Bike bikes bikes

[allwaysoffside]

After a big post on what is “better” MoN bike or MoS bike with IoE I got thinking about how to play bikes and their roles in an army. I have a few ideas. What are other peoples? Because depending on who you fit them out they are very adaptable.

Let me start.

 

Assault squad

 

I love the idea of a unit of bike charging and wiping out the enemy before they attack back. Like the old English heavy cavalry, but more twisted, and smelling of petrol. To fit the fluff, they need to be I5 so I went MoS. After seeing how resilient it made them, I had to equip the IoE. A unit of 7 (which is the point where MoS bike with IoE become cheaper then MoN bikes) gives you;

14 twin linked bolter shots, 8 hammer of wrath attacks, 18 normal attacks, 4 power sword attacks. Which come to 12 saves, 1 dead Meq. Hardly the total route I want.

As my lord will be with the bikes, the idea of challenging with my champ and keeping my lord free has been entertained. But my Lord is armed especially for challenges in a way my champ can’t be (talked about below). So this unit is meant for HQ’s so it will be warlord against warlord. If I charge a troop selection it will be in order to power my lord up on the boon table.

So I’m considering plasma guns. 2 of.

This gives me another 2 Meq kills.

Running total of 3 Meq kills, 11 saves (taking away bolter saves for plasma kills). This is on average 7 dead marines. With out the chance to attack back. By adding 3 more bikes, I can expect them to make an average of 14 saves. Resulting in one more kill. Which is not worth it. So there you go:

 

7 MoS bikes, IoE, 2x plasma gun, and champ and power sword accompanied by warlord to over power in round one of combat. The only issue being is that now the freaks are stood in front of an army, not in combat having just shown their potential. However with T5, 5++ save and FnP they should weather it well. And this unit operates with a major tarpit unit in the middle. So hopefully a majority of the enemy units are already engaged or occupied.

 

 

On to HQ,

Nurgle lord, on a bike, with a fist and sigual. Let me explain.

Firstly no ID from anything except weapons that are special rules ID. Protect your wounds.

As I can’t not be ID’d, I can afford to risk a PF. Try and take 3 wounds away form a T6 chaos lord with a sigal in a challenge.

And let’s face facts, most challenges faced will be against T4 opponents. So it’s a case of ID first round. And even if not. S8Ap2. The pressure in on the other guy to kill me before I get to I step 1, not on me to make it.

The only way I can see this going bad is force axes. As swords need to wound on 6’s and staffs need to wound on a 4 and get past power armour. Axes wound of a 4, and cause ID. But they also go last. And I have a sigual. So save assaulting a terminator squad, I can not see major threat.

 

 

Interesting in how other people play bikes. And what kit people use and why. Including scocerers ETC. Let me know.

[The Colossus]

You can't put a Nurgle lord with Slaanesh Bikers right? No mixing of marks...

[Caffeineated Chaos]

First paragraph, "12 saves, 1 dead meq" how does that work, a 3+ means you save 2/3 of the time, or fail 1/3 of the time, so 12 saves should be 4 dead. Am I missing something?

[tvih]

First paragraph, "12 saves, 1 dead meq" how does that work, a 3+ means you save 2/3 of the time, or fail 1/3 of the time, so 12 saves should be 4 dead. Am I missing something?

Hmm yup.

 

"14 twin linked bolter shots, 8 hammer of wrath attacks, 18 normal attacks, 4 power sword attacks. Which come to 12 saves, 1 dead Meq. Hardly the total route I want."

 

So 14 TL bolter shots. On average 9 would hit on the first try with BS4. Then 3 more on the second try. 12 hits. Of those half cause a wound against MEq. 6 saves, 2 dead.

 

8 HoW autohits. 4 wounds, 1 dead.

 

18 normal attacks. 9 hits. 4-5 wounds. 1-2 dead.

 

4 power swords attacks, 2 hits (or 3 if higher WS), 1 wound, 1 dead.

 

Total 5-6 dead on average.

[Warsmith Aznable]

How about this for an assault retinue:

 

Slaaneshi biker squad

Champion - Power Lance

Icon of Excess

x2 Meltaguns

Extra guy to ride in front of pack (and make squad 6 guys)

Squad gets VotLW

 

Slaaneshi Biker Lord

MoS

Chaos Bike

Sigil of Corruption

Combat Familiar

VotLW

Black Mace (or Dimensional Key if you want to gamble on getting a mobile deep strike beacon early in the game)

 

Theory: Begin in cover, ride like you're chasing Doomrider, bowl over MEQ by using the power lance to skewer enemy sergeants and the lord/retinue to clean up, slag enemy tanks with meltaguns, and avoid enemy elites with speed.

[Fibonacci]

You can't put a Nurgle lord with Slaanesh Bikers right? No mixing of marks...

You can mix some marks but Khorne hates Tzeench and Nurgle hates Slaanesh so you are correct, you can't join a Nurgle lord with a Slaanesh unit.

[Attomsk]

You can't put a Nurgle lord with Slaanesh Bikers right? No mixing of marks...

You can mix some marks but Khorne hates Tzeench and Nurgle hates Slaanesh so you are correct, you can't join a Nurgle lord with a Slaanesh unit.

 

No, you can't mix marks period.

 

I plan on running a 5 man biker squad with melta guns, MoK, Icon of Wrath, and a power sword champion with VOTLW.

 

Joining them will be a chaos lord on a bike with the MoK, Axe of blind fury, sigil of corruption and VOTLW.

 

If I don't plan on running into space marines I will remove VOTLW from these units. The goal is to burn maim and kill.

[Warsmith Aznable]

You can't put a Nurgle lord with Slaanesh Bikers right? No mixing of marks...

You can mix some marks but Khorne hates Tzeench and Nurgle hates Slaanesh so you are correct, you can't join a Nurgle lord with a Slaanesh unit.

 

You can't mix Marks at all anymore, fluff considerations aside. In both the Daemons codex and the new Chaos Marines codex no Independent Characters may join units with different Marks.

[Kelanen]

You can mix some marks but Khorne hates Tzeench and Nurgle hates Slaanesh so you are correct, you can't join a Nurgle lord with a Slaanesh unit.

 

Nope, Khorne hates Slaanesh, and Nurgle hates Tzeentch, but that's utterly irrelevant this edition.

 

No mixing marks, at all, ever. Period.

[techsoldaten]

Theory: Begin in cover, ride like you're chasing Doomrider, bowl over MEQ by using the power lance to skewer enemy sergeants and the lord/retinue to clean up, slag enemy tanks with meltaguns, and avoid enemy elites with speed.

I like this a lot, and that's very similar to how I am running Slaaneshi bikers right now.

 

I have played 3 games with them now in 10 man units, the only time they did not come up big was against a ton of Tau shooting. This could have been mitigated with better tactics.

 

The Hammer of Wrath, T5, +1 I and FnP is an excellent combination and produces some very killy bikers. While I realize they would be harder to kill with a Mark of Nurgle, the benefits of the enhanced initiative become very clear once you are in cc. In my last game versus Space Marines, I was able to mow down 2 10 man tactical squadrons with a single unit of bikers. To give you a sense of the mechanics, on the first assault:

 

- I was able to shrug off a wounds from an overwatch shot with Feel No Pain

- I was able to kill 1 marine with Hammer of Wrath

- I was able to kill a sergeant in a challenge with my biker champion and picked up Venemous for his troubles

- I was able to kill 3 marines in normal cc with the 18 hits the unit threw down

- I was able to kill 2 marines with the black mace, the first being the one that was hit, the second being the guy next to him

- I was able to make my saves against the attacks returned by the 3 remaining marines

- I was able to catch the remains in a sweeping advance and wipe them out

 

Now, about that tactical precision: bikers are large models and it is hard to get them into cover. An excellent tactic against bikers is to focus fire with one unit and shoot something big (i.e. a rail gun) into the models in cover afterwards. It seems to me that focus fire is going to be our achilles heel, with enemies lining up at angles where they can maximize the visibility of units over time.

[Iron_Within]

You can't catch SM in sweep due to ATSKNF

[Excessus]

You can't catch SM in sweep due to ATSKNF

Bloody cheating space marine superpowers! :P

[WarlordEXE]

Nope, Khorne hates Slaanesh, and Nurgle hates Tzeentch, but that's utterly irrelevant this edition.

 

No mixing marks, at all, ever. Period.

 

Except for some hot chaos on chaos action involving a daemon prince with daemon of ()

[techsoldaten]

You can't catch SM in sweep due to ATSKNF

I thought that as well... and attributed it to changes in the rules in 6th edition. I didn't mention anything at the time, but this actually might be important.

 

My opponent was very gracious and explained that ATSKNF allows SM units to automatically regroup. After he failed his morale check, his unit fell back. His interpretation of the rules was that he still had to fall back and would have to pass a morale test to regroup on the following turn. Since he was caught in the sweeping advance, he removed what was left of his unit as a casualty.

 

I am not a SM player and don't really know the ATSKNF rule, what I understood about it in the past it has simply meant that SMs can choose whether or not to fail morale checks. I did notice that removing the remaining models in the unit left my bikers open to shooting from his predators and other units.

 

I know this is off topic, but did we do this right? I imagine this would actually be pretty important when using Chaos Bikers against Space Marines.

[allwaysoffside]

Thanks to additoinal Ideas. If and when I steal them I will be crediting the interweb in games.

 

 

BTW

I have looked in the codex, where does it say no mixing of marks? Its not to much of an issue as I have another 3 man MoN bike squad with meltas and power fist. Which means I can jump in with them to hide my IC. But all the same this is very much plan B and gives me some rejiggin to do.

[Iron_Within]

ATSKNF: if a unit fails a moral check in combat they still flee, and you have to roll I+D6 as normal, if they get away they roll 2D6, if they don't they remain locked in combat.

 

On the note of bikes, I think I will still be using them as harrying squad on the flanks, two small squads with melta or plasma rather than one large squad. Means they have the speed to redeploy at any moment and they are able to combine their charge. In this instance I think the MoN is better on them. If I was going straight cavalry charge type bikes I go for MoS as previously said with FnP banner.

[Caffeineated Chaos]

BTW

I have looked in the codex, where does it say no mixing of marks? Its not to much of an issue as I have another 3 man MoN bike squad with meltas and power fist. Which means I can jump in with them to hide my IC. But all the same this is very much plan B and gives me some rejiggin to do.

In the section describing how marks work, above the descriptions of what the individual marks actually do

[Emperors Immortals]

Thanks to additoinal Ideas. If and when I steal them I will be crediting the interweb in games.

 

 

BTW

I have looked in the codex, where does it say no mixing of marks? Its not to much of an issue as I have another 3 man MoN bike squad with meltas and power fist. Which means I can jump in with them to hide my IC. But all the same this is very much plan B and gives me some rejiggin to do.

 

 

Pg 30, under "Marks of Chaos" , no IC with a mark can join a unit with another mark.

 

 

ATSKNF means AFAIK they fight on with the no retreat rule, or its 6th ed equivalant. Also,

 

 

Q. When a unit with the And They Shall Know No Fear special rule

regroups do they get to immediately move up to 3" as well as moving as

normal that turn? (p51)

A. Yes.

[allwaysoffside]

God dam it, I'm going blind. I spent 15 mins looking for this today.

 

HUMM time to rethink.

[Marshal Goderic]

Just to clarify something that was slightly mis-stated earlier, you CAN mix daemons with differently marked CSM units. For example; I could put a slaaneshi sorcerer with a jump pack with an allied unit of Tzeentch flamers, due to RAW you can't mix models with different marks & daemons have no marks (other than possibly the c:CD daemon prince, cant recall that one) so it would work.

 

It is only between CSM units that you cannot mix marked models and between CD units where you cant mix heralds with different gods' units. its only a small point/difference but could be important to someone.

 

I'm now seeing a khorne lord on a bike leading screamers into battle, oh the delicious blasphemy...

[Excessus]

Just to clarify something that was slightly mis-stated earlier, you CAN mix daemons with differently marked CSM units. For example; I could put a slaaneshi sorcerer with a jump pack with an allied unit of Tzeentch flamers, due to RAW you can't mix models with different marks & daemons have no marks (other than possibly the c:CD daemon prince, cant recall that one) so it would work.

 

It is only between CSM units that you cannot mix marked models and between CD units where you cant mix heralds with different gods' units. its only a small point/difference but could be important to someone.

 

I'm now seeing a khorne lord on a bike leading screamers into battle, oh the delicious blasphemy...

This is from the daemon FAQ:

The second paragraph should be changed to: “Independent

characters in this list cannot join units of Daemons belonging

to a different Chaos God, units of Furies of Chaos, or any allied

units. Equally, allied independent characters may never join

units chosen from Codex: Chaos Daemons”.

[Warsmith Aznable]

It is only between CSM units that you cannot mix marked models and between CD units where you cant mix heralds with different gods' units. its only a small point/difference but could be important to someone.

 

The Daemons codex wording does support that ("Independent Characters in this list cannot join units of Daemons belonging to a different Chaos god or units of Furies."), but I would expect that to be changed via FAQ/Errata.

 

I'm now seeing a khorne lord on a bike leading screamers into battle, oh the delicious blasphemy...

 

I've been thinking about a Tzeentch lord on a Disc modeled using a 3rd party jetbike, with a unit of Screamers modeled as Chaos Marines wielding power swords and riding on the same style 3rd party jetbikes, keeping the movement options and cover saves uniform. Having marine jetbikes in a 40k list would be awesome.

 

Not to take it too off-topic, but the new WHFB Skullcrushers would make great counts-as Bloodcrushers for a Khornate CSM/Daemons army... EDIT: to serve as a retinue for a jugger lord, I mean.

 

EDIT#2: I don't know how I missed Excessus' post directly above mine...

[Excessus]

but I would expect that to be changed via FAQ/Errata.

Indeed it was...

[Warsmith Aznable]

but I would expect that to be changed via FAQ/Errata.

Indeed it was...

 

Drat. I hadn't seen the v1.2 Daemon FAQs.

 

Equally, allied Independent Characters may never join units chosen from Codex: Chaos Daemons.

 

That also puts the kibosh on Screamers or Bloodcrushers as CSM lord retinues, unfortunately. Someone at GW isn't thinking clearly, because that would have been very cool as an option, and maybe an answer for the 2W 2+ Elites that seem to be proliferating this round of codex releases.

[Lepaca]

This is from the daemon FAQ:

Equally, allied independent characters may never join

units chosen from Codex: Chaos Daemons”.

 

Oh, I never knew that.

That's sad in a way. :)