L30n1d4s Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I think Cult Marines are one of the defining elements of the CSM codex (have been, are, and should continue to be). With the recent codex, there seems to be some concerns that Cult Troops sometimes don't have a unique enough role compared to basic CSM with Marks and/or not strong enough for their points. What if each Cult Troop type could take a unique vehicle as a Dedicated Transport (in addition to the option to get a normal Rhino)? Here is what I was thinking: ---------------------- Khorne Bezerkers - Hellbeast APC BS3 AV 11 11 10 HP3 (Tank, Transport) Transport: 16 models (no Bulky) - only models with Mark of Khorne Special Rules: -Assault Vehicle Wargear: -Combi-bolter -Daemonic Possession -Destroyer Blades -Searchlight/Smoke --------- Noise Marines - Screaming Chariot APC BS4 AV 11 11 10 HP3 (Fast Vehicle, Tank, Open-Topped, Transport) Transport: 6 models (no Bulky) - only models with Mark of Slaanesh Special Rules: -Repair Wargear: -Blastmaster (can be replaced with a Doom Siren for free) -Searchlight/Smoke -Dirgecaster --------- Plague Marines - Hive Rhino APC BS4 AV 12 12 11 HP4 (Tank, Transport) Transport: 7 models - only models with Mark of Nurgle Special Rules: -Repair Wargear: -Combi-bolter -Searchlght/Smoke -Extra Armor --------- Thousand Sons - Portal of Change BS3 AV 11 11 11 HP 3 (Transport) Transport: 9 models (no Bulky) - only models with Mark of Tzeentch Special Rules: -Sorcerous Contraption - After all Scout moves are done at the beginning of the game, a Portal of Change and the models it is transporting can redeploy anywhere within your own Deployment Zone. Also, when it moves normally, it can move 12" and still disembark troops on the same turn. Portal of Change ignores all intervening terrain when moving, though if it ends in dangerous terrain, it still must take a dangerous terrain test. -Psychic Pilot/PML(1) - May roll on the Tzeentch Power table as a PML(1) Psyker Wargear: -Arcanus Refractornum - Gives Portal of Change a 5+ Invul Save. If any Glancing/Penetrating hits are saved by this Invul save, they are "reflected" to an enemy unit with 6" (like Lychguard Dispersion Shields) ---------------------- I think these would add character/flavor to CSM, would further differentiate Cult Troops from the rest, and would generally just improve the codex. Of course, these transports would have to be point-costed fairly, probably pretty expensively to be balanced, but hey, we are talking about the ELITE Cult units here, so maybe their equipment should be more capable, but more expensive points wise. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammonius Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 No Daemonic Possession for my expensive cult troops please. Otherwise, this is a cool idea that would yield a lot of conversion opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelanen Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I think Cult Marines are one of the defining elements of the CSM codex (have been, are, and should continue to be). With the recent codex, there seems to be some concerns that Cult Troops sometimes don't have a unique enough role compared to basic CSM with Marks and/or not strong enough for their points. Not anywhere I've seen! Thousand Sons are now playable for the first time in 6 years... Noise Marines are now very solid indeed (also from nigh unplayable before). Plague Marines are as good as ever, slightly better in fat, and are the core of the best lists in the codex. Berzerkers are better in themselves, they are just shafted by 6th's rules of assaulting out of Rhinos. Give them a DreadClaw and they are great. As to basic CSM, actually the competitive stance is almost never take them, and almost never mark them if you do. Outside of 1k lists, etc they have no place in a tournament list. Even then in 500pts Escalation games good players are taking scoring plagues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 slightly better in fat An accurate typo, hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazath Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Thousand Sons are now playable for the first time in 6 years... Berzerkers are better in themselves, they are just shafted by 6th's rules of assaulting out of Rhinos. Give them a DreadClaw and they are great. Actually, I think Berserkers are worse now, cause of +1 attack changed to rage. Also the loss of furious charge without icon. Dreadclaw is a bit expensive for what they do. Also, TS are now playable? Could you elaborate on that? I don't think they are any better than last edition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Also, TS are now playable? Could you elaborate on that? I don't think they are any better than last edition? Well, for one since your opponents will prefer non meched armies, lots of marines without vehicles to sit around in... Also, the 1k sons have an answer to hordes now(primaris power) that was one of the old weaknesses. Bolt helps against termies too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Its said they can now charge after rapid fire, which would make for a great infiltrate unit w tzeentch beam if true, plus burning brand of course ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Berzerkers still have furious charge standard, the icon just lets them reroll charge distance. Though they are "better" against marines now because of VotLW though they are worse against everything else. All we World Eaters really need though is an open topped Rhino. Seriously, why can't we just tear the top doors off of our rhinos and make them open topped? Seems like exactly the kind of "mechanical enhancement" World Eaters would make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelanen Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Actually, I think Berserkers are worse now, cause of +1 attack changed to rage. Also the loss of furious charge without icon. Dreadclaw is a bit expensive for what they do. Rage is better for Berzerkers because they will only ever be in combat one game turn and you often have to avoid shooting first to make sure it's not just one player turn. They haven't lost Furious Charge at alll! When people are using Raiders and storm Eagles for them (as they are!) a Dreadclaw is positively cheap! Given the way you can resuse it on the other side of the board for the late game, the Dreadclaw is actually costed about right. I'll admit I'd rather assault out of Rhinos, but Dreadclaw is definitely the next best option. Berzerkers still have furious charge standard, the icon just lets them reroll charge distance. Correct. Though they are "better" against marines now because of VotLW though they are worse against everything else. In the competitive world that's pretty much all that matters. You should expect 70-80% MEQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nephilim Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 If you're gonna limit everyone else's transports to the non-doubled sacred number, the berserker's transport capacity should be reduced to eight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonah Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I really like this idea! I'd make them all capacity 10 though to give the player more options. Gameplay > Fluff for me. --------- Hellbeast APC - I'd make this open-topped instead of just Assault so it's more fragile, fitting with Berzerker theme, so it's a slightly tougher Ork Trukk. Daemonic Charge: Units that are Tank Shocked by a Hellbeast APC suffer a -3 penalty to their leadship test. Hell's Fury: When a Hellbeast is destroyed, even if it is only wrecked, it always explodes a full 6". --------- Screaming Chariot APC - Also open-topped as it's a chariot and you want all of your noise marines shooting out of it. Warp Scream: Once per game the Chariot can use the Warp Scream ability which is a shooting attack with the following profile: Assault 4, S3, AP5, Blind, Concussive, Ignores Cover Immediately after using this ability roll a D6. On a roll of 1 the APC loses a hull point with no saves of any kind allowed. --------- Hive Rhino APC Plague Vehicle: At the start of each player's movement phase any enemy models within 6" of the Hive Rhino must take a toughness test. If they fail they lose a wound with no armour saves allowed. Virus Crater: If a Hive Rhino is destroyed the crater it leaves behind is toxic. Treat it as Dangerous Terrain unless they have the Mark of Nurgle. --------- Portal of Change Mirage: Once per game the APC can phase out of reality creating mirages of itself. This requires a Psychic test. Replace the APC with three separate tokens within 6" of where the original model was. One of these tokens should secretly be marked as being the actual APC while the others are blank. These tokens may be moved exactly as if they were normal vehicles. At any time in the game you may reveal which token is the real APC. You must do this if the vehicle shoots or if units disembark from it. If the enemy scores a hit or declares an assault on one of the tokens you must immediately reveal if it was the real APC or a mirage. For the purposes of Line of Sight you should temporarily place the real model over any token that is being shot at or assaulted. Each APC that is using the Mirage ability at the start of your movement phase must take a Psychic test in order to maintain the mirage - failure means the illusion is broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Actually, I think Berserkers are worse now, cause of +1 attack changed to rage. Also the loss of furious charge without icon. Dreadclaw is a bit expensive for what they do. Rage is better for Berzerkers because they will only ever be in combat one game turn and you often have to avoid shooting first to make sure it's not just one player turn. They haven't lost Furious Charge at alll! When people are using Raiders and storm Eagles for them (as they are!) a Dreadclaw is positively cheap! Given the way you can resuse it on the other side of the board for the late game, the Dreadclaw is actually costed about right. I'll admit I'd rather assault out of Rhinos, but Dreadclaw is definitely the next best option. I just wish the Dreadclaw was a dedicated transport like it was, before going to fast attack. I had a plan of fielding a World Eater army using Dreadclaws extensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammonius Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Actually, I think Berserkers are worse now, cause of +1 attack changed to rage. Also the loss of furious charge without icon. Dreadclaw is a bit expensive for what they do. Rage is better for Berzerkers because they will only ever be in combat one game turn and you often have to avoid shooting first to make sure it's not just one player turn. They haven't lost Furious Charge at alll! When people are using Raiders and storm Eagles for them (as they are!) a Dreadclaw is positively cheap! Given the way you can resuse it on the other side of the board for the late game, the Dreadclaw is actually costed about right. I'll admit I'd rather assault out of Rhinos, but Dreadclaw is definitely the next best option. I just wish the Dreadclaw was a dedicated transport like it was, before going to fast attack. I had a plan of fielding a World Eater army using Dreadclaws extensively. Absolutely! I had three dreadclaws in the 40k budget before Aeronautica came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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