minigun762 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I'm debating between Ectofiend, Possessed Vindicator or Defiler for some blasty goodness. Fiend and Vindicator bring AP2 goodness which is quite valuable but are limited to midfield support based on weapon range. Defiler brings the long range but has the weakest (but not a weak) gun. Vindicator is much cheaper but lacks the demon engine's defensive upgrades. Assuming that AA firepower was covered, which one pulls on your heart strings and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boskiche Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Vindicator. Price tag and AV13 at the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellrender Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 i am not sure. The fiend defo has the coolest model, brings average range, and good anti termie business. Vindi aswell, for cheaper, but only 1 blast. The defiler is better against meq, has much more range, but if you want to use that range to stay save, you cant use the rest of its arsenal. I see your issue, and i think i didnt really help you ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 If you have obliterators, don't get the fiend, if you don't do. Defiler makes the best all round choice, but isn't too helpful in the terminator killing. It all depends on what the rest of your army is like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 defiler. to run plasma fiends it would have to be 4 hvy support units [2 plasma fiends two something other] so over 2k points. vindicators are bad tanks over all , they give opponents a whole turn of not shoting and have low side armor etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 defiler. to run plasma fiends it would have to be 4 hvy support units [2 plasma fiends two something other] Why do you assume that? For what it's worth the other heavies will be havocs and a Hadesfiend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 you said aircraft coverted . So 2 havocks units . this means 1 slot under 2k points . all of the choice the defiler is the best one run as single under 2k points [comparing to a single vindi or single plasma forge fiend] . If you take a dakka forge fiend and a havock unit[which you shouldnt , but am assuming that this is given] the defiler is again a better option , if it is just about blasts templates[because if it was not about blasts then a second dakka forge would be better] . because it has superior range. 1 turn down time or being forced out of cover/closer to the enemy ends in a dead model , sooner then a chaos player would want to . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I love vindicators (model-wise) and I'm trying really hard to justify running one but it just doesn't seem like as good a choice as a defiler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caffeineated Chaos Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 All AC havocs, Aegis, and Manticore or 1-3 Basilisks by way of IG/Vraks allies? Barrage sniping and more bang for point cheapness. Just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve shields Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 All AC havocs, Aegis, and Manticore or 1-3 Basilisks by way of IG/Vraks allies? Barrage sniping and more bang for point cheapness. Just saying manticore, basilisks were somewhat lackluster when i used them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 ah, you took the basilisks then? My vote is defiler, it looks pretty resilient and can help a charge. Failing that, im thinking 2 dakka fiends look pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 The more I look at the Ectofiend, the more I'm thinking its the worst option. Ignoring the rather large point difference, I can't find a time where I'd rather have 2x S8 blasts vs 1x S10 large blast. Making it 3x S8 blasts just tosses the point comparison out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techsoldaten Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Just to offer some ideas, you may also want to think about using allies. When you consider cost, overall shot power, armor and some other factors, there's a case to be made for bringing in big guns from other armies. - Consider using Traitor Guard allies and getting a Leman Russ squadron or an ordnance battery. The guns are more punishing and you have more options for what you want to do with them on the battlefield. Some of the main variants of the Leman Russ are less expensive than the Forgefiend and come with better armor. - Consider using Tau allies and getting a battlesuit team or a hammerhead. The hammerhead is about the same cost as a fiend when it is equipped with a rail gun and uses a large blast marker. The battlesuit team is going to get you twin-linked rail guns that fire a huge distance. - Consider using Orks to get a battlewagon with a kannon. The fact it's a blast weapon kind of makes up for the lack of BS. The fact that it is open topped means you can also load on a lot of additional firepower - imagine one with a bunch of lootas on board, that would be a lot of dakka. You can also upgrade them to Meks to improve your survivability. The basic cost of these units needs to be considered along with the cost for a compulsory HQ and troops selection. Figure on about another 130 points to get that allied vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caffeineated Chaos Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 All AC havocs, Aegis, and Manticore or 1-3 Basilisks by way of IG/Vraks allies? Barrage sniping and more bang for point cheapness. Just saying manticore, basilisks were somewhat lackluster when i used them. Excellent, that minimises how much money I need to drop into IG somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 Just to offer some ideas, you may also want to think about using allies. When you consider cost, overall shot power, armor and some other factors, there's a case to be made for bringing in big guns from other armies. Very true. Mentally I'm stuck on the one army idea so taking allies is not yet something I routinely consider. It's still a novelty to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Just to offer some ideas, you may also want to think about using allies. When you consider cost, overall shot power, armor and some other factors, there's a case to be made for bringing in big guns from other armies. Very true. Mentally I'm stuck on the one army idea so taking allies is not yet something I routinely consider. It's still a novelty to me. Get to know your new codex, then after you feel comfortable with everything worry about allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyl- Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I'm sorry to ask this, but why does the vindicator give a round of no shooting? Range? In my experience, drop pods arrive turn 1 and IF the vindicator doesn't get a meltagun to the rear (or the front for that matter), it gets to ravage the enemy right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 How about a 4th alternative? The Soulgrinder. Compared to the Defiler: Pro's: * +1 Armour on all sides. * 35 pts cheaper. * Doesn't use up a much needed HS-slot from the CSM-list. * On 3+ it will Deepstrike on turn one. Cons: * Shorter range on the Cannon, but deepstrike + 36" is enough really. * Doesn't have iWnD. * Doesn't have Daemon Forge. * If you don't roll a 3+, it might not come untill turn 4 if you're really really unlucky. (*Requires you to take a Daemon ally HQ and troopchoice, but considering that theese aren't that bad and/or can be very cheap, makes it a minor inconvinience.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I like the defiler myself. Tough enough to run one of, particularly if you've got some other armor in there somewhere (rhinoes, dreads, whatever), nice long range. Plus I just think it's awesome, conceptually and aesthetically. It isn't the most powerful or points efficient option for your heavy support slots, but unlike some of the more lackluster options in the book (possessed, I'm looking at you) it doesn't feel bad enough to negate it's coolness factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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