Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 is just me or do others think the codex asartes was a huge mistake Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265227-codex-asartes/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 By others do you mean the Primarchs or members of B&C? The answer will probably be yes to both, btw. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265227-codex-asartes/#findComment-3231934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 just the members every one knows which primarch sided with guilliman and which did not Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265227-codex-asartes/#findComment-3231938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirnov Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 You'll probably get the same divide of opinions. But the Codex - like it or not - works. There were countless renegades since the Heresy, so the Astartes are not as incorruptable as some other martyrblood crawing knights we know. And the main idea of Codex was implementing a failsafe against a second Heresy. If there was no Codex, there might have been no Imperium 'today'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265227-codex-asartes/#findComment-3231947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Well, personally, I don't think it was a huge mistake. It broke the Legions down into manageable chunks and coincided with the splitting of the Army into the Guard and the Navy. It was a division of power so that the scale of the Horus Heresy would not be seen again. And it worked. Whether or not the tactics and strategy covered by the Codex Astartes is sound is a matter of conjecture, although it is (or should be) widely regarded as a superlative example of Imperial battle doctrine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265227-codex-asartes/#findComment-3231950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 just the members every one knows which primarch sided with guilliman and which did not Remind me who were for and against please. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265227-codex-asartes/#findComment-3231954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 just the members every one knows which primarch sided with guilliman and which did not Remind me who were for and against please. If memory serves: Khan and Corax supported Guilliman Russ, Dorn and Vulkan opposed him Not sure about Johnson but I imagine he didn't support it either [EDIT] Just realised - Johnson wouldn't have been in a position to support it as he had disappeared by then! Doh! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265227-codex-asartes/#findComment-3231970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 they still shouldve done it after all the traitors were dead thats why imperium is corrupted cause of the high lords and inquisition you need legions to fight other legion the only i hate about the codex is the numbers thats chapters die so easy do you understand where im pointing out? russ, dorn, corax, were against it vulcan agreed and even though he was against it corax had no choice and guilliuman called them traitors which is stupid cause if any one shouldve had the power to do that would be dorn he deserved it and so thats how iron cage stated dorn went for a last stand with his legion sorry i forgot the kahn yeah he sided Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265227-codex-asartes/#findComment-3231979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirnov Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 there seems to be no legions on the chaos side anymore too. As far as I get the impression, all legions large enough shattered due to internal conflicts or because of lost primarch leadership, the only probable exception being the Black Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265227-codex-asartes/#findComment-3232002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 No Primarch was against "the Codex Astartes". Three Primarchs were against the decree to divide the Legions. The decree to divide the Legions is not "the Codex Astartes". It is but one, even if the most important, decree retained in the Codex Astartes. And the decrees are a very different aspect than the monumental guide on military doctrine also contained within the Codex Astartes. No Primarch was against suggested protocols for planetary assaults, or against protocols on company support logistics. And it is still up to the individual Chapter Master to abide by those suggestions. No Primarch was against the decree that new gene-seed should be grown at a much slower but much safer rate, and that new recruits should be selected, screened and trained much more thoroughly before implanting the gene-seed. What one Primarch had a big problem with (and where two Primarchs sort of agreed with him, even though it was apparently not important enough for them to be mentioned in any of their own background*) was to divide his own Legion and only maintain command over a single Chapter. And if his own Index Astartes article is to be believed, he relented of his own accord, after having received a vision of the Emperor. His own Chapter today is one of the proudest and strictest adherant to the Codex Astartes. *Dorn's resistance to the division of the Legions is only mentioned in the Black Templars background and the Imperial Fists and Successors Index Astartes. The background of the Space Wolves and the Salamanders never mentions any resistance. The Space Wolves simply preferred to follow a different organisational doctrine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265227-codex-asartes/#findComment-3232037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artein Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 you need legions to fight other legion But other Legions are broken and shattered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265227-codex-asartes/#findComment-3232049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 thanks legatus i dont own any codex so i wasnt sure all ive got is wiki so thanks for that knowledge the black legion word bearers iron warriors are still whole Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265227-codex-asartes/#findComment-3232057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I would not include Iron Warriors in that list. There is no hierarchy that I have heard of within the Legion and IIRC, the last I heard the Grand Companies are in open warfare with each other. There is no Legion organization in the Iron Warriors that I have ever heard of. Word Bearers are more organized, but only in the sense that there is an established hierarchy. The Hosts are still completely different and random from each other and unless acting on specific orders from either Kor Phaeron or the Council of Sicarus, they usually do whatever they want. On contrast, I have only ever heard of one of Black Legion warband operating outside of Abaddon's authority and that is the small band of Black Legionnaires from Honour Among Fiends in the Champions of the Space Marines anthology. Speaking of which, I'm still waiting for a sequel to that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265227-codex-asartes/#findComment-3232071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 what i meant was that they are still organised into company still they just dont take orders from someone higher then warsmith unlike the word bearers legion and is the next novel called treacheries of space marines? which is funny cause the first novel of that series had quite a few treacheries and are all daemon primarchs in hiding on their home world Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265227-codex-asartes/#findComment-3233700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colossus Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 The Iron Warriors are not cohesive beyond their Warsmith, I don't know if many would answer the call of Perturabo any more. The Black Legion is not really a Legion, it's composed of many thousands of renegades and traitors from different legions, although built around a core of former Sons of Horus. It's a cohesive force in that most answer to Abaddon, but there's animosity between commanders. The Word Bearers are a bit weird, they're said to be a whole legion, yet they're spread between Sicarus in the EoT and Ghalmek in the Maelstrom. I'd also wager that plenty would like to depose Kor Phareon and Erebus. I'd hypothesise that the Alpha Legion are still "whole" given their modus operandi remains similar to that of Pre-heresy. Although both Pre- and post-heresy they operated in cells. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265227-codex-asartes/#findComment-3233807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirnov Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 We don't really know about Alpha Legion. All in all they could have destroyed themselves. Like the proverbial hydra heads that eat each other. Considering the direction the last stories about Alpha are going, I can't really safely bet on any outcome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265227-codex-asartes/#findComment-3233819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarkassBC Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 We don't really know about Alpha Legion. All in all they could have destroyed themselves. Like the proverbial hydra heads that eat each other.Considering the direction the last stories about Alpha are going, I can't really safely bet on any outcome. Probably the Alpha Legion is until now the best example of an unbroken Chaos Legion... there is no description or recording of any clash between two factions inside it (after the Horus Heresy and Eskrador)... a good clue to a possible higher organisational level inside the Legion. we don't know where are their Primarchs (if both are still alive) because "secrecy is always our best weapon (and the best defence)". Many descriptions reported the actions of small warbands rising cults in different systems and sectors. They created one and after they moved to another system or disappear... they work in small cells but for working in that way there is the need for a secret higher structure. Coming back to the main topic of this thread the decision of the split of the Loyalist Legion was a necessary decision and not a good or bad one. The reason was the Horus Heresy and the objective for the Chapters was to create smaller units. A future traitor unit would have at maximum 1000 marines and not more the great numbers of the Horus heresy. Until now only the Black Templar and the Space Wolves are larger than this number. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265227-codex-asartes/#findComment-3233873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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