GK ally detachment

[Galnarok]

First of all i have to say that i almost have zero experience with GK. I just got my hands on their codex and cant say i have read it in depth. From what i have read though, they seem very powerful, just for a couple points more than regular marines. So my question is, what troops and HQ should i take, considering i play BA and they are allies of convenience.

 

A strike squad in a Rhino with psy-cannons and psybolt ammunition seems REALLY good to me, but then i have to take an HQ which cant join the rest of my army, or use its powers on them. Any ideas on what to do? Basically what i want from the GK codex is that Strike Squad, which can do what my tactical cannot. The obvious problem is that i have to take an HQ which can only join that Strike Squad beneficially. Is it worth it making them a 9man and lose the second psycannon, just to have an HQ with them? Again as i said i dont know much about GK and i am sure they have a lot of other cool stuff.

 

Any other suggestions about a decent HQ+troop combination are welcome. Thanks in advance GK players.

[Gentlemanloser]

Basically what i want from the GK codex is that Strike Squad, which can do what my tactical cannot

 

What can the Strike Squad do for you your tacticals cannot?

[Galnarok]

What can the Strike Squad do for you your tacticals cannot?

 

You kidding me right?

 

10x Tactical + PG, LC + Rhino /w dozer blade - 245

10x Strike Squad + 2 psycannons, psy-ammunition + Rhino /w dozer blade - 285

 

1. Str5 storm bolters vs boltguns, aka they can fire 16 str5 shots at 24" range, instead of firing 16 str4 shots at 12" or less. Storm bolters are also assault2 which means they can shoot all their shots and still charge if needed.

2. 2x Psy-cannons vs PG and LC. 4 Str7 rending shots and they can charge too/8 Str7 rending shots VS 1 LC shot and 2 PG shots IF you are in rapid fire range and of course you cant assault.

3. Nemesis Force Swords VS nothing for CC. (Unless you pay for a special weapon for sarge)

4. Warp Quake

5. Brotherhood of Psykers

6. Psyk-out grenades, The Aegis, Preferred Enemy(Daemons) making them A LOT better against psykers and/or daemons

7. Rhinos can potentially ignore crew stunned and crew shaken.

 

Do i miss something? Will that cut it for 40pts more?

[Gentlemanloser]

Strikes do things *better*. Is that it?

 

Then why not swap out all your tac's for Strikes? Why not play Grey Knights instead of Bangles?

 

What do you want the Striks to do, that your Tac's cannot do themselves? Plasma Cannons are great for killing Termies, for instance. Something the no Grey Knight unit (not servitors) has access to.

 

As for an ally answer, just purchase a 25 point Inquisitor, and do whatever with him, if all you want is a unit of Strikes on the board...

[Galnarok]

They are better at shooting yes, but the can charge too if i need them to, something my tacts cannot. Its not that they are worse, they simply cant charge, at least at the same round they shoot. Their purpose is to stay somewhere and shoot. They can still lock them in CC and make them useless.

 

I dont have any other tacts. The only one i have, i am working on replacing it with a strike squad, so yes i am replacing all of them. If i wanted to play GK i would. I already have my JP marines, all i want is a scoring unit which will be better in CC and since strike squads are better both in CC and shooting i dont see why i cant just take one.

 

Good point about the Inquisitor. Question. If i upgrade him to Mastery lvl 1 Psyker, can i swap Hammerhard with one of the codex powers, or roll for disciplines?

[Inquisitor Fox]

You can roll for divination, pyromancy and telekinesis I believe. Divination is really the one everyone seems to go for. Doing this also allows you a henchmen warband which is a lot of fun with neat wacky stuff and could be a bit of flavor and a chance to paint different things. Also note, a unit of Grey Knight Terminators is a troop choice if you want to really throw people off.

 

"What do you mean your Blood Angels have scoring termies!?"

[Gentlemanloser]

Their purpose is to stay somewhere and shoot.

 

Are you going to use another unit to stay somewhere and shoot, or do you want to get rid of imobile units altogether?

 

"What do you mean your Blood Angels have scoring termies!?"

 

Spend the points on a GKGM and make your FnP Hammernators score. :D

[spartan249]

Rhinos are unnecessary. Save yourself the points, as strike squads operate better out of a rhino anyway.

 

I'd either go with an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor with terminator armor, psycannon, and a mastery level or with Coteaz and use henchmen instead. Trust me, henchmen are far deadlier then a strike squad for the role you are envisioning.

[Gentlemanloser]

Rhinos are unnecessary. Save yourself the points, as strike squads operate better out of a rhino anyway.

 

Or spend the 10 points more and get a better S6 Razorback. :P

[spartan249]

Again with the failback... if you really want to, I won't stop you, but just be wary and hide it first turn lest you yield first blood.

[Gentlemanloser]

/shrug

 

First blood is awefully easy to lose.

 

For thier cost, a Twin Linked S6, 3 shot 36" range unit that's all but immune to small arms fire is an amazing investment.

 

Our S6 Heavy Bolter 'backs are one of the stand out units from the codex. That they can also be used a mobile cover for Dreads is an added bonus. :tu:

[Galnarok]

Ok thanks for the insight guys. I know termies are troops for GK, with 2 attacks and all the stuff they get, yummy, BUT i dont really wanna play termies, i ll keep it in mind though for future lists, thanks.

 

About the razorbacks. Generally i am not a fan of Razorbacks, and if i were i would definitely take 3-4 of them from the BA codex, as they are fast and i can also get a 35pts discount.

 

I havent even considered the Coteaz/Henchmen combo to be honest (it was like, whats that? a full page with non power armor guys, thanks bye) but from what i ve seen in your Army review subforum, a lot of people use them so i ll give them a careful read and come back to you with more questions!

 

 

Cheers

[Reclusiarch Darius]

First of all i have to say that i almost have zero experience with GK. I just got my hands on their codex and cant say i have read it in depth. From what i have read though, they seem very powerful, just for a couple points more than regular marines. So my question is, what troops and HQ should i take, considering i play BA and they are allies of convenience.

 

Emphasis on 'seem'. Remember, we're still just Marines when it comes to dying, but we pay a premium for our extra abilities and wargear.

 

A strike squad in a Rhino with psy-cannons and psybolt ammunition seems REALLY good to me, but then i have to take an HQ which cant join the rest of my army, or use its powers on them. Any ideas on what to do? Basically what i want from the GK codex is that Strike Squad, which can do what my tactical cannot. The obvious problem is that i have to take an HQ which can only join that Strike Squad beneficially. Is it worth it making them a 9man and lose the second psycannon, just to have an HQ with them? Again as i said i dont know much about GK and i am sure they have a lot of other cool stuff.

 

Strikes are...ok. Your setup is quite expensive and not really that desirable.

 

 

Being BA, your core is going to be Assault Marines and other fast elements (Baal Preds, Librarian Dreadnoughts, Stormhammers in a Raven etc). I'd therefore be looking to take longer-ranged shooty support from the GK codex. You should have melee sorted out, and be fast enough to close without problems (2D6 charge range has only made you more of a threat, although the nerf to FC is annoying).

 

With that in mind, I'd take the following;

 

- Coteaz

- 3 x Servitors w/plasma cannon, 2 x Jokaero, Chimera w/multi-laser+heavy bolter

 

Coteaz has two Divination powers (one of which will be re-rolls to hit), he gives you re-rolls to 'Seize' (and forces the enemy to re-roll theirs), and his 'IBEU' ability is great for denying Outflankers or Deepstrikers trying to get close on the drop.

If you want, you could always add another unit of Henchmen with the same loadout, the only issue is Mind-Lock shuts them down on a 4+. Hence, at 2k, you take a cheap Divination Inquisitor (as the second Ally detachment) to prevent Mind-Lock and give them the re-rolls powers.

 

If you are willing to sacrifice a big chunk of points, there is an alternative;

 

- Grandmaster w/hammer, rad grenades

- Justicar w/halberd, Terminator w/Banner, 2 x Terminators w/hammer+psycannon, 2 x Terminators w/hammers, 4 x Terminators w/halberds

 

Grandmaster makes your own Stormhammers scoring (or Sternguard, or Devastators, or Dreadnoughts), and as a mid-field scoring unit the Terminators are a nightmare to deal with.

[Gentlemanloser]

And before it's bought up again, the AoC restrictions are;

 

treat <snip> as enemy units that cannot be charged, shot, targetted with psychic powers or have templates or blast markers placed over them

 

The Grand Strategy is non of the above. And will, just like Litanies, require a FAQ to deny use on units outside of Codex Grey Knights.

 

As most abilities have already been FAQed, it seems, unlikely that TGS (and Cybork bodies) was left unrestricted by accident. It might be an oversight, it might be FAQed on a whim.

 

Until it is FAQed, we just cannot guess the intention behind it.

[spartan249]

I'd use ablative wounds over a transport, as shooting henchmen barely find reason to move, but whatever. I usually use a techmarine to get 3+ cover, so it would cost more anyway.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I'd use ablative wounds over a transport, as shooting henchmen barely find reason to move, but whatever. I usually use a techmarine to get 3+ cover, so it would cost more anyway.

 

The Chimera is there to be a bunker, not to move. I reckon considering the AV12 makes you immune to small arms (something Acolyte spam wouldn't do), and it nets you two anti-infantry guns with the same range, you are getting a pretty good deal. Sure, it dies after three glances, or a single good pen, but that's all vehicles.

[jeffersonian000]

I find it depressing that when someone asks about playing Grey Knight units, the forum's common response is "Go with an Inquisitor and a Henchmen squad". Whatever happened to Grey Knights being the core of the Grey Knights codex? Should this forum change is name to "Inquisiton + Those Other Guys"?

 

In a BA list with GK allies, I'd go with some GKT or Strikes with a Librarian or GM, and place them in reserve for a turn 2 deep strike near a homing beacon. Its fluffy, has crunch, and is most importantly GREY KNIGHTS doing what GREY KNIGHTS do bests. If you got the points, Draigo and a squad of Paladins popping out on the battlefield in support of your BA's is a great use of the ally rules.

 

SJ

[Gentlemanloser]

Problem is, it's just MOAR marines, adding to your list chock full of marines.

 

Sure, you could argue that GK marines are *better*, in whch case you need to re-evaluate why you want to add GKs, and why you're not running GK as your primary army.

 

Henchmen bring unique properties to marine armies, like ultra cheap ultra shooty units, and therefore synergies well. Giving you access to something you otherwise didn't have. Which if we boil it down, is the *whole* point of allies in the first place.

 

I *really* do hope and desire the B&C changes its stance on ally discussions. /sigh

 

Use of allies is *imperietive* in 6th, (from either a tactical or fluff POV) and we are doing ourselves a disservice by gagging discussion.

 

Allying IG is superior to Coteaz and Henchman. Henchman are IG-lite, yet it's the only option we are allowed to discuss here.

[spartan249]

Henchmen can also provide close combat coverage, something IG can never do.

 

From a fluff perspective, PAGK/TAGK allies are cool, whatever. From a purely utilitarian perspective, Henchmen are where it's at given their point efficient firepower/assault power. The actual GKs themselves are good, but using them as allies takes a lot away from the parent list given the high point cost associated with GKs. If you really like the GKs themselves, using them as the main force makes much more sense, as then you can leave the stuff you don't like from the parent list behind and just bring the meat.

[BrotherWasted]

I find it depressing that when someone asks about playing Grey Knight units, the forum's common response is "Go with an Inquisitor and a Henchmen squad". Whatever happened to Grey Knights being the core of the Grey Knights codex? Should this forum change is name to "Inquisiton + Those Other Guys"?

 

In a BA list with GK allies, I'd go with some GKT or Strikes with a Librarian or GM, and place them in reserve for a turn 2 deep strike near a homing beacon. Its fluffy, has crunch, and is most importantly GREY KNIGHTS doing what GREY KNIGHTS do bests. If you got the points, Draigo and a squad of Paladins popping out on the battlefield in support of your BA's is a great use of the ally rules.

 

SJ

 

Yes, the forum name should be changed. As should the name of the GK Codex. It should be renamed "Codex: Ordo Malleus".

 

Grey Knights are only the core of the Codex as a book, not of a well-oiled C:GK list.

 

When you have any form of Marines as your primary army, Grey Knights do not plug the holes as well as Henchmen can.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Well.. the thought really is this. As allies, you can afford an Inquisitor, a Retinue, possibly a transport AND a unit of Termies and/or Strike Squad for the same price (or significantly cheaper) as a Grey Knight Marine HQ and a unit of Termies/Strike Squad depending on how you do it.

 

It's worse off in Kill Points, but could help you plug more holes in your force. Again, this depends on what you buy, but an Inquisitor, Retinue and a Troops choice is actually a pretty economical buy if you don't go too crazy.

[Gentlemanloser]

Henchmen can also provide close combat coverage, something IG can never do.

 

Very good point!

 

Don't discount the DCA, probably the best CC unit in the entire game! :P

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I find it depressing that when someone asks about playing Grey Knight units, the forum's common response is "Go with an Inquisitor and a Henchmen squad". Whatever happened to Grey Knights being the core of the Grey Knights codex? Should this forum change is name to "Inquisiton + Those Other Guys"?

 

Because Marines want Allies that are cheaper and plug holes in their army. They won't want Marines 2.0, which are more expensive and do largely the same jobs. Henchmen and IG offer that, pure Knights don't.

 

In a BA list with GK allies, I'd go with some GKT or Strikes with a Librarian or GM, and place them in reserve for a turn 2 deep strike near a homing beacon. Its fluffy, has crunch, and is most importantly GREY KNIGHTS doing what GREY KNIGHTS do bests. If you got the points, Draigo and a squad of Paladins popping out on the battlefield in support of your BA's is a great use of the ally rules.

 

BA have Assault Marine Troops with FNP/FC bubble attachments, and they already have the best assault unit in the game (Stormhammers). They also have a better Raven to deliver them. Why would they ever want our less survivable GKT's, our expensive HQ's, or Paladins?

BA want units that can shoot well (as their melee focus means not a lot of shooting goes on in their lists), and are cheap, to mitigate the investment in Assault Marine/Terminator/fast AV13 core their army revolves around.

 

I *really* do hope and desire the B&C changes its stance on ally discussions. /sigh

 

Use of allies is *imperietive* in 6th, (from either a tactical or fluff POV) and we are doing ourselves a disservice by gagging discussion.

 

Agreed. It's dumb and counter-productive.

 

Allying IG is superior to Coteaz and Henchman. Henchman are IG-lite, yet it's the only option we are allowed to discuss here.

 

Yes and no. If you want shooty cheap infantry, Henchmen are actually better than Veterans. It's the Vendettas, battle tanks and Blob Squad O Doom where IG are money. Chimera spam is dead in this edition.

 

Henchmen can also provide close combat coverage, something IG can never do.

 

It's a glass fist though. You delete something, then get boltered to death due to meh saves (3++ on half the squad, 5++ on the other half). Stormhammers and even normal Terminators are more likely to stick around after weathering the subsequent enemy Shooting phase. But yeah, if you want a scalpel to drop behind enemy lines, melee warbands aren't a bad choice. For general purpose melee though, Stormhammers are still numero uno. The only things they fail against are Nurgle Obliterators and Nob Bikers, which is where ironically Knights are better (specific ID > double Toughness ID).

[Gentlemanloser]

Yes and no. If you want shooty cheap infantry, Henchmen are actually better than Veterans. It's the Vendettas, battle tanks and Blob Squad O Doom where IG are money. Chimera spam is dead in this edition.

 

Well IG can get 4x Plasma/Melta, plus ludicrous Autocannon spamm.

 

Psyker Battle Squads are also interesting, as is Marbo. And let's not forget the Astropath. :(

 

But we can't talk about that here.

 

Sadly.

 

(I'd also disagree that Chim spam is dead, you just need to change tactcis to realise they are truly expendible)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Well IG can get 4x Plasma/Melta, plus ludicrous Autocannon spamm.

 

Only on Command squads, Veterans are capped at three just like Henchmen. I agree they're good but they can't be spammed like warbands can under Coteaz.