Chaos Traitor-chapter

[Julgolax]

Having taken a look at the DIY articles here and having read several Chaos-themed novels as well as the new codex, I want to make a warband either based on Khorne, Undivided, or Slaanesh.

 

The theme I want is the traitor chapter.

The architects of their fall would be the Alpha Legion because they have experience in turning chapters and companies to Chaos.

The army list theme I really want to stick with is the use of Cultists, generic Chaos Marines, basically a Space Marine Chapter that fell to chaos. Lord, Apostle, Warpsmith, and possibly Sorcerer.

 

Those points I have down pat. But now there are still so many more to solidify.

 

I originally wanted to go with a Khornate warband of brazen armored raiders but the prospect of painting an entire army in metallics and then getting the effect I wanted became too daunting. Then I started to question the effectiveness of Khorne marked units since getting them into close combat at all seems impossible in this edition. Then I considered going with an Undivided or Slaanesh themed army of my own but I know little to nothing about Slaanesh forces nor how to even achieve an Undivided force this edition. I'm pretty much lost at this point and now if I DO go with a Slaanesh force I'm stuck under the persona of Lornak "blood"greed. B) (not that it matters but...)

 

So from here on out I need some help here. Ask me some questions so I can answer them, that seems to help me best when I need to figure something out.

[Azekai]

So you want shooty? Unless you want Noise Marines Slaanesh's +1 Init is not really going to help much on that count. You are right on assault being rather crap this edition; I think going Undivided, possibly featuring Alpha Legion elements mixed in with your traitors would be effective and fun. Counts-as Huron is all the rage- helps get the plasma squads up nice and close.

 

Undivided units don't get much in the way of cool powers or daemon weapons, but they are cheap n' cheerful. The one exception to this are sorcerers, who don't have to pick from the (fairly lackluster) Chaos lore psychic power lists. Then you can load up on Telepathy and Biomancy powers for nasty buff/debuff combos.

 

I would leave out the Apostle, though. He is rather pants.

[Julgolax]

So you want shooty? Unless you want Noise Marines Slaanesh's +1 Init is not really going to help much on that count. You are right on assault being rather crap this edition; I think going Undivided, possibly featuring Alpha Legion elements mixed in with your traitors would be effective and fun. Counts-as Huron is all the rage- helps get the plasma squads up nice and close.

 

Undivided units don't get much in the way of cool powers or daemon weapons, but they are cheap n' cheerful. The one exception to this are sorcerers, who don't have to pick from the (fairly lackluster) Chaos lore psychic power lists. Then you can load up on Telepathy and Biomancy powers for nasty buff/debuff combos.

 

I would leave out the Apostle, though. He is rather pants.

 

Not necessarily shooty but more of a balanced list, as far as the army list portion goes. If I did ever go with Slaanesh, or any mark-themed force I honestly would stay away from cult troops because I hate them, I think they belong in their own codices along with rules suitable for them. World Eaters, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, and Emperor's Children. I'm also, if you can imagine against most of the special characters in the book because I'm against "god-like" units in general. (IMO, make special rules upgrades, like wargear. I mean Vets of the Long War is an upgrade that I find very appropriate.)

 

Here I want to make MY army with generics customized for their role and my lore to emulate that.

[Azekai]

Alright, it is your army. I respect that, but 2 issues: first, 'god-like' is not how I would describe anything in our current codex. ;)

 

Second, Huron is simply the only way to get infiltrate with out using Ahriman (and therefore is a great Alpha Legion choice). As far as making your own characters, why limit yourself to 'generics?' This isn't 3rd edition- special characters are just stats, after all; there isn't any stigma attached to using them.

[Julgolax]

Alright, it is your army. I respect that, but 2 issues: first, 'god-like' is not how I would describe anything in our current codex. :)

 

Second, Huron is simply the only way to get infiltrate with out using Ahriman (and therefore is a great Alpha Legion choice). As far as making your own characters, why limit yourself to 'generics?' This isn't 3rd edition- special characters are just stats, after all; there isn't any stigma attached to using them.

 

Chaos boons I think are pretty god-like if you can get the right ones, not to mention I think the Tzeentch and Nurgle Psyker powers are pretty sweet. I dunno, it's odd, it's like all the units I DONT like in this book are the strongest. ;)

 

As for using special characters (named ones), it's my stubborn Dornian heritage I blame! To me, what good is even having a chaos lord, chaos sorcerer, dark apostle, or warpsmith table if they aren't even useful for customizing the rest of your army?Master of Traitors isn't my idea of a game changer. Give me Abaddon, Huron, a jump pack character (Night Lords), a super-warpsmith character (Iron Warriors), a cultist master character (Alpha Legion), and Erebus, a super-dark apostle character (Word Bearers), and maybe Fabius Bile. Send those other 4 to their own codices.

 

I honestly would love to design a Chaos Lord of Khorne with a Meltapistol, Power Axe, Daemon Armor (3.5 chaos artificer armor, though Fleshmetal should be taken as an upgrade this edition ><), Mark of Khorne, Sigil of Corruption, Combat Familiar, and take Furious Charge as my special rule purchase... but I can't...

[Banelord]

For a simple theme, you could always go with a Knornate Iron Hands successor chapter. The twist being they prefer to shed blood with guns and technology instead of close combat. Maybe they believe quantity over method. Knorn does not care how the blood flows as long as it does ;)

[Julgolax]

For a simple theme, you could always go with a Knornate Iron Hands successor chapter. The twist being they prefer to shed blood with guns and technology instead of close combat. Maybe they believe quantity over method. Knorn does not care how the blood flows as long as it does :)

 

I tend to stay far away from Iron Hands and their successors for a bunch of reasons, and the most prevailent one is I've never heard of the Iron Hands or their successors ever falling prey to chaos, and rightly so because they unlike all other chapters are so dogmatically loyal to their hatred that there's really no way they'd fall to chaos. Besides we have the Iron Warriors.

 

If it came off like I wanted a shooty army, I apologize because that's not what I'm looking for. If I wanted a shooty army I'd probably go with Tzeentch or Nurgle marked chaos marines. I'm looking to stay within the realm of balance so my army doesn't get decimated on it's way across the board. I want a force that utilizes cultists and daemon engines, chaos marines and tanks but isnt restricted to one phase of combat or another.

 

Since this edition obviously DOESN'T favor close combat, going with an army full of Khorne-marked units is something I'm not experienced with.

 

What do yall think? Which god do you guys think would be best fit for me? (crosses fingers it isn't Nurgle)

[Azekai]

Sorry, it is Nurgle. ;)

 

Seriously though, the Lord of Plagues has the most consistently useful abilities. Being harder to shift is always good, especially when the other guys offer ... crappy invuln saves, boosted initiative, and some extra dice when charging? Come on. The only place the other Marks shine is on HQs for a 3++ Tzeentch character or Khorne for the obviously great Ax of Blind Fury.

 

Undivided is also an option, of course, but you were specifically asking about gods. Really, unless you are hellbent on using Khorne-marked units, you will be hard-pressed to make a balanced force, since Khorne is all about face smashing, and offers little else(and they are not even that great after the initial charge). Khorne offers a good daemon weapon, and that is about it.

[Julgolax]

Makes me angry they took away +1 Attack for MoK.

 

So tell me what consists of an Undivided force these days. Other than lack of a neutral mark, replaced by VotLW, what else can I take for an Undivided force?

 

Also, I'm not entirely sure on how Initiative is a bad stat. Why wouldn't you want to hit faster? o.0 Plus, Toughness, still pointless when facing instant death (poisoned attacks and such).

 

I might be willing to overlook the perverted overtones of Slaanesh in order to make a unique force, or the difficulty of getting into close combat for Khorne.

[Azekai]

Also, I'm not entirely sure on how Initiative is a bad stat. Why wouldn't you want to hit faster?

Because unless it is going on something really killy, it does not make much of a difference. Doesn't help at all prior to CC, and if you do get stuck in, it doesn't do much- many armies (orks, tau, guard, crons) you already beat in initiative. Slaanesh is a little bit better at MEQ killing, but I would rather be much harder to kill throughout the entire battle, rather than killing one or two more guys before they strike.

 

Case in point, I use lots of plague marines, and their lower init stat is hardly an issue, since they rarely take casualties from opponents in CC thanks to high T, FnP, and blight grenades.

 

Toughness, still pointless when facing instant death (poisoned attacks and such).

Instant death is not something that rank and file troops need to be concerned with- if the enemy is turning their S10 weapons on your Nurgle marked marines then it is being wasted, and not targeting your really scary stuff. Not sure about the poison- that doesn't cause instant death, and unless you are fighting Dark Eldar, it is not very common.

[Julgolax]

Back on topic, I'm still in need of some people to help me out with the lore and such. Like I said in the first post, it helps me if people ask me some questions about them. I have been thinking about what I want to do for a paint scheme but it's hard to make any chaos force look good if it isnt black, red, metallic, or dark in general. It's even worse if anyone (not just me) picks Khorne as their patron god.

[Julgolax]

From other people's experience, those here who have played chaos marines, what can and what cannot kill power armored chaos marines in a foot slogging force? It seems everyone who plays competatively completly disregard the worth of chaos maine resillience. If I did want to go with a khorne or slaanesh worshipping force, what would I really have to look out for on the battlefield?