Killer HQ/Bike Unit

[SCOOBYSHAG]

I posted this over at Warseer and thought you guys might enjoy it as well.

 

Lord (175 points)

-Mark of Khorne

-Juggernaut

-Axe of Blind Fury

-Sigil of Corruption

-Veteran of the Long War

-Inside a unit of Khorne bikers with the Icon of Wrath

 

He has 7+d6 attacks that are AP2, WS5, and S7. He also gets a Hammer of Wrath attack (Jugger-Cavalry). Also, the attacks are re-rollable in the first round of combat vs. Space Marines (VotLW). The Lord has Fleet and the entire unit can re-roll the charge range (Icon of Wrath). T5, W4, 3+/4++

 

Attacks: 3 (base), +2 (Rage), +1 (pistol + axe), +1 (Jugger), +d6 (Axe of Blind Fury)

Strength: 4 (base), +2 (Axe of Blind Fury), +1 (Furious Charge from Icon)

Toughness: 4 (base), +1 (Jugger)

Wounds: 3 (base), +1 (Jugger)

 

To add to the madness, the rest of the unit gets 4 attacks each (5 for the Champ) at S5 and T5 with re-rolls to hit against Space Marines in the first round (assuming VotLW on the unit). Plus Hammer of Wrath attacks. Give the champ a power axe or fist and throw in a couple of flamers/meltas and ouch.

[Brother Nihm]

And the total point cost?

[Killax]

And the point is?

 

This is how most field him allready, including me <_<

There is no real need for the banner.

 

Cheers,

[SCOOBYSHAG]

And the total point cost?

 

The Lord's point cost is 175.

 

The total unit depends on how many bikers you want in there.

[SCOOBYSHAG]

And the point is?

 

This is how most field him allready, including me :)

There is no real need for the banner.

 

Cheers,

 

 

No real need for the banner?

 

It gives the entire unit including the Lord, +1 strength on the charge and the ability to re-roll charge dice. This isn't worth 20 points?

[Killax]

And the point is?

 

This is how most field him allready, including me :)

There is no real need for the banner.

 

Cheers,

 

 

No real need for the banner?

 

It gives the entire unit including the Lord, +1 strength on the charge and the ability to re-roll charge dice. This isn't worth 20 points?

 

What do you expect to hit down? A field full of Land Raiders?

[SCOOBYSHAG]

And the point is?

 

This is how most field him allready, including me :)

There is no real need for the banner.

 

Cheers,

 

 

No real need for the banner?

 

It gives the entire unit including the Lord, +1 strength on the charge and the ability to re-roll charge dice. This isn't worth 20 points?

 

What do you expect to hit down? A field full of Land Raiders?

 

I guess Im confused by your statement.

 

20 points to make 2 to 9 Khorne Bikers Strength 5 (instead of 4) and give the entire unit the ability to re-roll their charge range is bad? Especially considering most armies are MEQ/T4? What am I missing here? Who is hunting Land Raiders with strength 5?

[gaurdian31]

Maybe he means the lord?

[Cheex]

I prefer a bike for the flexibility of being able to turbo boost.

 

As for the icon, the ability to reroll charge distances is huge. You might think that an average roll of 7" is good enough, but consider that you only have a 54% chance of getting a 7" charge range or more. I've only played a couple of games so far with the codex, but the reroll came into play at important points in both games. Having that extra insurance is well worth the 20pts per unit, IMHO.

[SCOOBYSHAG]

I prefer a bike for the flexibility of being able to turbo boost.

 

As for the icon, the ability to reroll charge distances is huge. You might think that an average roll of 7" is good enough, but consider that you only have a 54% chance of getting a 7" charge range or more. I've only played a couple of games so far with the codex, but the reroll came into play at important points in both games. Having that extra insurance is well worth the 20pts per unit, IMHO.

 

I agree on the charge range. This unit badly wants to get in to close combat asap.

[Killax]

I prefer a bike for the flexibility of being able to turbo boost.

 

As for the icon, the ability to reroll charge distances is huge. You might think that an average roll of 7" is good enough, but consider that you only have a 54% chance of getting a 7" charge range or more. I've only played a couple of games so far with the codex, but the reroll came into play at important points in both games. Having that extra insurance is well worth the 20pts per unit, IMHO.

 

I agree on the charge range. This unit badly wants to get in to close combat asap.

 

It's up to you, I just never really had charge problems with a biker sqaud... like ever.

 

I understand the added value, the strength bonus I don't find that interesting, you still don't want to clash with certain Death Star units.

 

The problem I have is it's quite expensive and quite the target.

It isn't that survivable (like terminators in a box) and adding banners and the lot just asks for even more focus on such a unit.

 

I personally like to spread my threaths around the army and also feel this is the best way to compliment the current Chaos units.

The Lord on a Jugger is fantastic, opponents will know that. Our bikers are good for their points, opponents should know that.

Adding both together might seem like a nice idea but again it's just a mayor target that can't handle the fire all that well.

[SCOOBYSHAG]

I prefer a bike for the flexibility of being able to turbo boost.

 

As for the icon, the ability to reroll charge distances is huge. You might think that an average roll of 7" is good enough, but consider that you only have a 54% chance of getting a 7" charge range or more. I've only played a couple of games so far with the codex, but the reroll came into play at important points in both games. Having that extra insurance is well worth the 20pts per unit, IMHO.

 

I agree on the charge range. This unit badly wants to get in to close combat asap.

 

It's up to you, I just never really had charge problems with a biker sqaud... like ever.

 

I understand the added value, the strength bonus I don't find that interesting, you still don't want to clash with certain Death Star units.

 

The problem I have is it's quite expensive and quite the target.

It isn't that survivable (like terminators in a box) and adding banners and the lot just asks for even more focus on such a unit.

 

I personally like to spread my threaths around the army and also feel this is the best way to compliment the current Chaos units.

The Lord on a Jugger is fantastic, opponents will know that. Our bikers are good for their points, opponents should know that.

Adding both together might seem like a nice idea but again it's just a mayor target that can't handle the fire all that well.

 

It's definitely a catch 22.

 

Do I combine two great pieces to make an awesome unit? Well then it's a priority target. Well I could separate the Lord/Jugger from the Bikers and have two threats...but then both are less potent and even less survivable. Albeit, now the threats have been spread out a little more.

 

Do you think a Khorne Lord on Jugger should NOT be inside of a unit but instead on his own? Or are you saying that you would never field a Jugger? How about a Lord/Jugger in a less expensive unit of say...5 Spawn?

 

Opponents are going to know everything that is strong in every codex no matter what. There is no getting around that. It's two schools of thought really. Water down the potency and spread it out amongst the army, or concentrate the potency in to a few focused groups. Obviously the Lord/Bike unit wouldn't be the only threat in the army but I do agree with you that the biker group could get expensive and take away from other units in the army.

[Killax]

Do you think a Khorne Lord on Jugger should NOT be inside of a unit but instead on his own? Or are you saying that you would never field a Jugger? How about a Lord/Jugger in a less expensive unit of say...5 Spawn?

 

Personally I would prefer a small biker unit for cool-ishness, but then again I also like their tank-hunting ablities. I just feel the Khorne CC lord doesn't fit the unit all that much because bikers are not all that great in CC.

I do think the multi-wound Spawn are great cover for the lord, to get him there. Either way it can get expensive.

 

Now the main reason (to come back on that point) to not include the banner is that I generally feel it adds to less for a biker unit.

I agree re-rolling charges is great, for infantry mainly. But since it doesn't add any resielence I would prefer using those points elsewhere.

 

The Jugger Lord is my favourite piece and I wished we had some competative mech-liest options to make optimal use of him and keep him out of LoS / in cover.

For now, I try to switch things up continiously. What I do know is that Helldrakes are great, so combined with bikers I prefer using these units for specific targets.

The result of this is that I actually field the Khorne Lord as a single unit, if it hits CC it's good and if you lose it due to shooting again it's only a 170 point "loss".

 

All in all, go for what you like, again I feel the banner ads to less to the biker unit in general so would use that on other units (if I would use it at all).

[Excessus]

Killax, just because they move up the board together doesn't mean the lord has to remain with his biker bodyguards all game long. He is an Independent Character, he can actually move out of the unit to assault things on his own...

[SCOOBYSHAG]

Do you think a Khorne Lord on Jugger should NOT be inside of a unit but instead on his own? Or are you saying that you would never field a Jugger? How about a Lord/Jugger in a less expensive unit of say...5 Spawn?

 

Personally I would prefer a small biker unit for cool-ishness, but then again I also like their tank-hunting ablities. I just feel the Khorne CC lord doesn't fit the unit all that much because bikers are not all that great in CC.

I do think the multi-wound Spawn are great cover for the lord, to get him there. Either way it can get expensive.

 

Now the main reason (to come back on that point) to not include the banner is that I generally feel it adds to less for a biker unit.

I agree re-rolling charges is great, for infantry mainly. But since it doesn't add any resielence I would prefer using those points elsewhere.

 

The Jugger Lord is my favourite piece and I wished we had some competative mech-liest options to make optimal use of him and keep him out of LoS / in cover.

For now, I try to switch things up continiously. What I do know is that Helldrakes are great, so combined with bikers I prefer using these units for specific targets.

The result of this is that I actually field the Khorne Lord as a single unit, if it hits CC it's good and if you lose it due to shooting again it's only a 170 point "loss".

 

All in all, go for what you like, again I feel the banner ads to less to the biker unit in general so would use that on other units (if I would use it at all).

 

I agree that Bikers, in general, are not that great in CC. But when you add Rage, Counter-Attack, and Furious Charge they can be pretty salty. Especially when charging in after 3 flamer hits (combi-flamer).

[Kallidon]

I agree 100% this unit and every khorne unit should take an icon.

 

Failing a charge by an inch or two and not turbo boosting could end the bikes quickly. Takng sime meltas to crack a wagon/raider/rhino etc. And delivering the lord into combat is the main priority.. you need that banned to make sure you dont fail those short charges. Ive double oned a couple important charges and it drives me nuts.

 

Bloodthister charging a death company at 4" range... Ugh. And thats a unit you need to assault first... *sigh*

[tvih]

My first plan was to mix Juggernaut lord with Bikes as well. But that setup just has... problems. For one, the Lord can be focus fired because the bikes get a cover save and he doesn't. Even with Lo,S! that can lead to bad, bad things. Second is of course not being able to move in the shooting phase because apparently you can't run and turbo-boost with such a mixed unit.

 

Which leaves me with running Juggernaut with Spawns - well, it could be done with Raptors/Talons too, but Spawns get Fleet just like the Lord does and I don't have Raptors, I have Possessed that I'm gonna proxy as Spawns - and then alternatively a biker lord with a biker squad. The Fleet thing in part would at least lessen, but not remove, the need for the Icon.