I am Legion Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Today I decided to have a fun game with my firend at 2500 points. My Blood Angels VS his Necron army. What a catastrophe!!!!! My army consisted of Captain - JP, 2xLC Sanguinary Guard - Banner Sanguinary Guard 10xSternguard - PW, 2xHF, POD 10xDC-JP, 2xPW, 10xbolters, making them 2 attacks base....not great imo 10xRAS - PW, 2xMG (cause you can't charge after firing plasma guns) 10xRAS - PW, 2xMG 10xRAS - PW, 2xMG 3xLand Speeder - Asscan, HB 3xLand Speeder - Asscan, HB My opponent had something like...and sorry dont recall all their names, but ill give you a small description base lord 10xtriarch stalkers i think ---they are essentially JP terminators with 3+ save, PW, str 6 & tough 5 10xtriarch stalkers i think ---they are essentially JP terminators with 3+ save, PW, str 6 & tough 5 10xtriarch stalkers i think ---they are essentially JP terminators with 3+ save, PW, str 6 & tough 5 5xwarrior 5xwarrior 10xScarabs 10xCanoptic Wraiths (3+ invul), 2 wound str 6 JP unit 10xCanoptic Wraiths (3+ invul), 2 wound str 6 JP unit 10xCanoptic Wraiths (3+ invul), 2 wound str 6 JP unit And these are the things that are simply overpowered Canoptic Spyders - 50 point model, he had 6, creating 90 points worth of units for 4 turns in a row, cause he kept them back behind other more immideate threats: Produce 1 15 point base per turn, Monstrous creature, so smash, PW, HofW, str & tough 6 Essentially I whittled him down quite a bit. We both had an equal amount of good and bad rolls so cant blame that. But by the end of turn 5 I had 2 landspeeders left, and 20 RAS, the 3rd RAS was locked in combat with the inescapable amount of scarabs..... So these 6 50 point models created 360 additional points worth of units. Lets se, whats our equivalent for 50 points......hmmmm.....sanguinary priest with nothing...........slight balance issue??????????? But all in all he had 60 JP models which are very hard to hit, oh ya.....half his army gets back up.....and then he had a block of Scarabs, which while weak. move 12" and along with the rest of his army, charge 2D6.....Yeah I got to attack first everywhere, but he just wouldnt die. I honestly don't know how we can deal with that army...... Thoughts? Discuss.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Sky Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Triarch Praetorians are s/t 5. 3+, reanimation protocols. costing the same per model as a terminator. they are armed with a rod (power weapon and 6", str 6, ap2, assault 1). or void blade (rending, entropic strike) and particle casters (str 6, ap 5 pistol) Wraiths are unit siza 1-6. 5 points less than a terminator. rending. 3++, jump infantry. They are regarded as a very powerfull unit. Not any help with tactics, just pointing out the discrepancy with his unit size on the wraith, and the strength of his praetorians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Yeh, that list was definitely not 10 wraiths. Firstly, as noted, 10 is illegal in a squad, but more importantly 10 in 3 squads would be well, well over points. The crons are rough. But, this type of list isnt impossible to deal with. Not by a long way. But, before dealing with anti-cron tactics, I assume you'd need to look into your list a bit. Firstly, where are your priests? Why no FC/FNP? Especially with all those jumpies. Who went first? Because if you're going first, it would make sense to target the hell out of the scarabs. Once the scarab swarm is dead, they cant make any more. A frag-ioso is amazing for this. You have a stern squad too which is great for gettin in their grill, and you have 24x S6 shots in your speeders meaning every failed cover save is a dead base. Take that out and a lot of your problems are sorted. A furioso with talons also completely destroys scarabs. A raven with talon dread solves all these issues. He also only has a TINY amount of troops, so scoring for him is going to be an issue. The major issue here is that he's chosen to go fighty crons. He's fast enough with the jumpers and scarabs to get into you, but the issue is if youre going to play his game, you're going to lose. You should be staying out of range, castling, shooting the living bejebus out of him and then countering - tougher with a jumper list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmaarrkk Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Personaly you dont have enough long range fire power imo, although i do like the sound of your LS's, thats 21 dice per squadron!. I would have gone after his warriors with your land speeders then hung back/sat back and either feed his wraiths combat squads or just focused fire everything on one squad at a time, with no troops he can only win by either tabling you or killing all your troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitadelArmyGuy Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 It sounds like your friend is playing a mostly melee Necron list, which is fun and totally beat-able. Necron shooting lists are the ones that are tough, but since he loaded up on Wraiths/Spyders/Scarabs/Praetorians (all melee units) means he doesn't have any points left to really bring the nasty weight of fire that Necron lists are famous for. Oh also he cheated by being over-points and having illegal double FOC. Since he took 30 Wraiths and 10 Scarabs, the only legal way to do that is 5 units of 6 Wraith models (max unit size is 6) and one Unit of 10 Scarabs. Those 6 units are 1200pts. Then he had 6 Spyders and 30 Triarch Praetorians (Triarch Stalkers are the Walkers) so that makes 2700pts total. He's over-points and doesn't even have his 2 HQ and 4 Mandatory Troops in the list yet. I can tell he had to be playing Double FOC. Which is illegal because for Double-FOC you need 2 HQ and 4 Troops. The Spyders cannot create new Units of Scarabs. They can only create new models onto already existing Units. So if you kill the starter-unit(s) on turn 1 or 2, then they can't create any more. Sounds like he beat you by cheating. But the flagrant rules breaking aside, Morticon's advice is solid. Melee Necrons should never beat Blood Angels, not if you do it right. Let him come to you while you shoot him, and his resiliency is roughly the same as yours if you take Sanguinary Priests. Reanimation Protocols are on 5+, and so is our Feel No Pain. SO the deciding factor is that Blood Angels have more Attacks and higher Initiative. Those Praetorians only have one-attack base, so they get two attacks on the charge with Unwieldy rule...... really terrible for their points-cost even if they are Str6 AP2. The Wraiths do have more attacks but still lower initiative plus they don't have Reanimation. Final thought for you: 6 Land Speeders with AC+HB: 540pts, 42 shots 9 Land Speeders with HB+HB: 540pts, 54 shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 The other posters have already mentioned a good load of things to help you, so here's the little stuff I can add: You have all the mobility, so use it. If swarms are overwhelming you, I'd advise to focus your speeder fire on them, they'll drop dead with that amount of shots very fast. Add a nearby Libby (he can cast Prescience on vehicles, right? ) and make that unit really dangerous. Your DC. I bet they're cool-looking, but with bolters, you're not getting very far, especially without any kind of buff(Libby/Chaplain). I'd kit them out for close combat only, and smash some face. Who cares if Wraiths have a 3++ invul save if you're simply overwhelming them with S5 attacks? Add a fist here and there for some insta-gibbing goodness and you're good to go. An excellent counter unit, especially with a Chaplain to deal out a massive amount of wounds to be saved. I also advise you to include a Stormraven, and if you have the points, a Dread as well. Since you already have plenty of close-combat units, I'd drop the Sanguinary Guards as well as the Captain. The DC are, with 10 JP marines, your most powerful CC unit, so I'd stick to them, especially with all those invulnerable saves around where AP3 is as usefull as AP- . Instead, a Librarian is always a good choice as well as a Reclusiarch for the DC, or Lemartes if you don't want another HQ unit. The latter also brings 8 S8 attacks if wounded, so I'd consider him. And, now the most important issue: no Priests?? They're what makes our infantry lists powerful, so two jumpy priests are probably your best choice for this scenario. With that amount of bodies you're fielding, some FnP-goodness will get you a major step forward. Anything else has been said, really. Now, take up the fight again and show those overrated toasters who reigns the galaxy now! ;) Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmaarrkk Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Very good point Snorri, wraiths are only T4 so krak missile them fail a save and they are dead (can they do RP from insta death, dont think so only EL?). And DC will BP CCW are good at taking out good armour saves, had a squad of 6 take down 4 TH SS termies not too long ago, as long as you get the charge off though. And I third the priests, I now never play a game above 1500points without 2 of them, always keep one with my libby for FNP against perils as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Very good point Snorri, wraiths are only T4 so krak missile them fail a save and they are dead (can they do RP from insta death, dont think so only EL?). wraiths don't have reanimation protocols, so they just die (or EL) anything with he word Canoptek (sp?) can't reanimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Legion Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Alot of interesting posts here that I brought up to my friend, and he admitted he made a few mistakes with the wraith unit size....he made the list while sitting on the john... Keep in mind that we were playing to simply kill eachother, no scoring necessary. FYI - Ok so praetorians on the new FAQ have upgraded weapons - And they are Jump Infantry Page 38 - Triarch Praetorians, Rod of Covenant. Replace with the following profile: Range Strength AP Type - +1 2 Melee, Unwieldy 6" 5 2 Assault 1 Alright, so yes I didn't take Sanguinary priests this time because I was disappointed with how hard it is to roll 5+ for FNP, I really should have still. Mort, I originally had first turn but he did steal the initiative. Set up was also a little wrong. I set up more towards one side and towards the middle, while he turtled his entire force on the opposite side. That was my first mistake. My second mistake was using a 5th edition list in 6th. Meaning this edition range and firepower is a must. next time, I need DEVs with MLs. Something I never needed back in the day. I forced myself towards the scarab swarm to cut him off but since he got first turn he already produced 6 bases, and by the second turn when I began to tear into them he already had 12 additional bases over starting size. But yes, I did alot of damage to them but was stuck in combat as he brought in the rest of his army. Now he also said that the praetorians had 2 base attacks. I cannot confirm that right now, so if they only have 1 base, I will take him up on that. OMG second mistake was the assault cannon on the scarabs instant kills them!!!!! I totally screwed up!!!! I was counting them as single wounds....epic fail.... So overall many mistakes were made. I do believe Landspeeders have become great since you only swing them around troops which they mow down, and due to HPs, they take a while to kill now from small arms fire :D Next time no Bolter DC. And While I wanted to try out a captain, I think it's back to the Librarian and Reclusiarch. Devs with MLs, and even though the canoptic Spyders are filthy and overpowered for their points, I guess we still have to have priests. I also don't think you need more than 1 unit of Sanguinary Guard. The experience helped, plus I discovered he built a completely illigal list, and str 6 doubles toughness 3..... ugh.....fail.... Thanks for the help guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronotonic Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 ahh but with fnp that is still a 1/3 chance...you want it for the furious charge though that helps a lot more in cc against crons as everything but your first and axes will hit first... a basic 2k list should have 2 assault squads with priest maybe an oversized dc squad with lemartes and a libby dread... i always take 2 squads of sniper scouts for harrasing...never hurts to have them inopposite corners and in cover with camo cloaks... also if you are taking dc with bolters bad boy sir... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Legion Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Lol, I just wanted to see how they could operate, yeah...they don't work. Though there was a torrent of fire. Plus Reclusiarchs are still the best path, there is nothing better than rerolling to hit, or to wound as well. I don't think JPs are required for DC though. A Storm Raven does sound like it's gotten a boost in survivability, so why not stuff it full of black death? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Alot of interesting posts here that I brought up to my friend, and he admitted he made a few mistakes with the wraith unit size....he made the list while sitting on the john... If he brought a pen and paper to write his list down, then he could have brought his codex to know how many models he can take in a unit :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Legion Posted November 5, 2012 Author Share Posted November 5, 2012 Well he did, he said "I saw what I wanted to see, and I couldn't believe I went over points!" lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordenkenain Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Speaking as a necron player, you want to get wraiths out in the open then gun them down, cos you have to seriously outmatch them in combat to cope with a charge from them, triarchs are a joke, 3+ save 1W 1A for the same price as a termy, no thanks... and a basic overlord is little more than cannon fodder (although acceptably cheap) WBB (I joined in 3rd ed, so sue me) is only a 5+ these days and he only gets it on triarchs, warriors and the overlord, even if this list was legal, it would collapse against any attempt to gun it down rather than CC it note: WBB cannot be bypassed by ANYTHING so long as at least one model from the unit survives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 note: WBB cannot be bypassed by ANYTHING so long as at least one model from the unit survives and isn't running away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Well he did, he said "I saw what I wanted to see, and I couldn't believe I went over points!" lol.... Check his lists in future. The embarrassment of you doing this will make sure you don't get done over again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.