Brother RedAxe Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I haven,t been able to find anything against this but with their blind ability being worthless I was thinking of using a Raider with a dirge caster to move them safely down the field and tank shocking or just moving it to a spot where the unit in question wont be in cover from an assault then letting the talons rush out of the raider to do their thing. Possibly with a jump lord LC/chain fist to make use of his grenades. I knows last edition jump infantry could not go in transports but I don't recall reading that restriction in the new edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amalricus Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 No, jump infantry can't embark in transports, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother RedAxe Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Thanks must be in the BRB which I dont have on me atm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 You can jump them up the board behind a LR though - that could work alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortis909 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 i don't have the BRB handy so i can't look it up but i believe that jump infantry only have the bulky rule (they count as 2 for transport cap) i don't remember reading anywgere that says they cannot embark on transports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher 89 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 pg 76 of the small rule book, under transport capacity it says only infantry models can embark upon transports ( this does not include jump or jet pack infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise. so unfortunately unless the land raider says you can hold jump infantry then you cant do it , only transport i know of that can is a storm raven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Even if you could it'd be throwing good points after bad. Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortis909 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 pg 76 of the small rule book, under transport capacity it says only infantry models can embark upon transports ( this does not include jump or jet pack infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise. so unfortunately unless the land raider says you can hold jump infantry then you cant do it , only transport i know of that can is a storm raven i knew it would be there somewhere, also in relation to jumping them up behind the raiders, it seems a bit expensive, better to use 2 rhinos, i suggest kitting them out with some basic marine squad, more cover for the talons and more support should things turn ugly for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacelizard Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Still no assault grenades............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caitsidhe Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Warp Talons are dreadful. There is no way to say it nicely. I like basic Raptors, not Talons. However, if I were to put these insanely overpriced twits on the board, I would be playing Huron or Ahriman so I could nominate another character (normal infantry) to have Infiltrate. I would start them on the board and try to go second (if I get the choice) so I can be as far forward as I want and still assault on my first turn. Ideally you would place them behind some LOS blocking terrain and/or in cover so that your opponent doesn't turn them off like a light with shooting. Then on your turn, the Character that granted them infiltrate walks away from them (so as not to slow them down) in theory going the other way to meet a different unit rushing up to meet him. Your Warp Talons or Raptors are off to the races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelanen Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Warp Talons are indeed dreadful, no matter what you want to do with them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons_of_Medax Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Warp Talons are dreadful. There is no way to say it nicely. I like basic Raptors, not Talons. However, if I were to put these insanely overpriced twits on the board, I would be playing Huron or Ahriman so I could nominate another character (normal infantry) to have Infiltrate. I would start them on the board and try to go second (if I get the choice) so I can be as far forward as I want and still assault on my first turn. Ideally you would place them behind some LOS blocking terrain and/or in cover so that your opponent doesn't turn them off like a light with shooting. Then on your turn, the Character that granted them infiltrate walks away from them (so as not to slow them down) in theory going the other way to meet a different unit rushing up to meet him. Your Warp Talons or Raptors are off to the races. Problem is that you can't assault in the turn after infiltrating. So while the tactic sounds solid, it's not legal unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraull the Rampager Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Has anybody thought of teaming them up with another unit? When I played daemons, I had to tag my bloodletters up with each other when assaulting, almost sacrificing a unit in order to get a half decent charge in. If you tagged them up with a unit of raptors or bikers, or even used them as a counter assault. What's the thought on that? (I know about all the hate for them. Just asking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother RedAxe Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 I am really trying to find a good way to use them they seem almost custom made for my army its hard to call them junk. Pairing them with a jump pack lord takes care of the grenade problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Warp Talons are dreadful. There is no way to say it nicely. I like basic Raptors, not Talons. However, if I were to put these insanely overpriced twits on the board, I would be playing Huron or Ahriman so I could nominate another character (normal infantry) to have Infiltrate. I would start them on the board and try to go second (if I get the choice) so I can be as far forward as I want and still assault on my first turn. Ideally you would place them behind some LOS blocking terrain and/or in cover so that your opponent doesn't turn them off like a light with shooting. Then on your turn, the Character that granted them infiltrate walks away from them (so as not to slow them down) in theory going the other way to meet a different unit rushing up to meet him. Your Warp Talons or Raptors are off to the races. Problem is that you can't assault in the turn after infiltrating. So while the tactic sounds solid, it's not legal unfortunately. No, going second you can assault. You can't in the first turn, which the book says refers to player turn, so the player going second is allowed to assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Warp Talons are just awful. An assault unit with no assault grenades is always going to struggle. Vanguards show them up for what they are, over costed & ineffective. Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher 89 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 pg 76 of the small rule book, under transport capacity it says only infantry models can embark upon transports ( this does not include jump or jet pack infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise. so unfortunately unless the land raider says you can hold jump infantry then you cant do it , only transport i know of that can is a storm raven i knew it would be there somewhere, also in relation to jumping them up behind the raiders, it seems a bit expensive, better to use 2 rhinos, i suggest kitting them out with some basic marine squad, more cover for the talons and more support should things turn ugly for them and a dirge caster on the rhinos to stop that damn overwatch when you charge a unit lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Dunno about the overcosted thing, eg Marines stats with jumppack, daemon rule and a pair of lightningclaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Dunno about the overcosted thing, eg Marines stats with jumppack, daemon rule and a pair of lightningclaws. It's the (lack of) support-elements that make them a bad unit: They don't have ATSKNF, they don't have fearless and they don't have grenades. Every time they charge something where they have to take a diff-test they first have to surive Overwatch, and then the attacks from whatever unit they charged. They pay too much for Marks and veterans, and they can't take Icons. They probably pay for a useless rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Dunno about the overcosted thing, eg Marines stats with jumppack, daemon rule and a pair of lightningclaws. It's the (lack of) support-elements that make them a bad unit: They don't have ATSKNF, they don't have fearless and they don't have grenades. Every time they charge something where they have to take a diff-test they first have to surive Overwatch, and then the attacks from whatever unit they charged. They pay too much for icons and veterans, and they can't take Icons. They probably pay for a useless rule. Exactly. If they could assault out of deep strike or something jazzy they'd have a role/purpose... As is, they're pretty crap. Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I'd gladly pay for warp talons at the given price... if I could get just one or two of them as upgrade options in a raptor squad (though the lack of grenades would still be a sticking point). When your whole unit is made up of 30 point models that are no more durable than 13 point chaos marines against most incoming fire/attacks, then you've got serious problems, problems compounded by their lack of ranged attacks and lack of essential assault upgrades. Warp talons as a unit are worthless against walkers and terminator equivalents, due to their lack of high strength & AP2 options. Their daemon save and rending claws are wasted against gaurd equivalents - and their vulnerability to weight of fire / attacks only becomes more apparent in that match up (they aren't 'overkill', they're just 'bad' against those targets). They're only conceivably useful against marine equivalents, but even there their vulnerability to bolter fire and inability to ambush enemies in cover make them easy for marine opponents to respond to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 There's always master of deception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 There's always master of deception. Nope, MoD only infiltrates INFANTRY models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 There's always master of deception. Nope, MoD only infiltrates INFANTRY models We were just discussing this in another thread. Jump Infantry follow two sets of rules, the ones for Infantry and the ones for Jump, but "Jump Infantry" is not itself a classification according to its description on pg 47 of the DV rulebook. Since Jump doesn't disallow Infiltrate, they can in fact be Infiltrated as per Infantry. They're denied Transports specifically by the rules under Transport, so they're not Infantry in that respect, but Infiltrate says nothing about the matter. By RAW, Jump Infantry can be Infiltrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 There's always master of deception. Nope, MoD only infiltrates INFANTRY models We were just discussing this in another thread. Jump Infantry follow two sets of rules, the ones for Infantry and the ones for Jump, but "Jump Infantry" is not itself a classification according to its description on pg 47 of the DV rulebook. Since Jump doesn't disallow Infiltrate, they can in fact be Infiltrated as per Infantry. They're denied Transports specifically by the rules under Transport, so they're not Infantry in that respect, but Infiltrate says nothing about the matter. By RAW, Jump Infantry can be Infiltrated. Can we get a confirmation in official rules please? I seriously need for this to be true!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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