Tiger9gamer Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Alright, just moved in from Dakka to see if people would listen to my ideas, and sure enough found a whole forum about this! glorious! (not that there is anything wrong with DakkaDakka) Okay, back on topic. today's Topic is the very obscure Imperial Fist successors, The Iron Knights! although there is a small paragraph on page 27 in the Vanilla marines codex, It doesn't offer that much. "The Iron Knights are a crusading Chapter. They are one of the twelve Chapters that send a champion to the centennial Feast of Blades, and are the only Chapter to have won on two consecutive occasions." That, and the Tower of Blood shortstory in Hammer and Bolter stories Volume 1 offers a little more insite to them, which I think we can expand. One of the predominant features of the short story was the commander's reluctance to use anything that might danger Civilians. Although it's not a lot, it fits in with the traditional code of chivalry a knight has in "protect the weak". Your thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Also a tidbit about them in "Phalnax", the last book in the Soul Drinkers book. If you want, I'll PM you anything IK relevant from the story. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3234324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 That would be awsome :P much apreciated! some other stuff about them is that they are also siege specialists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3234342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 There's a bit about them in the Black Templars Codex, IIRC. And I like the idea, as it differentiates them from the other Templar Knight Chapters :P Ludovic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3234346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 Also for them, there is some extra fluff about them going off on a Penintent crusade to try and find some of their Traitors, the Iron Brethren (i think that's there name) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3234553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 Wait a bloody moment.... was this switched to the "home-brewed" chapter section?! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3234556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund Himself Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 The Liber Astartes is for developing chapter IAs. I think a mod saw that you seem to be going down that path, gathering info on the Iron Knights and then making your own IA on them. If you're just gathering info or others' opinions on the chapter, the Index Astartes subforum is where it belongs( if this is the case, just PM Bannus or Race Bannon and they should be able to move it back in there :) ). And welcome to the B&C too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3234630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 oh... I feel stupid now :P sorry... had a long night then. so, for developing the chapter more... what would be a good 'secret' side of them? you know, maybe they like chocolate too much or a secret they would have to cover up... maybe they get really angry when they fail a mission? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3234786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Maybe, in the past, a champion of theirs won the feast of blades using... less than fair means. The chapter knows this, to their shame, but no-one else does. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3234808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 that would be a big secret, but i dont know... i think that could undermine some of the chapter's combat doctrines. I'll keep it in mind though. how about this idea... a champion tried to win the feast of blades for a third year in a row, but failed in the first round. the scorn he recieved shamed him, and he vowed to become the perfect swordsman. I think that could lead to a few companys leaveing the chapter and start a hunt, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3234846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I think that could lead to a few companys leaveing the chapter and start a hunt, right? A hunt for what, though? :tu: Also, a few companies being directly affected by the chapter champion's failure is a bit of a narrative over reaction, I think. His own company, maybe, but not other companies. They have their own issues to deal with, probably. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3234848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 woopsie! ment a 'hunt for perfection through chaos' X-X and yea, i thought of that too... hmmm maybe he brought at least two companies with him to chaos? or only one? also, which chaos deity would be best? i was thinking either khorn or slanesh Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3234984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messor Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 woopsie! ment a 'hunt for perfection through chaos' X-X and yea, i thought of that too... hmmm maybe he brought at least two companies with him to chaos? or only one? also, which chaos deity would be best? i was thinking either khorn or slanesh I would say one company, and have them grow from there, and if the cause was something related to the tournament, I'd say Khorne would be their man...god. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3234995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 woopsie! ment a 'hunt for perfection through chaos' X-X and yea, i thought of that too... hmmm maybe he brought at least two companies with him to chaos? or only one? also, which chaos deity would be best? i was thinking either khorn or slanesh I would say one company, and have them grow from there, and if the cause was something related to the tournament, I'd say Khorne would be their man...god. Agreed on both counts. Say they go on a quest of honour, or something, to erase the shame of the loss and become corrupted along the way by Khorne - but don't make him frothing madman. There's plenty of those around. So long as the champion takes heads and lets blood in the name of his God, he's a card carrying member of Blood God's kill club. Then, with him as the leader/champion of the company/warband, other renegades come to their banner over time. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3234999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 oh, okay! sounds pretty good then. think I might make it a project to write a short bio sbout them or something. any other ideas of conflict within the chapter? maybe they are a little crazy like the black templars, and go into a rage at times? for example, a fellow marine chapter ends up killing some civilians as 'collateral damage,' and then the commander starts to attack him in a fit of anger? or is that too mary sue-ish? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3235221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDF Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Not sure if you know this, but the Iron Knights began a self-imposed penitent crusade a number of decades before the 13th Black Crusade. (source: WD 286) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3235353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 any other ideas of conflict within the chapter? maybe they are a little crazy like the black templars, and go into a rage at times? for example, a fellow marine chapter ends up killing some civilians as 'collateral damage,' and then the commander starts to attack him in a fit of anger? or is that too mary sue-ish? Perhaps the individual in question is cold and calculating, able to weigh all other factors against victory and doing what he see's as needed to triumph. He's good, but he'd be more suited to a chapter that cares not for collateral, such as the Marines Malevolent. Where others of his chapter would censure such practices, naturally, he performs them. He may be the champion of the chapter but he's also talked about behind his back. Maybe he'd know this, maybe not. The marines he serves with don't have to be any different from their brothers in the chapter at large, with the exception that they sympathise with the champion and think his treatment by the chapter at large is somewhat unfair. They're his brothers - they'd back him up to the hilt if necessary (which wouldn't bode well if he, for some inexplicable reason, fell foul of the Chaos Gods...). Thoughts? Not sure if you know this, but the Iron Knights began a self-imposed penitent crusade a number of decades before the 13th Black Crusade. (source: WD 286) That's okay - this could take place looong before then. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3235388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 any other ideas of conflict within the chapter? maybe they are a little crazy like the black templars, and go into a rage at times? for example, a fellow marine chapter ends up killing some civilians as 'collateral damage,' and then the commander starts to attack him in a fit of anger? or is that too mary sue-ish? Perhaps the individual in question is cold and calculating, able to weigh all other factors against victory and doing what he see's as needed to triumph. He's good, but he'd be more suited to a chapter that cares not for collateral, such as the Marines Malevolent. Where others of his chapter would censure such practices, naturally, he performs them. He may be the champion of the chapter but he's also talked about behind his back. Maybe he'd know this, maybe not. The marines he serves with don't have to be any different from their brothers in the chapter at large, with the exception that they sympathise with the champion and think his treatment by the chapter at large is somewhat unfair. They're his brothers - they'd back him up to the hilt if necessary (which wouldn't bode well if he, for some inexplicable reason, fell foul of the Chaos Gods...). Thoughts? Not sure if you know this, but the Iron Knights began a self-imposed penitent crusade a number of decades before the 13th Black Crusade. (source: WD 286) That's okay - this could take place looong before then. :) oh wow. thats an awesome idea! thanks for that :D and @the black crusade thing, i think I can change it around somemore now.... onto their doctrine. i heard there're siege specialists and things, so it makes sense they have some close combat ablity for in trench fighting... now to represent it on the table top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3235449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 alright, just got IA10 for my fluffy siege vanguard, so planning on useing that soon. the thing looks perfect, and csme up with an awsome champion I could use! but, anyways, need to decide on something. how gun-ho should they be for protecting innocents? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3235965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I think they should be a little blasé about the innocent, considering my previous elaboration. Maybe they'd try to avoid collateral somewhat, but the champion and his confidants become less and less concerned and simply swat aside any intervening citizenry or cut loose with blast weaponry when others might attempt a more direct means to spare Imperial humanity. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3236021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 I think they should be a little blasé about the innocent, considering my previous elaboration. Maybe they'd try to avoid collateral somewhat, but the champion and his confidants become less and less concerned and simply swat aside any intervening citizenry or cut loose with blast weaponry when others might attempt a more direct means to spare Imperial humanity. :down: I know I might seem fickle, but that seems to calous about civilians X-X Maybe the opposite could be good? they will probably wreck the city they are trying to defend due to collateral, but only if the Civilians are safe behind the lines. besides, they could always rebuild the cities :P And maybe they do this even when it would be detrimental to the battle. like trying not to blow up a hospital or refusing to use certain weapons in case of survivors. Kinda got this off from the Tower of blood story, where Captain Morning star commands his squad to take their helmets off when rescuing hostages. I think they said so they wouldn't take unnecessary risks. Also they didn't use heavy weapons like melta guns, rocket launchers or frag grenades until the very end where the civilians are safe. Think this could make some interesting stories. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3236248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 Anyone? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3238943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLiege Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 These are just some questions that you could think about that might give the chapter some more characters: What are their beliefs? How do the chapter see the Emperor of mankind? Do they see him as a god? a spirit of some kind? or something completely different? How does the chapter view their Primarch? do they hate him? like him for something? As you can tell from these question. I'm not good at asking questions, but I think you get the point I'm making. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3238962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 Ugh, I don't know what I should say for that X-X Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3239077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Ugh, I don't know what I should say for that X-X Well, here's an easy way to put it - do you want these guys to be traditional in their outlook, or not? If so, then they'll venerate the Emperor as an exceptional human being, more or less. If not then the questions posed by DarkLiege are quite useful - how do they visualise/conceptualise the master of mankind? The same goes for Dorn. How do they view him? Traditionally or not? Is he simply their gene-father or is he a saint/angel/beloved ancestor/whatever? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265413-iron-knights-ideas/#findComment-3239186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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