Army-wide rule for Dark Angels (?)

[L30n1d4s]

So, all these crazy new rumors, some sounding very cool and some potentially OPed (2++ EW Belial who can Heroic Intervention???) seem to center around Deathwing and Ravenwing. IMHO, these options add a unique mixture to the DA lore and gameplay, but generally should not be the "centerpiece" of DA gameplay.

 

As some have mentioned already, a USR for the Greenwing (i.e. Vets, Tacs, Scouts, AMs, Devastators) portion of the army might be a critical factor in defining them as the "base" of the C:DA codex.

 

So, instead of Combat Tactics (or Counterattack, or The Red Thirst), what if all units in the DA codex had the following rule:

 

"Unyielding Vengeance - All units with this rule automatically passing any Pinning checks and have the Relentless USR."

 

Now, Deathwing and Ravenwing are already Relentless and have the Fearless USR, so this would not benefit them, which is OK I think, since they will likely still be worth taking due to their unique capabilites and elite status.

 

As for the rest of the army, I think this would be characterful (i.e. Auto-pass Pinning Checks = Dark Angels are known for not being deterred from their goal, not matter how desperate the odds or how savage the enemy firepower; Relentless = reflects their implaccable advance on their enemies in pursuit of the goals), it would make them unique among other MEq armies (what other army has all of its infantry able to shoot heavy weapons on the move and charge afterwards?), and would make them very competitive. Imagine Veterans, Tac Marines, Assault Marines, and ESPECIALLY who Devastators can shoot all weapons on the move and never be pinned?

 

I think this rule would actually give them a slight leg up on C:SM and their Combat Tactics, so in my thinking maybe DA infantry would be slightly mor expensive than regular Marines to reflect this (i.e. 16 points for a Tac Marine or Scout, 17 points for a Devastator, 19 points for a Veteran; Assault Marines don't really benefit and are probably worse off than with combat tactics, so make them 16 points, vice the normal 18 points)..

 

More importantly, I think this would make "greenwing" units a very important "core" part of the DA army (kind of like Grey Hunters and Long Fangs are for SWs), rather than everyone just defaulting to Deathwing or Ravenwing. Ideally, in most cases armies would take Deathwing/Ravenwing units, but as suppliments to the main army, not as THE ARMY. Or, if they do go for RW and/or DW pure, it would be only as an expensive, elite army ala Draigowing.

 

Thoughts?

[Onisuzume]

Think we already got a wishlisting thread someone.

And army-wide relentless would probably be overpowered.

[librisrouge]

I agree, army wide relentless is too much. I think that immune to pinning would be fine though.

[IndigoJack]

Immune to pinning would be terrible. If we got that, we'd likely not be allowed to go to ground (fearless units are immune to pinning, and cannot go to ground). If we get a USR, it'll likely be stubborn.

[Brother Immolator]

I agree, though I would love to have heavy bolters with suspensors to fire on the move, its enough OP. If this is made army wide and for all weapons... I can hear even the GKs players shouting CHEEESEEEEEEE.

[twopounder]

3rd edition we effectively had army wide stubborn, which I feel is good enough. Spamming relentless just makes vehicles obsolete.

[Onisuzume]

3rd edition we effectively had army wide stubborn, which I feel is good enough. Spamming relentless just makes vehicles obsolete.

Pre-revised edition we had something far worse, actually.

A 1-in-6 chance of not being able to move them for no good reason?

Get a bad roll and your assault squad can't even assault because an enemy is in range of their pistols.

[Raven Angel]

I think its possible that we could see some mix of Stubborn and Crusader.

[Brother Immolator]

I think its possible that we could see some mix of Stubborn and Crusader.

 

Crusader?

[Chimerical]

Army-wide relentless? Not gonna happen.

 

Crusader will be saved for the Templars.

 

Aside from the rumoured plasma weapon perk, I'd expect something like Stubborn. It's the most characterful of the USRs for the DA. I also remember some rumours about getting Hatred (CSMs) - that's also plausible, if they want to continue running with the whole Dark Vengeance thing.

 

Obviously, if they were only to get the plasma perk + hatred (CSM) (which deathwing and ravenwing would also presumably get), then tactical DA marines will be a rare sight indeed. It would also make for very situationally limited special rules. So here's hoping for something like Stubborn!

[elphilo]

I think its possible that we could see some mix of Stubborn and Crusader.

 

Crusader?

 

Crusader gets an extra dice for run and chooses the highest. They also get a D3 extra on consolidation moves. Which sounds very BT to me. Not DA.

 

I would expect the Dark Angel Marines to get stubborn, ATSKNF and maybe some sort of plasma re-roll. Then you could play around with our Deathwing, Ravenwing and Chaplain USRs. Giving the Chaplains Zealot. Ravenwing Skilled Rider, Fearless and Preferred enemy Chaos Space Marines (showing that they don't know about the fallen but know enough that they know the ins and outs of CSM). And then give Deathwing, Fearless, Deathwing Assault (as they have now) and Hatred Fallen/Chaos Space Marines.

 

This way shows how a Dark Angel progresses through the Inner Circle and gain knowledge of the Fall.

[Jehoel]

Meh, Hatred USR kinda sucks when you compare it to Preferred Enemy USR. I'll take a USR that lasts for the entire combat over one that only works for the first turn.

[Brother Immolator]

Meh, Hatred USR kinda sucks when you compare it to Preferred Enemy USR. I'll take a USR that lasts for the entire combat over one that only works for the first turn.

 

I heard from a source that it wont be army wide. It will be Inner Circle only (deathwing, officers etc) and vs chaos marines.

 

On a side note a good way not to make the army OP and give the greenwing some boost, is to allow tactical squads to equip a full roster of plasma guns (4). It has an inherent danger, it can be countered and it is quite useful.

 

Crusader gets an extra dice for run and chooses the highest. They also get a D3 extra on consolidation moves. Which sounds very BT to me. Not DA.

 

Do you mean crusader seals from the BT armory, or is there a new USR in the rulebook I missed?

Agreed though, thats not our thing.

[EPK]

Crusader gets an extra dice for run and chooses the highest. They also get a D3 extra on consolidation moves. Which sounds very BT to me. Not DA.

 

Do you mean crusader seals from the BT armory, or is there a new USR in the rulebook I missed?

Agreed though, thats not our thing.

 

It's a new USR. Which leads me to believe that though BT would be very likely recipients across the board, other units from different armies may see it as well.

[Jehoel]

Meh, Hatred USR kinda sucks when you compare it to Preferred Enemy USR. I'll take a USR that lasts for the entire combat over one that only works for the first turn.

 

I heard from a source that it wont be army wide. It will be Inner Circle only (deathwing, officers etc) and vs chaos marines.

Hatred USR is only for the 1st round of CC while Preferred Enemy USR is shooting and CC without a "duration". Sounds like Hatred is weaker to me.

[elphilo]

Crusader gets an extra dice for run and chooses the highest. They also get a D3 extra on consolidation moves. Which sounds very BT to me. Not DA.

 

Do you mean crusader seals from the BT armory, or is there a new USR in the rulebook I missed?

Agreed though, thats not our thing.

 

As EPK said it is indeed a new USR.

 

Meh, Hatred USR kinda sucks when you compare it to Preferred Enemy USR. I'll take a USR that lasts for the entire combat over one that only works for the first turn.

 

I heard from a source that it wont be army wide. It will be Inner Circle only (deathwing, officers etc) and vs chaos marines.

Hatred USR is only for the 1st round of CC while Preferred Enemy USR is shooting and CC without a "duration". Sounds like Hatred is weaker to me.

 

You're right, hatred only lasts for the first round but lets your re-roll ALL failed. Preferred Enemy only lets your re-roll ones, not all. So they both have their ups and downs. The only reason I picked those two is because I felt the name, not the rule, would be appropriate for those units.

[twopounder]

3rd edition we effectively had army wide stubborn, which I feel is good enough. Spamming relentless just makes vehicles obsolete.

Pre-revised edition we had something far worse, actually.

A 1-in-6 chance of not being able to move them for no good reason?

Get a bad roll and your assault squad can't even assault because an enemy is in range of their pistols.

 

Stubborn always overruled intractable, even pre-revision. I never had a problem with it, really. It was a dumb rule, but as long as you paid the 20 points for a vet sarge with stubborn, you were fine.

 

The current chain of USR would give DA:

 

Fearless, ATSKNF, Hatred Chaos, plasma whatever

 

then (depending on list)

 

Outflank, deepstrike, deathwing assault, and Scout.

 

That's a lot of USR for one army.

[Onisuzume]

Imo, the standard battlebrother should simply get ATSKNF, Combat Squads, and Combat/Chapter Tactics.

Yeah, we're pretty stubborn, but we're also supposed to be excellent at tactics and strategy.