Candleshoes Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 While re-reading the Alpha Legion Index Astartes article the other day, I was surprised at a particular line that stood out this time around, that never really meant anything before. This might be because I am reading it in a far different light (Post Legion, The Serpent Beneath, and Deliverance Lost) and the events being set in motion within those books, might actually be headed towards a culmination mentioned in IA. Ideas and speculation have been circulating recently that the brothers have been slowly drifting apart, pursuing their own agendas, and that possibly might come into a conflict of ideals (either for loyalty to the Emperor or Chaos, or for the long-view of the acuity, or in where the Legion's future may lie.) If the Alpha Legion underwent Civil War, either during or after the Heresy, the elephant in the room has always been Eskrador. Understanding there is no truth in the retelling of the encounter (or if it took place at all), let's play out a scenario. Let's say, the event did take place the way the Ultramarine Sergeant described. Alpharius and Omegon arrived first and started their machinations for a planet wide ambush. They would have had time to set up, pick their ground, and develop their plans. It is said that Guilliman himself took the initiative to break his mold and unleash a speartip attack at what he perceived as the Alpha Legion command centre, which happened to be located in and around mountains, ravines, gullies, and valleys. If Alpharius was located there, with a small force to act as bait (as part of their "plan"), or even if he truly was caught off guard, the following line caught my attention: "Our enemies were outnumbered five to one and soon started to fall back up the mountain valley, probably to buy time for a relieving force to arrive (my Captain conjectured)." - Alpha Legion Index Astartes Article That Ultramarine observation is interesting in itself, because they assessed the situation and passed judgement on how they would have handled, or what practically would happen. Did a relieving force ever come? No. Did one ever try and turn the course of events, or intervene out of a back-up plan while the attack was going on? No. Was a relieving force or the "Jaws of the Trap" supposed to be there and turn the course of the battle, with Guilliman in the open? Maybe. That maybe is the interesting part, as it is possible if Omegon was supposed to bring a supporting force into the conflict, he chose not to and allowed his brother to die at the hands of the 13th Legion's primarch, while he lay in wait to not only inherit the mantle of Legion (and thus its future), but to attack Guilliman his in the coordinated fashion mentioned in the article. The betrayal and civil war, committed in a way where it wasn't even fought by the 2 brothers, but by 1 brother and a common enemy, makes this a very good fit for the Alpha Legion MO, though ultimately a terrible end for Alpharius himself. To add to this, at the end of The Serpent Beneath, Omegon has his scene in his arming chamber, reflecting on the 3 suits of armour infront of him, his ceremonial plate, his battle plate, and a third suit given the moniker his other suit of armour, covered by a shroud. while reflecting, he states: "Let him see the fallen fruit sitting warm and inviting in the afternoon sun... and let me be the serpent beneath. Hidden and waiting to strike." - The Primarchs, The Serpent Beneath Though we as the audience do not know who he is talking about, if you apply the above reasoning and events, it potentially could fit. It could be the beginnings of his goal of removing his brother through natural methods, and enabling him to be the soul chooser of the fate of his Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 It's a theory i've had for a while now. In fact, given the fancy Alpha Legion shirt on display at the BL weekender, i'd be surprised if there wasn't something XXth Legion based announced there. It seems like the natural progression for the Legion and one that would please me greatly, given that it would stop the Alphas looking like they win everything automatically these days. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3229297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 It's a theory i've had for a while now. In fact, given the fancy Alpha Legion shirt on display at the BL weekender, i'd be surprised if there wasn't something XXth Legion based announced there. It seems like the natural progression for the Legion and one that would please me greatly, given that it would stop the Alphas looking like they win everything automatically these days. No! That can't happen! The Alpha Legion are the best! They always win no matter what! Even when they lose they win! OMG didn't you ever pay attention to the canon? Gosh. Just give me your tots and shut up already![/troll] Actually this would make sense in explaining why Omegon might have done something such as blow up an Alpha Legion project and blame it on the Loyalists. Although it kind of scares because the first reason I could think of as to why he would, a rather childish theory of him being jealous of never being in the spotlight popped into my head. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3229446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 It mentions in the story that Omegon was perhaps privy to a third vision from the cabal's acuity, one that is most accurate to the current 40k timeline. It suggests he doesn't agree with the Cabal's scheme, where Alpharius may still be on board (or in fact just genuinely on Horus' side. He could have lied to them after all.) If he's turning against his brother, it's going to be due to a disagreement with the direction the Legion are headed, as opposed to any jealousy over who gets to be the actual primarch. Could you imagine how awful that would be if they had a schism occur due to jealousy? In the Alpha legion of all people? Those chaps who do away with personal glory and deliberately turn one face towards the enemy? It just wouldn't make any sense and it would be insulting to boot. In my more whimsical moments, i sit and imagine an entire Horus Heresy book dedicated to an Alpha legion civil war. Oh it would be glorious. You'd finish the book an emotional wreck. I WANT THE TRUTH YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH NOOOO TRUTH HANDLER YOU Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3229461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Haha, like I said, just my first thought. It was just after I read this to be fair but yeah, it's been a while since read anything to do with the Alphas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3229475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I don't think youre too far off the mark. I am a big proponent of the Legion getting a bit of a slapping sooner rather than later. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3229478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'm really confused about he alpha legion. Where does the legions loyalties lay? Alpharius? Omegons? I have read all the related books, but I am lost with all the plans in the plans which one is following the cabals plans? Has one given up on the plan and is following chaos? Has one given up on the plan and is helping the Emperor? Are both of the above happening? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3229496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'm really confused about he alpha legion. Where does the legions loyalties lay? Alpharius? Omegons? I have read all the related books, but I am lost with all the plans in the plans which one is following the cabals plans? Has one given up on the plan and is following chaos? Has one given up on the plan and is helping the Emperor? Are both of the above happening? Welllll the simple answer is nobody knows, purely because there hasn't been a definite answer yet. Pesky dissembling buggers. However, at the moment it seems as though Alpharius is the one following the cabal's plan whereas Omegon seems to be forging his own path, as evidenced by the jettisoning of the cabal's emissary in Deliverance lost and his covert attack on the Tenebrae installation in The Serpent Beneath. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3229511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I'm really confused about he alpha legion. Where does the legions loyalties lay? Alpharius? Omegons? I have read all the related books, but I am lost with all the plans in the plans which one is following the cabals plans? Has one given up on the plan and is following chaos? Has one given up on the plan and is helping the Emperor? Are both of the above happening? Welllll the simple answer is nobody knows, purely because there hasn't been a definite answer yet. Pesky dissembling buggers. However, at the moment it seems as though Alpharius is the one following the cabal's plan whereas Omegon seems to be forging his own path, as evidenced by the jettisoning of the cabal's emissary in Deliverance lost and his covert attack on the Tenebrae installation in The Serpent Beneath. Thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3230234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 For the emperor and so forth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3230244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I stand by my previously-stated assertion that no Ultramarine ever set foot on Eskrador. After all, the Chapter refuses to confirm that the battle ever even took place. Instead, I am of the opinion that the "Ultramarines" on Eskrador were one half of the Alpha Legion and the fight between Guilliman and Alpharius was actually a fight between Alpharius and Omegon. Which side is which? I can't tell you that. . . yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3230701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I stand by my previously-stated assertion that no Ultramarine ever set foot on Eskrador. After all, the Chapter refuses to confirm that the battle ever even took place. Instead, I am of the opinion that the "Ultramarines" on Eskrador were one half of the Alpha Legion and the fight between Guilliman and Alpharius was actually a fight between Alpharius and Omegon. Which side is which? I can't tell you that. . . yet. Just aswell we arent the sort of legion to deceive our brothers. Oh wait.....bugger. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3230961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Every time I think of the "I'm Alpharius" thing that the Legion have going on, I'm always put in mind of this scene I'm Alpharius and so is my wife! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3230980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Every time I think of the "I'm Alpharius" thing that the Legion have going on, I'm always put in mind of this scene I'm Alpharius and so is my wife! Quoting that scene is part of our Legion's oathing before a battle. Blood Angels have that weird blood cup thing. We have Python. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3231032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 * sharp intake of breath "Monty Python is actually an Alpha Legion spy organization that is telling us the history of True Terra! It all makes sense now! Wait, that means someone's coming to "enlighten"(read as mercilessly killing). Oh we are so screwed." On a side note, I want whatever Primarch Twin that is rooting for Chaos to win. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3231049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I stand by my previously-stated assertion that no Ultramarine ever set foot on Eskrador. After all, the Chapter refuses to confirm that the battle ever even took place. Instead, I am of the opinion that the "Ultramarines" on Eskrador were one half of the Alpha Legion and the fight between Guilliman and Alpharius was actually a fight between Alpharius and Omegon. Which side is which? I can't tell you that. . . yet. Just aswell we arent the sort of legion to deceive our brothers. Oh wait.....bugger. :D Now this is something I'd like to see; a face off between Alpharius and Omegon, using the Ultramarine heraldry as cover. Deus, that was a brilliant idea. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3231205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoros Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I want the Alpha Legion to become a shattered, infighting wreck by M41, with some "cells" openly embracing Chaos, some clinging to a goal of "help Chaos to help the Emperor" that has been impossible ever since the death of Alpharius, and everything in between. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3231260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I thought it was already there..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3231316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I stand by my previously-stated assertion that no Ultramarine ever set foot on Eskrador. After all, the Chapter refuses to confirm that the battle ever even took place. Instead, I am of the opinion that the "Ultramarines" on Eskrador were one half of the Alpha Legion and the fight between Guilliman and Alpharius was actually a fight between Alpharius and Omegon. Which side is which? I can't tell you that. . . yet. Just aswell we arent the sort of legion to deceive our brothers. Oh wait.....bugger. :) Now this is something I'd like to see; a face off between Alpharius and Omegon, using the Ultramarine heraldry as cover. Deus, that was a brilliant idea. :) Maybe the ones posing as Ultramarines were actually the ones who chose chaos over the Cabal/Emperor! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3231515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkana Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I want the Alpha Legion to become a shattered, infighting wreck by M41, with some "cells" openly embracing Chaos, some clinging to a goal of "help Chaos to help the Emperor" that has been impossible ever since the death of Alpharius, and everything in between. I'm going to go ahead and say that your wish has been granted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264995-alpha-legion-schism/#findComment-3231689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.