Raulmichile Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 So Blood Claws as Troops are screwed. A shame. Even with jump packs they are not as wonderful either, although they have their uses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264828-blood-claws-and-math-hammer/page/2/#findComment-3233900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reichfaust Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 If you want a "come at me bro" unit, its Fenrisian wolves with a priest. Run the math on that, especially at I5. then consider theyre 8pts each ...Wow. Never even really considered these as a legitimate option until now, but I like the sound of it all of a sudden. So that the Priest can keep up, do you slap a Jump-pack on him, or give him a Bike? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264828-blood-claws-and-math-hammer/page/2/#findComment-3236107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I dunno I was still enjoying the use of my BCs in a Crusader doom unit now and again.... And then 6th hit, and now you dont get extra attacks if you assault multiple units. Ive very, very rarely been able to assault only one unit with 15 bloodclaws and a Wolf Priest. And its always overkill. Its overkill on Marneus and 5 TH+SS Termies for goodness sakes. That was the end of it for me. Theyre sitting around, and the skyclaws get to play now and again when Im feeling frisky, but the standard boys are just waiting to become GHs now. Though the Priest with the SotH isnt a bad investment still, its just so many bodies and so many attacks... what am I going to hit it with that needs that much? The occaisional giant IG blob? Bleh. If you want a "come at me bro" unit, its Fenrisian wolves with a priest. Run the math on that, especially at I5. then consider theyre 8pts each ...Wow. Never even really considered these as a legitimate option until now, but I like the sound of it all of a sudden. So that the Priest can keep up, do you slap a Jump-pack on him, or give him a Bike? Jump pack, to avoid arguments over wether he can boost while the wolves run or not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264828-blood-claws-and-math-hammer/page/2/#findComment-3236114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister_wolf Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I don't know about Blood Claws but I've had a fair bit of success running 2 units of Skyclaws with 1 Jump Wolf Priest at 2000pts. They usually get targetted by the worst of the opponents list, taking the heat off your GH's and LF's and giving them near free rein to do what they want in the first 2 turns. On the few occasions where they've been ignored to target my other units they've gone on to cause absolute havoc in my opponents lines picking off 2 weaker units a turn or ganging up to take down nastier stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264828-blood-claws-and-math-hammer/page/2/#findComment-3236249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafdan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 If I could slap jump packs or mount gray hunters on bikes I would. As it stands we can't. I think the blood claws do a great job of doing what they are intended to do. That being, deal with us or we'll deal with you. Ignore bloodclaws at your own peril. When those kids hit, it's going to hurt. Period. all the math hammer in the world will tell you gray hunters are more cost effective, and they are....but they can't do what blood claws do. Namely adding that terrify factor to your army. Everyone knows gray hunters are tough as nails, but they're static. They're just infantry. Sky or swiftclaws have a much bigger threat range. Do they shoot as well as gray hunters, no. Give them a flamer or two. Can they take a banner, no. Stick a wolf priest in there and bam, there's the re-roll. Its not fair to compare the bloodclaws to the gray hunters. They're not designed to do the same thing. You wouldn't judge a screw driver because it doesn't work like a wrench. I like the bloodclaws. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264828-blood-claws-and-math-hammer/page/2/#findComment-3236264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamwulf Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Its not fair to compare the bloodclaws to the gray hunters. They're not designed to do the same thing. You wouldn't judge a screw driver because it doesn't work like a wrench. I like the bloodclaws. They are both in the Troops section- and represent 50% of the available troops options available to Space Wolves. What other unit would you compare them to in the Space Wolves codex? Wolf Guard? Wolf Scouts? Swiftclaws? Skyclaws? Long Fangs? Those have definite roles within the Codex. What are the Blood Claws designed to do? Not shoot in the shooting phase when there is a single enemy model within 6"? Not run to get closer to that unit so they won't fail the charge they have to make? Armed less then Grey Hunters, lower BS/WS... Blood Claws are a less then desirable choice within the Codex. How much of a Tar Pit unit (a term I hate, as it means you are throwing the unit away for what? But I digress...) do they make? Couldn't a unit of Grey Hunters be just as good of a Tar Pit unit? What about Fenrisian Wolves? They have no unique transport options, and you can't even take a full unit if you desire to take a dedicated transport. A Bubble Wrap unit? Yikes! Again, I think Fenrisian Wolves would make a better/cheaper choice. They were somewhat usable in 5th edition, but now, in 6th... where shooting is now the thing over assault, they just don't make the cut. Now I say all of this with a bit of disappointment. One of my favorite units in the old Codex was 14 Blood Claws, a Runepriest and a Crusader Land Raider. That unit rocked! But it also had more special weapons, power fists, and power weapons then the rest of my army combined. In the end, we play this game to have fun, and if that fun is for a player to take a bunch of Blood Claws, awesome! Go for it! For the competitive player that likes to win, or plays a lot of tournaments, then he's going to be taking Grey Hunters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264828-blood-claws-and-math-hammer/page/2/#findComment-3236338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Fear Factor? I'll take 3 Thunderwolves every time thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264828-blood-claws-and-math-hammer/page/2/#findComment-3236596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyGuyy Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I will eventually field swiftclaws this edition. I plan on running a full squad with priest AB, and WG. I expect it will be comparable to Thunderwolves, with a few more wounds and better leadership and shooty. I've run skyclaws in the past, they draw fire like champs. In particular mine like to get pinned and fail DT tests a lot, but thats just the way I roll. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264828-blood-claws-and-math-hammer/page/2/#findComment-3236923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 a 16 model unit isnt a great idea in my experiance . a winged demon prince or hive tyrant will get into combat turn 1 and chomp through your whole unit, especially if it gets iron arm, then your not even going to be able to hurt it with your normal attacks. 16 models just are not maneuverable enough to get int a good counter charge position or will get charged turn 1 as its also to large to keep out of the way. any unit close by then has to get around the unit to counter charge. winged monstrous creatures have really changed the game imo. if they get turn one then there just going to stay in combat the whole game if you have units not in forts/ruins ect thats my i choose to drop pod my grey hunters in theres days. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264828-blood-claws-and-math-hammer/page/2/#findComment-3237078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
narf Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Having started with bloodclaws, i've moved onto skyclaws and swift claws. that thats pretty much the order of deadliness/percieved threat. Bloodclaws are annoying for an opponent, but still just footslogging marines. Skyclaws are more of a surprise, and can really mess up a battle line quickly. Swiftclaws rule the roost though, especially when you tell your opponent about the constant HoW attacks, T5, 4 attacks on the charge, and the fact that if you want you can have 10 on bikes, a wg on a bike, an attack bike, and up to 4 IC's on bikes in one unit... all have their purposes and uses, and the reason why i'll always go back to troops bloodclaws in some games is becasue they are scoring. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264828-blood-claws-and-math-hammer/page/2/#findComment-3237087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 If I wanted bikes I would take allies Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264828-blood-claws-and-math-hammer/page/2/#findComment-3237230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 If I wanted bikes I would take allies swift claws beat down other marine bike units in close combat and are much cheaper, so it all depends on what you want them for. saying that i would still rather have 1 thunderwolf then 2 swift claws. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264828-blood-claws-and-math-hammer/page/2/#findComment-3237261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 25pts per model isn't much cheaper than normal bikes, especially when you are WS3 and have to pay for a Character to stop them forgoing Relentless twin linked bolters and having to charge within 6" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264828-blood-claws-and-math-hammer/page/2/#findComment-3237525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gondlir the Wandbearer Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Its not fair to compare the bloodclaws to the gray hunters. They're not designed to do the same thing. You wouldn't judge a screw driver because it doesn't work like a wrench. I like the bloodclaws. They are both in the Troops section- and represent 50% of the available troops options available to Space Wolves. What other unit would you compare them to in the Space Wolves codex? Wolf Guard? Wolf Scouts? Swiftclaws? Skyclaws? Long Fangs? Those have definite roles within the Codex. What are the Blood Claws designed to do? Add a WP with Saga of the Hunter (that's the one that gives you outflank, right?), possibly a WGPL for good measure, have them overrun an objective in the enemy deployment zone and then either park them there daring your opponent to take it off them or move on to the next objective as the grey hunters who are better suited to holding an objective arrive in their transport and take over. Since I understand you can no longer assault when you arrive from outflank, the blood claws' 15 per squad cap actually comes in handy for a change when you have to survive a turn of enemy fire. At least that's what I'm planning to do to my mate's army when I get back to Europe in january... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264828-blood-claws-and-math-hammer/page/2/#findComment-3242071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 So you've committed a minimum of 335 points to a squad that doesn't influence anything outside their 12" bolt pistol range, when for 260 points you could take ten Grey Hunters (plus 45 for the 2xmelta/axe/wulfen/standard) plus the hunter Wolf Priest and have a unit with range and rapid fire options? Grey Hunters don't need to assault. If they turn up within 12 inches of a unit you want to damage, 16 bolter shots and 2 melta shots will have an effect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264828-blood-claws-and-math-hammer/page/2/#findComment-3243075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsSlap Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 With foot slogging lists looking the norm for 6th, I wouldn't mind all those extra bodies ... Flamers and overwatch. Sadly, swiftclaws and skyclaws, are far more useful than their standard kin. There's nothing like winning a game against a Tau player, solely due to swiftclaws chasing his/her crisis suits around most of the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264828-blood-claws-and-math-hammer/page/2/#findComment-3243834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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