Questions for all GK players

[ShasVa]

I'll get to the point: I'm thinking of getting Grey Knights as an army, because they seem small in squad-sizes, but also powerful for the cost paid.

I'd like to get opinions from others who play them before I spend money on them.

 

1) Excluding the potential for Acolytes, do you mind that GKs don't have "direct" access to AP1/Melta weapons?

2) With regards to the above, does it matter to you that such weaponry for the GK is denied?

3) Do you mind that Draigo's melee weapon is only AP3? How do you get used to/around this?

4) Do you mind that you don't have access to Land Speeders, Bike squads, Predators, Vindicators, and the rest?

5) Seeing as the Stormraven is your only flyer choice, is it a good choice to take in an army?

6) For anyone who has used them against Tyranids, do you encounter any problems because of "Shadow of the Warp"?

7) Is Draigowing still a viable tactic for a 2000pts or under game? What about above that?

 

It would help me immensely if these questions could be answered. They may even decide if I stay playing the game or not (I've thought too big in the past, so a small but powerful army might be best).

[jeffersonian000]

1-2) Psycannons can destroy Land Raids, we don't really need Melta weapons

3) With most of our CC weapons now AP3, all that changes for us is a general avoidance of getting into assaults with TEQ. Other than that, no real change.

4) Not really. GKs have always been an elite army with few, yet powerful options. We're the best of the best of the best, and have units that fill every niche quite well.

5) Some people love Stormravens, others not so much. Personally I find most players either build to defeat flyers, or they build to ignore flyers. Doesn't matter which school you fall into, as your army build will reflect your playstyle in this. That goes for all armies, not just GK.

6) Yes, Shadow of the Warp is a huge problem for GKs ... if you rely on powers. We can build our armies so that we never have to roll for a power activation, it just takes either a specific build (Banners), or a specific playstyle (play like you have no powers). Personally, I find 'Nids to my toughest opponent.

7) Draigowing is still viable at 1000pts and above, as most opponents build to defeat MEQ, not TEQ. Against a prepared opponent, no army list is safe. Most old time GK players are aware of this and play a flexible game with their chosen army build.

 

SJ

[ShasVa]

I forget; is SotW board-wide, or only within the radius of certain models?

[Gentlemanloser]

1) Excluding the potential for Acolytes, do you mind that GKs don't have "direct" access to AP1/Melta weapons?

 

Yes. But this no easily fixed with Allies. IG can bring a lot of Melta.

 

2) With regards to the above, does it matter to you that such weaponry for the GK is denied?

 

Yes. Makes no thematic sense, and isn't internally consistent. It's not even a balance concern now, becuase of Allies.

 

3) Do you mind that Draigo's melee weapon is only AP3? How do you get used to/around this?

 

Not particularily.

 

4) Do you mind that you don't have access to Land Speeders, Bike squads, Predators, Vindicators, and the rest?

 

Allies.

 

5) Seeing as the Stormraven is your only flyer choice, is it a good choice to take in an army?

 

Better than the StormTalon, and makes Psykers cry. Not as good as Vendetta's. But then I hope you guessed the answer. :blush: Allies FTW.

 

6) For anyone who has used them against Tyranids, do you encounter any problems because of "Shadow of the Warp"?

 

Not faced 'nids. But really, who cares. Our Psychic Powers are just addedd extras, and we shouldn't and don't need to, rely on them. If you can kill Eldar with no Psychic Rolls, you can faceroll 'nids. :huh:

 

7) Is Draigowing still a viable tactic for a 2000pts or under game? What about above that?

 

Yes, no, maybe. Too many variables. Besides, currently, nothing is 'viable' in the face of 27 Flamer/Screamer lists. /bitter

[spartan249]

I don't care about GKs lacking melta/plasma, we have psycannons. It's the ultimate compromise between anti-armor and anti-infantry. I literally need nothing else.

 

Draigo's AP3 is irrelevant. He's there to protect the squad, not to kill. That's the paladin squad's job. With 9 daemon hammers available in the squad, they're good enough at that job.

 

With everything we gain, I really don't care about any of those other SM units. We don't need them. Unlike C:SMs, our troops are versatile and mobile, not to mention efficient and powerful.

 

Stormravens are situational, but are still required if you're not employing allies to cover anti-air. I think they're decent enough, though they're a far cry from the vendetta.

 

Shadows in the warp isn't that big a concern to me. Runes of Warding is, as that is much more deadly.

 

Draigowing is now a finesse army. Mistakes are brutal, and a few bad rolls can cost you the game in a heartbeat. The payoff can be spectacular though, as there aren't very many units that can match the tactical supremacy of Paladins.

[DinoDoc]

7) Is Draigowing still a viable tactic for a 2000pts or under game? What about above that?

 

Yes, no, maybe. Too many variables. Besides, currently, nothing is 'viable' in the face of 27 Flamer/Screamer lists. /bitter

Lawl. Unbeatable daemon list. :huh:

[Reclusiarch Darius]

1) Excluding the potential for Acolytes, do you mind that GKs don't have "direct" access to AP1/Melta weapons?

 

It's a question of match-up. If you do fight a lot of AV13/AV14 (double Raider lists, Necron AV13 spam lists, Bangles six fast Predator list), meltaguns are pretty clutch. 6th edition is really pushing infantry though, with vehicles relegated to their proper place of support (not being the army in and of themselves, which was always dumb). So yeah, against those kinda lists, Allied multi-melta Attack Bikes or fast units with melta (Assault Marines, Bikers etc) are handy. But we have the Vindicare, and psycannon Rends usually get us out of trouble against a handful of AV13/14.

 

2) With regards to the above, does it matter to you that such weaponry for the GK is denied?

 

Nope. Psycannons are the best special weapon in the game, hands down. Other armies would kill for that kind of reliable, consistent firepower. It can kill anything in the game, no matter what your defenses are (high AV, PA/TDA, strong invul save, multiple wounds). We also have PsyDreads to dominate the AV10-12 armour spectrum (and they are still pretty tough in 6th). In any case, if you really want it, Jokaero can provide lascannons, servitors can provide plasma cannon, and Acolytes can bring meltagun.

 

3) Do you mind that Draigo's melee weapon is only AP3? How do you get used to/around this?

 

Pick your fights. Its really only Marine characters with 2+ armour, Drahzar and Iridium Armour XV8 Commanders are really the only non-Imperial examples. Draigo is still a nightmare in a challenge, and with more psykers and Daemons on the field (psykers are back in fashion, Daemons can be allied with CSM now), his S10 ability is more relevant than ever. He is going to flub against that TDA Marine hero, or say Abbadon, but them's the breaks.

 

4) Do you mind that you don't have access to Land Speeders, Bike squads, Predators, Vindicators, and the rest?

 

No. We play differently to Marines, and including that stuff would've made us pretty overpowered. We don't really need any of it anyway (part of the problem of Marine allies in general, they replicate our stuff). Land Speeders are paper mache skirmishers, people only take them for the cyclone missiles (which our PsyDread already provides largely). Bike squads are quite a good Ally addition, but they are expensive in an already expensive elite army. Attack Bike squadrons I like though, they are pretty cheap and disposable. Preds are meh (PsyDread does its job, and can climb buildings), Vindicator would be nice but we already delete Marines pretty well.

 

5) Seeing as the Stormraven is your only flyer choice, is it a good choice to take in an army?

 

I'd say its the 'most improved' unit, circa 6th edition. Its still nowhere near as good as the Vendetta (nothing is, that thing is stupidly underpriced), but in the context of our army, its a great delivery system for Purifiers, Paladins or melee Henchmen. I'd say you need a plan to take it, you can't just throw it into a list. But yeah, its worth taking, provided you are using it as intended (its an assault unit delivery system first, gunboat second).

 

6) For anyone who has used them against Tyranids, do you encounter any problems because of "Shadow of the Warp"?

 

Yes and no. It is a powerful ability, but they basically are in melee range for it to work. Bro Banner ignores it too. I find 'Perils' crops up even without 'Shadow' in play, so its a general thing to watch out for (you are going to lose Justicars/Flame Knights to it now and then).

 

7) Is Draigowing still a viable tactic for a 2000pts or under game? What about above that?

 

Depends. It's like Deathwing, if you are doing it right and know how to use it, its a powerful force. It's not for newcomers though, I'd play a standard Knight force or mix in Henchmen/Allies before trying for PaladinWing.

[ShasVa]

These have been excellent and honest replies. Thanks a bunch everyone.

 

I asked the questions because I was thinking of actually playing Grey Knights. I'd be willing to play with a small but powerful army, and could live with the high cost/low model thing they have going. I've tried many armies before (good guy ones anyway), but haven't stuck with them for long.

 

I'll give Grey Knights a real go, but if I end up not liking them either, then that'll be that for the hobby for me. :S

[Reclusiarch Darius]

These have been excellent and honest replies. Thanks a bunch everyone.

 

I asked the questions because I was thinking of actually playing Grey Knights. I'd be willing to play with a small but powerful army, and could live with the high cost/low model thing they have going. I've tried many armies before (good guy ones anyway), but haven't stuck with them for long.

 

I'll give Grey Knights a real go, but if I end up not liking them either, then that'll be that for the hobby for me. :S

 

No worries mate. I'd play practise games at 1.5k, and a lot of them. Even we aren't entirely sure of how 6th edition works just yet, and the meta-game is still fluid. So, play a lot of 1,500 point games, see what units work for you.

 

As a matter of general advice:

 

- Favour more dudes over upgrades/expensive lone models

- Favour infantry over vehicles

- Try to bring a balance of anti-tank, anti-infantry, and melee units. Knights can do all three but you still need specialist support (PsyDreads, plasma cannons, Dreadknights, Vindicare etc). It's one of the most challenging aspects to 40k, as GW doesn't design the game to work at 1k (1,500 barely allows for the basics), and points are always at a premium for us. Experiment with Henchmen and.or Allies.

[shortysl]

I can answer virtually every one of those questions with one word: no.

 

Nigh on all of those points involve comparison to other Space Marine chapters and I can honestly say that I collected Grey Knights precisely because they AREN'T the same as other Marine chapters. If I was concerned about most of those points, I never would've collected Grey Knights to begin with.