MoN of MoS on Bikes?

[Scipeo]

Just wondering what other people thought on FNP vs T6 on the bikers load outs.

[Warmammer]

nurgle

[Chimerical]

First off: In general, you should keep them naked of marks until reach the upper limits of their size. At their price, extra bikers trumps the benefit of any of the defensive marks.

 

Second: If you're investing in 10 bikers, you probably want to send them into close combat. So give them the Mark of Slaanesh; they'll beat up on most regular infantry, and striking first means they'll retain effectiveness even after one or two fights. Still have points for Icon of FNP? Awesome.

 

Just make sure you have a fearless character babysitting them.

[John_f]

MoS unless running an Epidemius list. I think mathhammer proves that on everything above S4, FnP is better then T6. Plus the Initiative bonus. Plus you can take a lord with steed to give the unit outflank and accute sences. Great for taking out those pesky backfield artillery pieces / tanks.

 

Edit: T5 and jink means that you get 5++ cover and 5+ FnP on most everything, including lascannons and such.

[Excessus]

I think the math has already been done on this, right?

[the jeske]

you take pms ? you have a nurgle lord . you have a nurgle lord ? nurgle bikers . at all other moments the lord is an ax lord , which makes the bikers unmarked most of the time . MoS on bikers would mean someone is playing the steed MoS lord with infiltrating cultists set up and bikers with a biomancy sorc .

[Minsc]

The Math is done already:

MoN is better against S4.

MoS is better S2-3 and S5-9.

They're eually "bad" against S10.

 

I prefer MoS since it gives some other bonuses (+1 I is both a defensive and a offensive boost), and don't forget the +1CR from the Icon.

[Lepaca]

you take pms ? you have a nurgle lord . you have a nurgle lord ? nurgle bikers . at all other moments the lord is an ax lord , which makes the bikers unmarked most of the time . MoS on bikers would mean someone is playing the steed MoS lord with infiltrating cultists set up and bikers with a biomancy sorc .

 

Sorry for the off-topic but:

 

Can you elaborate on that infiltrating cultist set-up?

 

EDIT: Also, why a biomancy sorc? Wouldn't invisibility be the better pick for bikers (2+ cover and such)?

[the jeske]

some people like to outflank a unit of cultists in mauler fiend builds at2k points because it gives them 2 units coming out on 2-3 which shouldnt be shot at a lot [unless the DP and maulers are dead , but if that happened it doesnt if cultists die anyway].

 

as the sorc goes , If someone plays sorc/huron , then there is no killer HQ in the army if he takes telepathy for buffing/debuffing. Some people take biomancy then to get high T sorc to either tank stuff or to do melee .

[Lepaca]

some people like to outflank a unit of cultists in mauler fiend builds at2k points because it gives them 2 units coming out on 2-3 which shouldnt be shot at a lot [unless the DP and maulers are dead , but if that happened it doesnt if cultists die anyway].

 

as the sorc goes , If someone plays sorc/huron , then there is no killer HQ in the army if he takes telepathy for buffing/debuffing. Some people take biomancy then to get high T sorc to either tank stuff or to do melee .

 

So the cultists would be set up as a CC unit?

[the jeske]

nope they would be set up to go to the ground and live to turn 4-5 and hope for rolling of end of game before being targeted in assault or killed through shoting .

[Scipeo]

So should i go 6 Bikes MoN or 5 MoS IoExcess?

[clever handle]

why not MoK?

 

unit of 5 bikes c/w PS & 2 PG & MoK gives you rapid-fire TL bolters & plasma, 26 WS4, S4 attacks on the charge. That's 4 plasma shots & 32 S4 shots into a single unit. The damage output potential is huge. MoS doesn't really pay off unless you also take the icon & that starts to become VERY pricey for a non-scoring unit

[Minsc]

So should i go 6 Bikes MoN or 5 MoS IoExcess?

 

On such small squads I would go MoN.

MoS is better on bigger (8-10) squads, since there's a smaller chance of the Icon getting killed early, and because the Icon costs 7 pts / model at 5 bikes, but costs 3,5 pts / model at 10 bikes.

[Excessus]

I use MoK bikers to go around with my jugger lord. Their plasma shots are useful throughout the game and they can keep up with the lord...

[SCOOBYSHAG]

why not MoK?

 

unit of 5 bikes c/w PS & 2 PG & MoK gives you rapid-fire TL bolters & plasma, 26 WS4, S4 attacks on the charge. That's 4 plasma shots & 32 S4 shots into a single unit. The damage output potential is huge. MoS doesn't really pay off unless you also take the icon & that starts to become VERY pricey for a non-scoring unit

 

Throw an Icon of Wrath on those bikers and they are S5 and can reroll charge ranges

[John_f]

So should i go 6 Bikes MoN or 5 MoS IoExcess?

 

If not running a full 10 man squad, then added bikes are worth more then marks.

 

Think about it: 6 bikes MoN is 156 but for only 4 points more you can get 8 unmaked bikes. No, I don't have the codex here so my points may be off bu the point is still valid.

[allwaysoffside]

It’s impossible to say which is best surely, unless you are looking at the rest of the army as well. Or at least what you plan to do with them.

 

My bike set up is below, and I have explained why I’ve done it. Please feel free to comment and question. BTW the rest of my arm is two large units of cultists with Dark Appostle (for fearless on one, LD10 on the other), oblits, havocs and CSM plasma squad.

 

I have 3 MoN bikes with meltas, Lord with MoN bike, fist sigual, 7 Mos bikes, no SW and IoE.

 

The 3 bikes (145pts) have MoN to improve there ability to take small arms fire as they hunt tanks. IoE is too expensive on a small unit and if you suffer two wounds, you need to choose between the champ and icon bearer.

I could drop the marks and go for 4 bikes, but this means my champ is now T5 and would need a power sword for challenges not a fist as he is still likely to die from power sword attacks before he attacks back.

Losing the fist means losing 2xS8 attacks in CC when my targets are tanks. I could load him up with melta bombs, but if these guys get close to a HQ unit, with T6 in a challenge means it’s not impossible for him to see the last round of combat with a S4 character even with AP3. And with S8, AP2 weapon, it’s not impossible to see him killing a lord of some degree. So they have MoN to ensure they are able to use the fist to the best of its ability as it where.

 

The 7 MoS bikes (214) have no SW’s as they will be turbo boosting up the park with the Lord. Why have SW’s on a unit that might only fire them once? Maybe if the upgrades where cheaper, but they are not.

Why marks and not more bikes. MoS is 2 pts. A 10% increase to go first against MeQ’s. Easy option as I want these guys to be a shock unit firing into and charge a unit before destroying it in the same turn. This 10% increase means when I charge I get 7 I10 S4 attacks, 18 I5 S4 attacks, 4 S4 AP3 attacks.

Now IoE. Again I could go for more bikes, but once you go above 5 bikes IoE is more economical at increasing survivability of the unit. IoE raises the cost per model by 22% in a 7 man unit(5pts per model), but increases survivability by 33%. also +1 combact result helps in maing them run away.

NOTE: MoS bikes with IoE are harder to kill the MoN bikes and cheaper in units of 7 or more. Just beware of HQ precision shots.

 

The lord (150) goes with MoS bikes to aid in the one round assault task. And has MoN for the same reason the other MoN guys do with a power fist. It gives you a good chance of getting a number of S8 attacks in at I step one. This guy is a monster with T6 (No ID with 3 wounds), 3+/4+++save, WS6. He can go toe to toe with a dreadnought for a few rounds, but really does his business against other HQ’s in a challenge.

3 attacks not on the charge with WS6, S8 AP2. If he gets to attack in a challenge, he should ID his opposition, if not he is going to wound on a 2+. Result. Its a shame he can’t benefit from the IoE though, although this would be broken. Majorly broken.

 

I did look at MoS and steed. But I like the Power fist in challenges causing ID. And whilst T5 FnP is good, I’m paying for I5 also, and then strapping a power fist to the guy. Not a good idea. He can also be ID’d. So I prefer MoN for a lord.

 

 

That’s my take on NoM or MoS bikes.

MoN bikes are not as tough as FnP bikes, but cheaper in small units and handy in getting a power fist into a challenge.

MoS are better in assault, but need to be in larger units to make the IoE worth it and then need to worry about the icon being killed. Lords etc still susceptible to ID.

[Caffeineated Chaos]

Easy option as I want these guys to be a shock unit firing into and charge a unit before destroying it in the same turn. This 10% increase means when I charge I get 7 I10 S4 attacks

14 s4 "attacks" Bikes are relentless, rapid fire those TL bolters(one of the reasons plasma guns are nice in large bike squads)

[allwaysoffside]

Easy option as I want these guys to be a shock unit firing into and charge a unit before destroying it in the same turn. This 10% increase means when I charge I get 7 I10 S4 attacks

14 s4 "attacks" Bikes are relentless, rapid fire those TL bolters(one of the reasons plasma guns are nice in large bike squads)

 

 

Those are my hammer of Warth attacks. But you are right, twin linked bollter finre into the unit as well means an additoinal 14 "attacks". I would go plasma but I need the points else where and I can avoid Teq's with this unit.

[Caffeineated Chaos]

Easy option as I want these guys to be a shock unit firing into and charge a unit before destroying it in the same turn. This 10% increase means when I charge I get 7 I10 S4 attacks

14 s4 "attacks" Bikes are relentless, rapid fire those TL bolters(one of the reasons plasma guns are nice in large bike squads)

 

 

Those are my hammer of Warth attacks. But you are right, twin linked bollter finre into the unit as well means an additoinal 14 "attacks". I would go plasma but I need the points else where and I can avoid Teq's with this unit.

Ah, my bad, forgot about the hammer... >.<

[John_f]

The lord (150) goes with MoS bikes

 

I'm pretty sure a MoN lord can't join MoS bikers..

[allwaysoffside]

The lord (150) goes with MoS bikes

 

I'm pretty sure a MoN lord can't join MoS bikers..

you're right. My mistake. I haveing to rejigg my army as whilst the lord was not the be all and end all of the lstig. It did kind of dictate my HQ slots.

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

IoE is too expensive on a small unit and if you suffer two wounds, you need to choose between the champ and icon bearer.

 

This is probably just something I'm missing here, but the codex says "One MODEL in the unit may purchase one of the following Chaos Icons:"

 

The champion is a model in the unit. Why can't he carry the Icon?

 

Dan

[Narse]

The new difficult terrain rules with bikes also help Feel no Pain beat toughness 6 I believe.... in addition the Feel no Pain given to a MoS Sorc is a nice anti-perils addition.