Dez Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Hey all, This is a bit of a 'blog' I'm keeping over on Miniwargaming, and I thought I'd bring it over here too. I'd love some more input! I'm going to be copying over my posts from there, each list or batrep will be separated by dashes. I've decided to use this thread to keep track of different list ideas, tactics, batreps and to hash out some ideas. I'm happy to hear everyone's feedback, just remember to keep it civil. Have fun! Last week I played a Typhus list, with 3 squads of 20 Zombies, a unit of PM's in a Rhino, a squad of 7 Terminators and 7 Bikers. All MoN where I could. I was amazed not only that I lasted but was able to match blow for blow against a melta spam Vulcan list. It was a really, really tough battle that I did end up losing due to first blood. I had no Alpha Strike, and I need to bring it so I'm adding a couple of Forge Fiends this week to see how it goes. My list: Chaos Lord 165 Lord MoN Bike Aura Black Mace VotLW Bikers 211 Bikes x6 MoN Plasma x2 PW Forgefiend 175 Forgefiend 175 Plague Marines 225 PM x5 Melta x2 PW Rhino Dirge Caster Plague Marines 225 PM x5 Melta x2 PW Rhino Dirge Caster Cultists 165 Cultists Heavy Stub Cultists 165 Cultists Heavy Stub ==================================================================================================== ========================================================== "Are cultists worth it?" They are super cheap. I plan on having them on reserves to come on the board and hold objectives in my deployment zone. ==================================================================================================== ========================================================== Ok all, I've updated this to add more fun stuff. Let me know what you think. I've added the Forge Fiends because last week I lost to first blood. I'm hoping that these bad boys will bring the bang so my poor bikers get left alone Speaking of bikers, I'll have all my eggs in one basket with the Lord and Sorcerer attached to this unit. I'm thinking Biomancy for a second power on the Sorcerer, should make the unit pretty tough. Speaking of the Sorc now, I'm at 1501 for points which should be cool...but if not I'll just drop the VotLW on the Sorc. My strategy is to move up fast into a flank with the Death Guard Marines and Bikers. Cultists and Heldrake will be in reserves. The Fiends will be in the center, to give them a full range of fire and also be able to meet the bikers/DG in the middle to help roll up the flank. Lord 165 Lord MoN Black Mace Bike Aura VotLW Sorcerer 140 Sorc LvL 2 85 MoN Bike Aura VotLW Chaos Bikes 200 Bikes x5 Plasma x2 MoN PAxe GoM VotLW Plague Marines 205 PM x5 Melta x2 Paxe GoM VotLW Rhino Plague Marines 205 PMx5 Plasma x2 Paxe GoM VotLW Rhino Cultists 66 Cultists x14 Heldrake 170 Baleflamer Forgefiend 175 Forgefiend 175 Well last night was a wash, my opponent didn't show. I was really hoping to try out the list above, I had adjusted it for some different tricks than the week before. Who knows what crazy ideas I'll get stuck in my head for the next game. Our group is supposed to play Battlestar Galactica (the board game) next Tuesday...but I'd much rather play 40k I think. I'm still not as well versed in 40k as I'd like to be, and I really want to give this new codex a swing. I'm still dying (hahaha) to try Zombies out again myself. I found that in groups of 20 they were great tarpits. I'd take them in larger squads of 35as I'm firmly in the RAI camp that Cultists can take more bodies. They need those numbers in order to grind down whatever they are in combat with, as I'd like them to survive to take objectives. Has anyone tried large groups of Zombies yet? How were your results? ==================================================================================================== ========================================================== Looks like I have a game for Saturday night! 1750 points, I'm still running through list ideas. What do you guys think of giant hordes of Plague Marines? It get's costly, I got a unit of 20 up to 480 points with Plasma x2, Power Axe, Melta Bombs and Veterans of the Long War. That's a huge amount of points in a unit, beware of Demolisher cannons! I think the unit will be super scary, and being Plague Marines will just trudge along anyway. Now that would be a lot of eggs in one basket...but these aren't really eggs. More like turtles. Tough as nails turtles. The only other issue is troops choices and antitank. Enter Typhus. My gaming group is not going to count taking extra Cultists as an upgrade, so units of 35 are A Ok. So cheap, so cool! What about anti tank? 2 plasma guns are ok, but I'd like a bit more firepower. I was thinking 2 Forgefiends with no upgrades and Hades Cannons. I just love the idea of all that Dakka! They seem pretty resilient on paper, I would just like to get some practical game use out of them. I'm planning some fun conversions for them, I'm really excited to get working on them. Now all I need is time! I'll mull things over throughout the day, and post up a 1750 point list. I'm not sure I'll be running Typhus and all those Zombies at this time, I'm kinda partial to the Bikers and Terminators. Terminators may be where I spend that extra 250 points. ==================================================================================================== ========================================================== Hey All! I got a game in last night against Grey Knights, 1850 points which is our local tournament level. My list was as follows: Typhus 230 Sorcerer 230 Sorc ML 3 MoN Sorc Fam Bike Blight Gren VotLW SoC GoM Death Guard 235 PM x5 Melta x2 Paxe GoM VotLW Rhino Death Guard 245 PM x5 Plasma x2 Paxe GoM VotLW Rhino Zombies 150 Cultists x35 Zombies 50 Cultists x10 Zombies 50 Cultists x13 Bikers 226 Bikes x6 Plasma x2 MoN PSword GoM VotLW Forgefiend 175 Forgefiend 175 I was pressed for time in making my list, so I just dumped a bunch of upgrades on stuff. Once again, I forgot about VotLW EXCEPT when it came to leadership. My GK opponent had 3 Dreads all with the Aegis that gives psykers -4, so having that +1 LD balanced things out and I didn't fail a single roll. I didn't keep a copy of my opponents list, next time I will. It went something like this: Inquisitor Librarian Shooty Assassin 3 Henchman with Bolters in an Autocannon Razorback 10 Terminators, couple Halberds and a Daemonhammer Sgt Full unit of Power Armor Min unit of Power Armor Psyrifle Dreads x2 Dread w/ Lascannon and PF Aegis Defense Line w/Quad The mission was Big Guns Never Tire, and the Deployment was Hammer and Anvil. We rolled and got 3 Objectives, I won the roll for both Deployment and objectives, so I had 2 hidden in Ruins in my deployment zone. I deployed both Forgefiends in the Ruins with each objective, with just enough range to reach over the Aegis. I deployed Tyhpus with the unit of 35 Zombies up front and a bit to the right, directly across from the other objective. I had a Rhino to the Left (plasma) and the Right (melta) with enough Zombies in front to get 25%. The Bikes deployed with the Sorc to the far right. I left the smaller units of Zombies in reserves, so they wouldn't have to weather any first turn shooting and could grab the objectives in my deployment zone. My opponent deployed a PsyDread to my far left, across from one FF in Ruins. Also he had the Quad and 5 man GK team on the other side of the building there. The Inquisitor was manning the Quad. To my far right, he deployed his objective along with everything else. He then rolled for initiative, and got it. I was kinda happy, as now he would be coming to me! He moved everything forward, lots of it past the Aegis. He then opened up with a hail of fire...and I just weathered it. I lost 2 bikers and the gun off the Melta Rhino. He was trying to pick of the Sorc, who just stuck his poxed tongue out at him. In my turn, I moved the bikers up a bit, trying to take as much cover from the ruins as possible Sorc cast Endurance. I probably should have just gotten into them, but I'm still in a 5e state of mind and forget I can take saves vs Dangerous Terrain. I moved Typhus and the Zombies up, and also moved both Rhinos up too. I then opened fire and blew up the Razorback, taking out 2 henchmen leaving one. FIRST BLOOD. The rest of my shooting picked off a Terminator or two, a wound of the Libby, took 1 guy out of the 5 man GK unit. One of my Plasma PM killed himself rather than face the 666th. Turn 2, my opponent became nervous with the Plasma and Melta PM's picking off Termis and GK here and there, so he moved them back. He opened fire again, this time to much greater effect. I wish I had written down a recap of each phase, I can't recall if this is when Rhinos and Bikers got whittled down or next turn. My daughter just woke, so I guess I need to recap the whole thing here fast. Typhus got into combat, and just W R E C K E D. Even with the PF Dread in there and a full unit of Termis with Librarian, he just mashed them. Typhus did finally fall in turn 6, but with the full unit of Zombies was just crazy. I also need to stop forgetting VotLW....I can't believe I did it again. I'll be taking the Ectoplasm over Hades next time! 7 is fluffy, but Biker Unit needs more Bikers. The Zombies in Reserves won the game for me, 8-6. It was close, and super bloody battle! ==================================================================================================== ========================================================== I keep thinking about how awesome of a unit Typhus with 35 Zombies was. They weathered a tremendous amount of firepower, and held up in Assault very well. The crux to all this was Look Out Sir. Typhus can LO,S! on a 2+, and was handing Zombies everything that came at him. On the occasional fail, he has a 2+/5+. Zombies were just soaking up the wounds with their FNP. Typhus just murdered everything in Challenges, and when he was done with those turned around and smashed everything else into bits. The only thing that concerned me was the Dread CCW at Str 10. It wasn't a real cause for concern this game, as I got lucky and rolled a 65 on the Chaos boons and got +1 T after that. I do wish he had Eternal Warrior. I keep going back and forth on Ectoplasm vs Hades, but will probably choose Ecto for modeling purposes and AP 2. I'll lose some AA, but will probably work in an ADL. Tuck a couple Forgefiends behind that, and start blasting away. I don't think my Biker unit was big enough, I think I'll max it out. Concentrated Firepower whittled them down faster than I'd like, even with FNP and T6. I seem to be getting stuck on the idea of having both a Lord and Sorcerer in a unit of 10 Bikers, there is something I like about the number 12 there. ==================================================================================================== ========================================================== So I'm thinking about my list for tomorrow night, and there is something I keep coming back to: The Forgefiend. Specifically, I'm thinking about how to arm them. Originally I was thinking about 3 Ectoplasm for anti infantry and tanks. Normally I like to make my overall army and all comers list, but prefer to specialize individual units to compliment each other. I keep thinking that maybe 2 Hades Cannons and an Ectoplasm for each one would be a good idea. Versus Infantry, the template would help with AP but the Hades would still be good by forcing saves. They will be great vs vehicles as well. The main reason I'm thinking about this armament though is for when Flyers come out. The blast will be useless, but the Hades Cannons will be useable. What do you guys think? ==================================================================================================== ========================================================== I played another game last night with a new list. I'll try and remember as much of the Battle as possible, but I've been sick and may be blurry on details. My list was something I'd been thinking a bit about, and mocked up quick and rolled with yesterday. I'm thinking that tanks are fun, right? Right! Besides, I need all the conversion opportunities I can get. The other thing I'm thinking about is objectives and comp score. I got my ticket to Pax East and I'm entered in the 40K tournament. I'm going to be working hard on keeping a balanced army, Comp Score, trying different things yet getting lots of practical use out of units in order to find the best synergy. I'm also planning on having a fully converted and painted mostly Forge World army for the event. The list I played last night at 1500 points: Typhus 8 Plague Marines -Melta x2 -Power Axe Land Raider -Dirge Caster Predator -TL Lascannon Predator -TL Lascannon Heldrake -Baleflamer Heldrake -Baleflamer Plague Zombies x10 Plague Zombies x10 Plague Zombies x10 Plague Zombies x10 Plague Zombies x10 My opponents list looked like this: Typhus Plage Zombies 30ish Cultists 30ish -Heavy Stubber x2 Plague Marines x5 -Plasma x2 Plague Marines x5 -Plasma x2 Chaos Space Marines x20 -Plasma x2 -Combimelta -Pfist Tzeentch Terminators x5 -Heavy Flamer - Combimelta x3 -Chainfist Vindicator The board had lots of great terrain on it, a lot of it being ruins We rolled up Crusade with 6 objectives Dawn of War Deployment. I won first turn, we deployed objectives basically right across from each other on the right hand side of the table. I deployed my Land Raider with Typhus and the Plage Marines far up in the middle of the table. The 2 Predators were also in the middle, but closer to the board edge in ruins and close to each other. I kept all the Zombies in reserves, and of course the Heldrakes were as well. Now I know this opens me up to a lot of incoming fire on my vehicles, especially with only 3 of them on the table. They are pretty tough and in Ruins so I wasn't worried. The other bonus was that one of the Objectives in the Ruins rolled the +1 cover save, so now my tanks have a 3+ save. This made me a happy Plaguebearer. My opponent deployed his Vindicator behind a building to my far left. He then deployed both PM squads and the 20 man CSM squad and the Cultists across from my Preds and Objectives. Typhus was to my far right, on his objective and across from 2 of mine. Turn one for me went fast. I moved the Land Raider up to get shots on the Plague Marines, and opened fire with it and the Preds. Killed all but one. My opponent then moved up his Vindicator up and around the building it was hiding behind. He then moved all his units as far forward as possible. His shooting didn't do anything, the Vindicator scattered about as far as it possibly could Turn 2, 4 units of Zombies and 2 Heldrakes come screaming (and moaning) onto the board. I maneuver the Land Raider so it has shots on the Vindicator. I also shuffle my other Pred closer to the +1 Cover Save objective. The Heldrakes move in so one can flame the full unit of PM's, the other so it can do the same to the lone PM and the unit of CSM. My Zombies stumble around a little bit, trying to get close to objectives or into a position where they can cover multiple objectives as needed (yes I know they can only claim one, but who knows which one I'll need them on). My Land Raider rolls nothing but 6's against the Vindicator and asplodes it alot. Predators take shots on the lone PM, he refuses to die. Heldrakes open up and kill all but 1 PM, the other Heldrake takes out 5 Marines 3 Cultists....but can't wound the PM. My opponents Termies come in and plop down right in front of the Land Raider with their Combimeltas. The rest of his army moves up some more. The lone Plague Marines hop on top of objectives. The Termis open up, and KERBLOOM my Land Raider gets blown up but takes the shooter with it in the explosion. Typhus smiles as he shuffles out of the wreckage to face the Rubric Terminators, leaving the mangled corpse of one Plague Marine burning in the crater. All of his other shooting kills 1 Zombie. Neener neener! He attempts to charge with his own Typhus, but a roll of 4 fails to reach my Zombies. My last unit of Zombies comes onto the board, and shambles around with the rest of them. I readjust where the Zombies are to hopefully keep them out of charge range while still able to hold some of my objectives. My Heldrakes are still Zooming, so they move in for some better shots on Marines. Typhus and Company move a bit closer to the Termis. Lascannons on my Preds take out a couple more Marines, Typhus casts Weapon Virus and Contagion on the Terminators, getting -1 Str to them. The PM's open fire on the terminators, taking out 1 more. The Heldrakes open up, clearing out lots of Marines but failing again to wound the Plague Marines. Typhus and Company charge in and just chop the remaining Terminators into bit size pieces, losing 1 PM in return. They consolidate towards one of the PM's on an objective. My opponent moves everything forward again. Shooting takes out 3 Zombies. Typhus charges and wipes out a unit of Zombies. In my turn, I decide to Hover my Heldrakes. They move into BBQ position. Typhus and PM's move up into firing range of the lone PM. Zombies shuffle in order to avoid charges again. My Heldrakes move in and fail to kill PM's but they do reduce the mob of 20 CMS to it's last man. Typhus and Co shoot and fail to kill the lone PM. A unit of Zombies charge the Cultists, mainly to tie them up and avoid giving Typhus something to charge I lose combat, but it doesn't matter because they are Fearless. I try to roll a 12 to charge the PM with Typhus et al, and fail. My opponent moves his last CSM up a bit, and one of his lone PM's behind one of my Heldrakes. The PM opens up, and scores a Glance and a Pen. I save against the Pen (phew!). The other PM opens up on Typhus and Co, wounds and takes out one of my Melta gunners. His lone CSM misses. The Cultist Champ takes out the Zombie Champ, and I'm reduced to 1 Zombie. FEARLESS ZOMBIE! I move the Heldrakes up to start cooking Typhus and his Zombie crew. My own Typhus moves up into a closer range to charge that accursed undying PM! I unload all the shooting, and manage to down him with a bolt pistol shot. The Heldrakes cook the unit of Zombies, and at this point my opponent concedes. It was a great game, and I started off really strong. Two things I was concerned about in playing is my lack of firepower volume and mobility. I'm not talking about the Heldrakes, they were crazy. I think the Preds need Heavy Bolter sponsons, I'm sure that in todays meta there won't be a ton of vehicles so using the lascannons on Hordes isn't as effective as I'd like. I do love them Preds, though! Armor 13 is pretty tough, and I was making all my saves in those Ruins. Fun Fact: even though I had the 3+ save, I was still passing them on rolls of 4 and up. For the Zombies, it's nice that they are Fearless and FNP but they are morbidly slow. There's no way I'd make it to the other side of the board and those objectives. Their lack of any firepower concerns me, though I'm not sure if it would balance out to be any better with Cultists that can Run or Shoot. I like them for Objectives, but if it was Kill Points I think they might be a liability because Typhus and the PM's weren't enough mobility to get around and smash units that could threaten them. Especially after the Land Raider was offed! I did love having the extra Lascannons on the Land Raider, it's a great little unit. I get twice the firepower of a Pred plus transport capability. Plague Marines were great with Typhus, even though I did have him take most of the saves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Underbelly Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Um that's quite a lot to read! I'll comment on your last list :) These are all recommendations... Make one predator all dakka and add soul blaze Make one predator all las cannon Make two units of 25 zombies not five units of 10 Keep one on your drakes' autocannon for anti aircraft fire... I think that would help. Also if you require extra mobility then have some bikes or raptors. I personally love raptors so I'm biased and load them as follows: two melta, lightning claws, icon, melta bombs and two extra guys for seven in total. A great all purpose (and quick) unit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_f Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Great initative to take this to our forum! Keep up the good job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Great battle reports, I am currently coming back to chaos, and nurgle focused (all the way if possible). I'm not that fond of Typhus and zombies, but he is the only nurgle marked HQ to come with FNP (the mark of a true nurgle HQ, used to annoy me that my Plague marines were harder to kill with lasguns then my Daemon prince is...) but I'm glad he's been doing well for you. I'm puzzled as to how your predators would have gotten a +1 from an objective? I was under the assumption that only scoring units could benefit from mysterious objectives. I vote for twin hades and a head mounted ectoplasma, while this config normally only hits around 4 times, it has better ranged and can hit flyers. There will be a time when firing that 1 last shot is needed to down a flyer, and can mean a lot. 3 plasma is nasty, but I just feel that 2 hades is better (I also prefer to keep flamers on heldrakes, a torrenting str 6 ap3 flamer is worth its weight in gold). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 Doh! You are right about the mysterious objective +1 to cover, I'm glad I didn't need it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 After having been to 2 tournaments in October, I realize that a lot of people still don't know all the rules to 6th, which is fine as I don't either :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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