

 

WLK

 

They troll each other too, so that's fair. It's not like they pull major victories out their asses. They aren't Mary Sues. Yet.

[Raleii]

Thought the book was brilliant, thought Perturabo as this brooding "cba" kind of Primarch, can see that is massively different now.

 

Couple of things i'd like too mention and get peoples thoughts on:

**SPOILERS**

 

 

The device that's used on Branthan, the Iron Hand captain in stasis with the bolter wounds and such, heals him DURING statis, possible way of Guilliman coming back from his future "almost" death at the hands of Fulgrim?

 

And Eidolon's resurrection, another way of bringing a primarch back AKA Ferrus Manus?

 

I know second one is a bit far fetched what with Ferrus' head being with Fulgrim, but still, Primarch awesomeness and such.

 

[malika666]

That might explain why Fulgrim had decapitated Eidolon...

[Lord_Caerolion]

The biggest problem I had with it was the constant name-dropping from Storm of Iron. It got to the point that I was expecting an Imperial Army Officer Hawke to get mentioned. I would have liked it if it had different characters, rather than focussing almost entirely on the leaders in Storm of Iron.

Hell, even Honsou gets a name-drop, in the entirely and absolutely unnecessary final chapter, that was seemingly included solely to mention Honsou

. Secondly, I also found it really stupid that the sonic weapons are constantly being described as having explosive effects, and literally vibrating people apart, but then having no effect whatsoever on someone because they're deaf.

[Billuriye]

I also found it really stupid that the sonic weapons are constantly being described as having explosive effects, and literally vibrating people apart, but then having no effect whatsoever on someone because they're deaf.

 

Yeah, that stuff was weird. But he was using his mouth not other sonic weaponry, which can only do minor damage.

[Rain]

Speaking of connections to Storm of Iron, it really doesn't make sense how Forrix, the First Captain and member of the Trident becomes subservient to another member of the Trident after he becomes semi-possessed and starts calling himself "The Warsmith". Hell, as I remember Kroeger nearly is positively awed at the Warsmith in SoI, which is kind of odd in light of the two holding essentially equal positions in AE and interacting as equals. So yeah, I mean I understand that something like a decade passed between the writing of the two books, but despite the name-dropping they do feel pretty self contained in that the characters bearing the same names in each don't really feel like the same characters.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Was it possible the data Alpharius had stolen from the Raven Guard had been flawed?

 

Yea, i think this was bantered around in the Deliverance Lost thread.

 

Basically, the Alpha Legion troll the Raven Guard, then troll Horus, and end their current reign of awesomesauce by trolling Fabius.

 

the Alpha Legion are becoming "A wizard did it" in 30k.

 

WLK

 

Best description of Alpha Legion antics in 30K ever. :cuss

[Pavement Artist]

Was it possible the data Alpharius had stolen from the Raven Guard had been flawed?

 

Yea, i think this was bantered around in the Deliverance Lost thread.

 

Basically, the Alpha Legion troll the Raven Guard, then troll Horus, and end their current reign of awesomesauce by trolling Fabius.

 

the Alpha Legion are becoming "A wizard did it" in 30k.

 

WLK

 

Best description of Alpha Legion antics in 30K ever. :D

 

Our excellent infiltration and sabotage skills are also being put to use blowing up our own installations. It's not always us winning.

 

And really, my beloved legion is getting flak because we didnt give Fabius the proper gene data? really? that man?

He's the Astartes equivalent of a dusty van with "Free Candy" written on the sides.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I also found it really stupid that the sonic weapons are constantly being described as having explosive effects, and literally vibrating people apart, but then having no effect whatsoever on someone because they're deaf.

 

Yeah, that stuff was weird. But he was using his mouth not other sonic weaponry, which can only do minor damage.

 

Well, his screams manage to destroy (explode is the word they use) the aural receptors of a dreadnought, and overload the auto-senses of power armour. It then goes on to describe the "sonic detonations" of the scream, that fill the air with a "jagged haze", and that he managed to shatter the spirit stones. Somehow though, it doesn't have any effect on the deaf guy...

[b1soul]

Basically, the Alpha Legion troll the Raven Guard, then troll Horus, and end their current reign of awesomesauce by trolling Fabius.

 

the Alpha Legion are becoming "A wizard did it" in 30k.

Eloquently stated...pretty much sums up why the current portrayal of the AL annoys me to no end

[Rain]

Well, that's kind of the whole Alpha Legion schtick right. I mean that's what they do, they sneak around and do things...because. Honestly I kind of like the mystery surrounding their motives, they are one of the few grey areas left in the fluff after the explication done by the HH series. And they actually aren't always described as winning, if you want that look at Space Wolves or Ultramarines, I don't think either of those have ever lost a battle in fluff except for perhaps ironically at Eskrador against the Alphas :P

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Well, that's kind of the whole Alpha Legion schtick right. I mean that's what they do, they sneak around and do things...because. Honestly I kind of like the mystery surrounding their motives, they are one of the few grey areas left in the fluff after the explication done by the HH series. And they actually aren't always described as winning, if you want that look at Space Wolves or Ultramarines, I don't think either of those have ever lost a battle in fluff except for perhaps ironically at Eskrador against the Alphas ^_^

 

your right, because the Ultramarines effortlessly repluse the Word Bearers at Calth... oh wait they barely survived

 

the Wolves perseved their future and rung Wolf successor Chapters around the Eye of Terror... oh wait the Thousand Sons broke into the Fang, killing nearly all of its defenders and destroyed all the gene-knowledge

 

the Wolves easily purged the Thousand Sons at Prospero... oh wait, the Wolves only survived due to the Sisters of Silence given them a crucial edge

 

Angron and Lorgrar arent rampaging through Ultramar... except the are. And doing a damn good job at it.

 

oh wait, every one of these events (and more) happened. in fluff.

 

On the other hand, we have the Alpha Legion infiltrating a senior commander of the astartes legion, fooling his comrades, fooling his PRIMARCH, successfully stealing the data required to mass produce Marines (at the loss of 5-10 operatives), then giving Horus the spoiled data while pocketing the correct knowledge.

 

the only thing they didnt do is tea-bag the Emperor "Halo" style, but the series isnt over yet.

 

WLK

[Rain]

The Ultramarines were ambushed while undergoing logistical preparations and had their entire defensive network taken down by a demon computer virus. And they still won! By the end of Know No Fear the WB were running with their tails between their legs and the Ultramarines only regretted that they couldn't blow up the WB flagship. Sure it wasn't "effortless" but they won, even thought the traitors had the element of surprise and had months/years of planning etc.

 

The Wolves repulsed a PRIMARCH with a skeleton crew that was defending The Fang at the time. Oh and then as an extra special ^_^ you a Space Wolf threw a big stick into Magnus' eye. And this was after they showed up at that the 1k Sons homeworld and basically burned the place to the ground and evicted the former tenants. Now uh, what battles have either legion lost in fluff? Oh yeah, none of them. Not even a "we lost but not really" thing like the Iron Cage.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

The Ultramarines were ambushed while undergoing logistical preparations and had their entire defensive network taken down by a demon computer virus. And they still won! By the end of Know No Fear the WB were running with their tails between their legs and the Ultramarines only regretted that they couldn't blow up the WB flagship. Sure it wasn't "effortless" but they won, even thought the traitors had the element of surprise and had months/years of planning etc.

 

The Wolves repulsed a PRIMARCH with a skeleton crew that was defending The Fang at the time. Oh and then as an extra special :cuss you a Space Wolf threw a big stick into Magnus' eye. And this was after they showed up at that the 1k Sons homeworld and basically burned the place to the ground and evicted the former tenants. Now uh, what battles have either legion lost in fluff? Oh yeah, none of them. Not even a "we lost but not really" thing like the Iron Cage.

 

the only way the Ultramarines "won" Calth is that they survived, which was a near damn thing here.

 

the Wolves replused a Primarch...at the cost of an entire company, 2 separate Wolf Lords, and the near death of Bjorn the Fell Handed...after he accomplished his mission on Fenris, and successfully besiged what is acknowledged as the 2nd strongest fortress outside of Terra...with less than 1/100th of the forces Horus used on Terra.

 

the William King books are a bit of a joke, even among us Wolves. Its kiddie fantasy meant to drag people into the hobby.

 

The Wolf codex actually mentions several loses in our history. The 'Wolf of Fenris" being stolen by Huron Blackheart, the entire idea of Lone Wolves, the Lost Company of Svengar the Red, Lukas having his heart removed by Prince Sliscus of the Dark Eldar (and in the DE codex, the DE poaching our recruits and greatly mutating them while lurking near Fenris). all thats from the Wolf Codex. so yea, if i bothered looking in other codex's fluff I could find many more occassion where my Chapter lost.

 

Its all in print my friend, if you choose to read it.

 

WLK

[Rain]

No, the Ultramarines definitely won, they drove the Word Bearers off and pretty much literally chased them out of the system. That said, The Wolf of Fenris this is a good point, fair enough. The other things are kind of one-offs, the DE did indeed steal wolf recruits but they ran away when the Wolves actually got mad, it wasn't really a battle, and Lukas has trolled the hell out of a lot of people before getting trolled himself by Sliscus. But it was god damn Sliscus, come on. The guy that stole the flagships of not one but three kabal archons. The guy that opens negotiations with Imperial governors only to kill everyone when they mispronounce his name and who has a "reputation" with the Wych cults. And not only for his winning personality.

[Pavement Artist]

Basically, the Alpha Legion troll the Raven Guard, then troll Horus, and end their current reign of awesomesauce by trolling Fabius.

 

the Alpha Legion are becoming "A wizard did it" in 30k.

Eloquently stated...pretty much sums up why the current portrayal of the AL annoys me to no end

 

Perhaps your mistake is assuming that this is the be all and end all of how the legion will be portrayed in the heresy.

 

In chronological terms the heresy is still in it's early years. This is why it looks like the traitor legions are roflstomping at the moment, because its just gone past the point where they've played their hand and surprised the good guys.

 

To compound this, the Alpha legion are deliberately opaque with their strategies. They don't operate anything like a conventional force. The reason it looks like they are running away with it at the moment is purely because the Loyalists simply haven't accounted for their methods of warfare.

 

It's one of the things in Guilliman's fluff that really irks me. The man who is supposed to codify every iota of military philosophy just openly dismisses one of his brother's doctrines....

[warpedphonecian]

Just finished it. I thought it was a good HH book, but like other posters, I didn't like that

the entire Iron Warriors cast came from McNeill's 40k books. The Honorable Soulaka thing seemed unnecessary, but at least it explains his name. For anyone who has read/loved Storm of Iron, it was weird to see Kroeger and the previously unnamed Warsmith, Falk in the trident with Forrix. The Toramino/Harkor treachery meant nothing to Iron Warriors fans because of Storm of Iron lol.

 

Also, it seemed like the final judgment of Olympia and its effect on Perturabo was only mentioned in passing, and I would have liked that to be addressed more than, say, Berossus killing people during some dreadnought physical therapy.

 

The EC are pretty insane in this book, and i wonder how many died during the sacrifice/ensuing battle (maybe the 'revelers' got the bad end of that deal?). They weren't ever a very large legion, and i think there must be a limit to how many dead bodies Fabius can reassemble a la Eidolon :/

 

also, i'm surprised that no one has mentioned the reference to Oll Persson at the Battle of Verdun during Kroeger's Khornate time vision, for lack of a better description.

 

I laughed a little when Perturabo declares that he can/will only trust Horus Lupercal from now on, as if he hasn't been hanging out with daemonic influences.

 

 

 

[Helden]

Anyone else catch the Ollanius Pius cameo?

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Nope, missed it.

[MadDoc]

Anyone else catch the Ollanius Pius cameo?

:P At least one other person did.

also, i'm surprised that no one has mentioned the reference to Oll Persson at the Battle of Verdun during Kroeger's Khornate time vision, for lack of a better description.

[warpedphonecian]

:P thanks' for the careful reading.

[spu00sed]

I caught it but forgot about it when posting my thoughts.

[Bulwyf]

I liked the book but must point out some things that just irked me:

 

Let's intentionally drive into a black hole because the guy that is my brother who lied to me, tried to kill me and turned into a demon in front of me seemed to tell the truth when he said we'd meet again.

 

Need to learn how to be a Dreadnought for the first time? Why not conduct live fire combat drills on my own soldiers. Isn't this what combat servitors are for?

 

If you were in Storm of Iron you were in this book.

 

Fabius, Fulgrim and Lucious spent way too much time exchanging "Quotable Twisting Mustachioed Villain From Silent Film Era" lines to each other or any nearby listeners.

 

If you use a sonic wave weapon (including an augmented mouth/lung) then the sonic energy still "works" even if the victim is deaf. Being deaf does not make magically immune to vibrations powerful enough to split power armor and destroy parts of a Dreadnought. I literally wanted to fling my Kindle at someone when I read that.

 

I thought Alpha Legion and Spaces Wolves were overpowered but sweet mercy apparently Raven Guard random line soldiers are the greatest thing since, well, anything. That guy had ninja fu down to a science: he can beat untold enemy warships using this mysterious attack plan, he can handily defeat the most skilled swordsman in the Heresy Era and just for the heck of it he somehow can stay in stealth despite helmet senors picking up body heat and motion. BUT my friends BUT this stealth skill falls apart against...an unhelmed Salamander with red eyes that can apparently see anything.

 

If you die it is no big deal because apparently Fabuis Bile can do anything that the Alpha Legion, Space Wolves and random Raven Guard line soldiers can't do.

 

What I liked:

 

Perturabo. Wow. I haven't like a primarch that much in a long time. Here's a guy that is fully functional and doesn't blame anyone for his problems. He is bitter about his soldiers being used as siege stiffs, sure, but his shame and guilt at purging his own home world is why he went Traitor. I love it. It is by far the easiest non psycho reason we've seen for any primarch to turn traitor. He knew he had made a colossal blunder and went overboard and the Emperor was absolutely going to censor him anyways. But he finds the one guy, Horus, that is in a position above him other than the Big E and he not only forgives him but LAUDS him for it.

 

So we see a very human reaction: I did something unforgivable and to mask my shame and guilt I turn to an authority figure that approves what I know in my heart is wrong.

 

Iron Warriors. I know some of 40k pals can't stand the IW because they suffer from "Ultramarine syndrome" in that they are vanilla bad guys as the UM are vanilla good guys but it is refreshing to see a Legion that their collective **** together. What a glaring difference in their methodical approach to war (as a military historian I love it) versus the insanity of the Emperor's Children.

 

Fulgrim. I like the fact that his motives are what we should expect from someone whose broken the most important oaths any soldier can have. He is completely self serving and will betray anyone including his fellow brothers that went Traitor. You can already see how Chaos can never truly win anything in the grand scheme because it simply falls apart due to lack of discipline and order.

[Bulwyf]

Also to note: no one else commented that Perturabo was the one that got to name it the Eye of Terror?

 

I also think the Heart of Iron shows conclusively that you can heal in stasis which proves what I've been saying for years: Papa Smurf is healing slowly and if they lower the stasis field I think he'll be fine.

[DarKnight]

The fleshing out of the reasons for Perturabo's going traitor ie. the purging of Olympia, brings up a point I had been dwelling on for a long time. In 'The First Heretic", Erebus mentions inciting rebellion on the Iron Warriors world in order to bring them into the fold. Now I'm not expecting a turn of allegiance from the IW in 30k or 40k, but if Perturabo or any of the IW were to find this out (and I can't imagine it really staying a secret for 10k years), do they go to war with the Word Bearers? Isn't that the grounds for war moreso than most things the Traitor Legions go to war for?