WGPL w/ Storm Bolters and Assault Cannons

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

I don't believe I've had enough games in 6E yet to really be sure about whether precision is a big help or not, but personally it's come up big in some moments... so that leads me to two options I haven't typically fielded in the past... storm bolters and assault cannons on my wolf guard pack leaders.

 

Personally, if I were running just a Wolf Guard unit I wouldn't select Assault Cannons and I'd leave the Storm Bolters only if I were going with a large floot slogging pack... otherwise it'd be combis all around.

 

However, with precision rules potentially opening up some really clutch shooting how valuable have these tools become for high volume mid range shooting? Has anyone found success using the storm bolter and assault cannon on their pack leaders rather than the standard combi / cyclone that typically gets fielded. Does this configuration have merit or is precision simply overrated?

[skeletoro]

Do you mean using a storm bolter in one hand and an assault cannon in the other?

 

Can't do that, I'm afraid.

 

I don't really think the Precision Shot mechanic favours the use of storm bolters or assault cannons. Why would it? You might get more shots with an assault cannon (than a cyclone, for example) but the cyclone is AP3 and will give you a guaranteed kill on, for instance, the special weapon in your opponent's tactical squad.

 

If Rending came into effect after rolling a 6 to hit rather than to wound, then IMO, Assault Cannons absolutely would be the best option for WGPL. As it stands though, I'd aim for cyclone + storm bolter + power sword on as many long fang squads as possible, and combi-p/m + power axe on all the others.

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

Do you mean using a storm bolter in one hand and an assault cannon in the other?

 

Can't do that, I'm afraid.

 

I don't really think the Precision Shot mechanic favours the use of storm bolters or assault cannons. Why would it? You might get more shots with an assault cannon (than a cyclone, for example) but the cyclone is AP3 and will give you a guaranteed kill on, for instance, the special weapon in your opponent's tactical squad.

 

If Rending came into effect after rolling a 6 to hit rather than to wound, then IMO, Assault Cannons absolutely would be the best option for WGPL. As it stands though, I'd aim for cyclone + storm bolter + power sword on as many long fang squads as possible, and combi-p/m + power axe on all the others.

 

I don't at all mean using both SB and AC.

 

Arguing more for having WGPL with one of the following configurations:

 

TDA, Assault Cannon

TDA, Storm Bolter

PA, Storm Bolter

 

And when it comes to Cyclones vs Assault Cannons and precision, I really don't see precision + cyclone being something that comes up too often... you generally use the Cyclone for one of the following:

 

1) Anti-vehicle: precision has no effect

2) Anti-MC: precision has no effect

3) Anti-Infantry: very good chance you're firing this as a blast template... so precision would have no effect

 

I rarely see an instance where CML will utilize precision to great effect... most likely a rare and possibly even desperate maneuver.

 

The three roles I listed above are all great reasons to use the CML but I believe the precision rule has considerably boosted the AC's anti-infantry abilities since the volume of fire now allows you many more opportunities to focus where that firepower is going... on a WGPL the assault cannon can be directed in a very meaningful way... not so much on a plain WG or Dreadnought or Razorback or Land Speeder.

 

I also believe that with the increased use of plasma guns in 6E the assault cannon meshes better with the range band and role of the Grey Hunters than the Cyclone Missile Launcher does. CML could potentially be an excellent addition to a Long Fangs pack or on a full 10x Wolf Guard unit (especially in Logan Wing) but in a generic list with WGPL on Grey Hunters squads I think the AC has increased value in 6E.

 

On any WGPL that isn't utilizing an upgrade, I'd say the SB over the combi-weapon because of the increased rate of fire at 24". While the combi-weapon allows the potential of a one time meaningful shot, its also situational and lowers your ranged ROF. The WGPL benefits from ROF more than Grey Hunters do simply because of precision.

 

I also believe combi-weapons are more useful on PA than TDA because the TDA already has the cost of a storm bolter factored into it so there's approximately a 3 point tax on a TDA WG using combi-weapons.

[skeletoro]

Do you mean using a storm bolter in one hand and an assault cannon in the other?

 

Can't do that, I'm afraid.

 

I don't really think the Precision Shot mechanic favours the use of storm bolters or assault cannons. Why would it? You might get more shots with an assault cannon (than a cyclone, for example) but the cyclone is AP3 and will give you a guaranteed kill on, for instance, the special weapon in your opponent's tactical squad.

 

If Rending came into effect after rolling a 6 to hit rather than to wound, then IMO, Assault Cannons absolutely would be the best option for WGPL. As it stands though, I'd aim for cyclone + storm bolter + power sword on as many long fang squads as possible, and combi-p/m + power axe on all the others.

 

I don't at all mean using both SB and AC.

 

Arguing more for having WGPL with one of the following configurations:

 

TDA, Assault Cannon

TDA, Storm Bolter

PA, Storm Bolter

 

And when it comes to Cyclones vs Assault Cannons and precision, I really don't see precision + cyclone being something that comes up too often... you generally use the Cyclone for one of the following:

 

1) Anti-vehicle: precision has no effect

2) Anti-MC: precision has no effect

3) Anti-Infantry: very good chance you're firing this as a blast template... so precision would have no effect

 

I rarely see an instance where CML will utilize precision to great effect... most likely a rare and possibly even desperate maneuver.

 

The three roles I listed above are all great reasons to use the CML but I believe the precision rule has considerably boosted the AC's anti-infantry abilities since the volume of fire now allows you many more opportunities to focus where that firepower is going... on a WGPL the assault cannon can be directed in a very meaningful way... not so much on a plain WG or Dreadnought or Razorback or Land Speeder.

 

I also believe that with the increased use of plasma guns in 6E the assault cannon meshes better with the range band and role of the Grey Hunters than the Cyclone Missile Launcher does. CML could potentially be an excellent addition to a Long Fangs pack or on a full 10x Wolf Guard unit (especially in Logan Wing) but in a generic list with WGPL on Grey Hunters squads I think the AC has increased value in 6E.

 

On any WGPL that isn't utilizing an upgrade, I'd say the SB over the combi-weapon because of the increased rate of fire at 24". While the combi-weapon allows the potential of a one time meaningful shot, its also situational and lowers your ranged ROF. The WGPL benefits from ROF more than Grey Hunters do simply because of precision.

 

I also believe combi-weapons are more useful on PA than TDA because the TDA already has the cost of a storm bolter factored into it so there's approximately a 3 point tax on a TDA WG using combi-weapons.

 

I just don't think rate of fire is particularly important in this analysis.

 

Assuming you're shooting against a tactical squad with a special weapon buried in it:

 

You could fire 24 assault cannon shots and get 4 precision shots. But it's not the number of precision shots that matters. They still need to wound, and the target still gets a save. Over 6 rounds of firing an assault cannon, you will score 2/3 of a rend (insta-killing a special weapon), and 8/3 wounds, resulting in 8/9 unsaved wounds. That's 14/9 total unsaved wounds.

 

A cyclone will fire 12 shots, 2 of which will be precision shots. This will cause 15/9 wounds. In terms of precision shots, they're slightly better (against 3+ saves). A bit worse against 2+ due to rending, and worse still against 4+ (as the assCan is AP 4). This comparison is the same as it would be if precision shots were taken out of the equation.

 

If there are mixed armour saves in the unit, then it gets a bit more complicated, but I don't think it really changes things. AssCans will be better at sniping 2+ characters out of a 3+ squad. But the krak missiles have an edge at killing the rest of the unit. And anyway, neither is very good at all at killing 2+ units - you're pretty much wasting your time.

 

Maybe you'll spend a lot of time firing your missiles at vehicles. But if you'd rather shoot at vehicles than use precision shots against squads, and if the existence of precision shots still doesn't make assault cannons better for killing infantry than cyclones, then nothing has changed.

 

Perhaps one exception is when your opponent has 4+ saves. In this case, assault cannons are better than missile launchers against infantry. Precision shots makes both assault cannons and missile launchers better by an equivalent percentage (against infantry), so assault cannons are still better. But perhaps the increase is enough to make assault cannons so good against infantry that it would be better to take the assault cannons to shoot infantry than it would be to take the cyclones and shoot vehicles/monstrous creatures. I'm not sure this is a good enough reason, however, in light of the facts that A) it's so common to face marines and :P It's the 3+ characters that you ought to be worried about. Squishy characters are less of a big deal.

 

I would take the combi-plasma on my grey hunter packs rather than an assault cannon, thus freeing up my heavy weapons wolf guards to lead my long fangs. If you take assault cannons for your grey hunters packs, then you'll pretty much have to take a naked WGPL or none at all for your long fangs, meaning fewer characters taking advantage of the precision shot rule.

[Squark]

1) Anti-vehicle: precision has no effect

2) Anti-MC: precision has no effect

3) Anti-Infantry: very good chance you're firing this as a blast template... so precision would have no effect

 

2) Monstrous Creatures are still in units at times; So precision shots can pick off a wounded one that's moved behind another (or was shot at from a different angle)

3) Depends on the infantry. Against a guard blob cowering in terrain, yes, frag missiles will work better, since the targets are packed together, but MEQs should be more spread out, so the increased chance to wound and the lack of an armor save make Krak the superior choice against a smart opponent.

 

 

On a semi-related note, I'm not sure Long Fangs are the best place for CMLs. Long Fangs already output a lot of missiles in one direction (or two, but the squad leader is the first to go most of the time); It seems like it'd be better to be able to shoot at more targets, from different angles, with the CML in a Grey Hunters pack (most likely one sitting on your objective)

[skeletoro]

1) Anti-vehicle: precision has no effect

2) Anti-MC: precision has no effect

3) Anti-Infantry: very good chance you're firing this as a blast template... so precision would have no effect

 

2) Monstrous Creatures are still in units at times; So precision shots can pick off a wounded one that's moved behind another (or was shot at from a different angle)

3) Depends on the infantry. Against a guard blob cowering in terrain, yes, frag missiles will work better, since the targets are packed together, but MEQs should be more spread out, so the increased chance to wound and the lack of an armor save make Krak the superior choice against a smart opponent.

 

 

On a semi-related note, I'm not sure Long Fangs are the best place for CMLs. Long Fangs already output a lot of missiles in one direction (or two, but the squad leader is the first to go most of the time); It seems like it'd be better to be able to shoot at more targets, from different angles, with the CML in a Grey Hunters pack (most likely one sitting on your objective)

 

Interesting theory regarding the long fangs.

 

I don't have a lot of gameplay experience but from what I've found so far, as good as krak missiles are, it typically takes several to take out a single vehicle, unless it's super squishy. Adding a CML might result in overkill sometimes, though. At least once the squad leader has died.

 

If you put the CML in a grey hunters pack, though, you'll need the CML to shoot at the same target as the grey hunters. If they're camping an objective and not shooting anyway, it's not an issue. But as soon as they get into combat you may have to start making some suboptimal choices about your targets.

 

Also, if you want to make lots of precision shots, X combi plas + Y CMLs seems better than (X-Y) combi plas and Y CMLs. But to be honest, I'm not sure that Precisions shots are that big of a deal. They're nice, and they speak in favour of kitting our your WGPLs to some extent, but I'm not sure they should be a big priority in building an army.

 

It WOULD motivate me to make all my WG heavy weapons models into pack leaders rather than keeping them in their original pack, though.