HS slots, how do you use them?

[Sception]

I run 6x havocs with vets, 2xAC, 2xFlakk (I would run 4x AC, but I don't have that many anymore) in an ADL w/ quad. Other than that, I've run a defiler and its done alright. Eventually I'll try my oblits, probably w/ MoN. I would run more havocs, but yeah, no more Autocannons yet. Will be converting Heavy Bolters, though.

[Spacefrisian]

Defilers, cause i like them.

[steve shields]

Honestly it's situational. If you have a tank list, do preds; if not, do havocs. Oblits are fun and as an IW i have a spot for them in my heart, but havocs are more cost effective. that's not going to stop me from using oblits though because they are still good regardless of what some people say. But, if you're going for what is the best it would be the havocs most likely.

[Max_Gore]

So min havoc squads are preferred over squads with some ablative wounds?

 

I prefer them, but it's not 100% right or wrong. They lose points efficiency when you start adding bodies, and where do you draw the line... 7, 8? Thats getting near 40 more points for a unit that is just going to be sitting in a corner until the opponent looks at it. Really, if the opponent wants your havocs dead, they will be.

 

Maybe I'd invest in more havoc bodies for larger games when still using a single force org, but in 2000 and less, I prefer to keep things cheap.

[menzer1013]

The only reason I am against adding additional havocs is you are paying 13 pts per wound and unless you let your opponent get within bolter range, the additional models are not doing anything else. 4 men working, a few men watching.

 

I prefer minimum havocs and an aegis. Gives them a cover save and some anti-air.

[tvih]

I'm not sure what the attraction is with autocannons. I do suppose they're pretty decent against some armies, but against marine armies or equivalents at least I see them as very "meh". AP4 just doesn't really cut it despite S7, and it's not even twin-linked. By comparison the twin-linked lascannon is more likely to damage vehicles, and only gives infantry invulnerability saves. Against something like Orks or (Dark) Eldar I suppose it could indeed be fine considering the lower points cost, but in an all-comers list I just don't think the AC is that good of a weapon.

 

In my currently-planned 1500pt list I personally have two tri-las Predators and a Havoc squad (or Vindicator). But the latter might get replaced by Obliterators once I buy a box of them. One consideration with the Havocs would be to equip them with four Flakk missiles and have them operate the Aegis Quad Gun, which would result in 4x twin-linked S7 and 4x S8 skyfire shots per turn (basically giving a very good chance of downing a flyer), though of course if Intercepting the Flakks wouldn't fire - but for that there's always the following turn in which to fire them separately, I guess. Another thing is of course the Flakks costing 10 points extra per launcher, so the squad with no extra members would cost a total of 175 points, more if you include a Mark or such.

[Blade_and_Honour]

I seem to have a dislike for anything with an AV... never have liked them and the times that i have used them, they have fallen apart on me.

 

The only exception to this is that i seem to have good luck with the good old rhino :P the people i seem to play against don't seem to kill the rhino i use.

 

I think that i will be going with 2 units of MoN oblits and then a unit of havoc's, tho i am no 100% on how i'll arm them, 4x autocannons or ML, something i'll have to play test. Either way, think they will be sitting behind an defence line with quad :P

 

I have been considering getting some fiends but with the lack of amour i have, i don't seem to think this will work.

[Brother Keyaetus]

I run three vindicators, its fun, and scares the crap into people

[Sanctimonius]

How are Oblits compared with the new popular and uber cheap autoHavoks? I feel the Oblits do get the chance to swap weapons depending on what they are facing, but the sheer number of autocannon shots gets you a lot of kills from smaller vehicles and fliers, while they are great against non-MEQ and decent against MEQ too...

[alphariusomegon20]

As it stands right now, it looks like I'll be running a Havoc squad with 2AC/2LC combo, a las/HB Pred, and a Defiler, though the Forgefiend does seem to be creeping into the realm of being used instead of the Pred.

[Dallas Drake]

I'm not sure what the attraction is with autocannons. I do suppose they're pretty decent against some armies, but against marine armies or equivalents at least I see them as very "meh". AP4 just doesn't really cut it despite S7, and it's not even twin-linked. By comparison the twin-linked lascannon is more likely to damage vehicles, and only gives infantry invulnerability saves. Against something like Orks or (Dark) Eldar I suppose it could indeed be fine considering the lower points cost, but in an all-comers list I just don't think the AC is that good of a weapon.

 

In my currently-planned 1500pt list I personally have two tri-las Predators and a Havoc squad (or Vindicator). But the latter might get replaced by Obliterators once I buy a box of them. One consideration with the Havocs would be to equip them with four Flakk missiles and have them operate the Aegis Quad Gun, which would result in 4x twin-linked S7 and 4x S8 skyfire shots per turn (basically giving a very good chance of downing a flyer), though of course if Intercepting the Flakks wouldn't fire - but for that there's always the following turn in which to fire them separately, I guess. Another thing is of course the Flakks costing 10 points extra per launcher, so the squad with no extra members would cost a total of 175 points, more if you include a Mark or such.

 

Well, what are you shooting at? I use Autocannons for popping open anything AV11 or AV12. Baleflamers do the rest. AV13-14 gets a whole different type of attention.

 

In my utilization consider;

 

4 Autocannon Havocs

Shots: 8

Hit Chance: 66.67%

Hits: 5.333

Glancing Chance: 16.67%

Penetration Chance: 33.33%

Glancing Hits: 0.889

Penetration Hits: 1.778

115 points

 

4 Lascannon Havocs

Shots: 4

Hit Chance: 66.67%

Hits: 2.667

Glancing Chance: 16.67%

Penetration Chance: 66.67%

Glancing Hits: 0.444

Penetration Hits: 1.778

155 points

 

So, Lascannons pen a bit better but Autocannons glance more, in fact Autocannons get 2.677 hits vs Lascannons 2.222 hits, which matters with the new Hull Point rules. But, ultimately they're doing very similar things albeit for a 40 point difference. I'm not saying Lascannons are a bad choice, I actually think that once you get to AV12 & 13 territory they shine but for popping open transports - which is what I really want - Autocannons do nicely. If I wanted to handle higher AV, like 13 or 14 I'd probably still not use Lascannons since I prefer to get Armourbane in there if I can.

 

As for extra bodies, depends on your meta I guess but I've already covered the quite considerable pluses of adding in a few bodies, the downside... 26 or 39 odd points, not exactly the end of the world on a HS unit. Min sized Ld8 Havocs (Ld8 because the Champ is basically your only body bag) can & will run away, it's happened to me so from now on it's fundamental they have a strong leadership value. Oh, & extra bodies allow you to do some interesting tricks, not going into it here but lets just say I won't be losing all 4 HWs to a single Demolisher shot.

 

Dallas

[minigun762]

Nice discussion Dallas. With the lascannon, I think the AP2 is quite significant against the increased 2+ models. Against transports I agree the AC is king though. I've considered a mix of AC & LC havocs. Might be worth the added cost.