Arming dreadnaughts

[Daevyll]

DCCW and assault cannon. It's the standard armament my (old metal) Dread came with, and it is still a good setup. Plus, it fits the 'classic' imagery of the dreadnought.

 

It can shoot up most things, and those things it cannot shoot it can walk up to and smash. I like versatility in my units rather than specialisation.

[Brom MKIV]

Thanks to this thread I've started running a asscan/dccw dread again in several recent games and its been great so far. My list is Mech hybrid with a strong firebase so the dread protects the firebase from deep strikers and hunter units. As a lower priority target its actually survived every game and threatens nearly anything. Very pleased to dust him off again.

[DerekLee688]

I plan on experimenting with foot units supported by vehicles. Making the center of the army CML TDA, tac squads, and a AC/ML Dread for fire support. Playing C:SM my dreads don't pursue CQC glory past their mortal days. I'd rather have the 48"ML than the few DCCW hits I'd get if I ever get base 2 base with anything.

[tvih]

I use dreadnoughts a reasonable amount. I really like their fluff, looks and all that, but in 6th (I only started in July so I never played 5th) they just seem so weak. Everything kills them by just looking at them. Put them in 4+ cover and they still manage to always die in turn 1. I've NEVER had a dread earn back its points so far, and I've used one or two dreads in at least... 8 or 9 matches (I've played a total of ~24 or something so far). The closest I got was destroying a Venom and killing a Fire Warrior with an AC+DCCW+HF (my favorite build) Venerable Dread with Tank Hunters. So 145 points to kill a ~70-point vehicle and a cheap troop model. And that's the best performance so far. "Nice!"

 

I've also noticed that everyone gets massively kill-horny when they see a dread on the table. I suppose it's good in that other units are spared the attention, but it still gets very old very fast having your favorite unit(s) die in turn 1 or turn 2 at the latest. It's just hard to justify fielding them instead of a tri-las Predator that's the same price. Or if you want an effective long-range Dread it's 165 points for Venerable, Tank Hunters, TLLC & ML. Well, probably 170 to get extra armor thrown in, too. And considering that despite all the upgrades it'll still die early... bah. After all, even two Typhoons cost less and put out more dakka.

 

Once I get two drop pods next month, I could try killing some vehicles by dropping in the dreads, for which I suppose multi-meltas would be required... but I fear that it'll just be another expensive suicide. Well, especially since I'd technically need 3 pods to be able to ensure both dreads dropping in at the same time so that there's a better chance of actually accomplishing something with them.

[RipherChost]

I arm my dread with an ass-can and flamer in a pod with two grey hunter packs in pods. On the first turn I land the dreadnaught with a grey hunter pack behind a troop transport. The grey hunters then light up said transport with melta and hope for bolter glances while the dread fires at the contents. The dread then gets to back up asaults with the grey hunters for as long as he can hold out against my opponents retaliation.

[Giga]

I use dreadnoughts a reasonable amount. I really like their fluff, looks and all that, but in 6th (I only started in July so I never played 5th) they just seem so weak. Everything kills them by just looking at them. Put them in 4+ cover and they still manage to always die in turn 1. I've NEVER had a dread earn back its points so far, and I've used one or two dreads in at least... 8 or 9 matches (I've played a total of ~24 or something so far). The closest I got was destroying a Venom and killing a Fire Warrior with an AC+DCCW+HF (my favorite build) Venerable Dread with Tank Hunters. So 145 points to kill a ~70-point vehicle and a cheap troop model. And that's the best performance so far. "Nice!"

 

I've also noticed that everyone gets massively kill-horny when they see a dread on the table. I suppose it's good in that other units are spared the attention, but it still gets very old very fast having your favorite unit(s) die in turn 1 or turn 2 at the latest. It's just hard to justify fielding them instead of a tri-las Predator that's the same price. Or if you want an effective long-range Dread it's 165 points for Venerable, Tank Hunters, TLLC & ML. Well, probably 170 to get extra armor thrown in, too. And considering that despite all the upgrades it'll still die early... bah. After all, even two Typhoons cost less and put out more dakka.

 

Once I get two drop pods next month, I could try killing some vehicles by dropping in the dreads, for which I suppose multi-meltas would be required... but I fear that it'll just be another expensive suicide. Well, especially since I'd technically need 3 pods to be able to ensure both dreads dropping in at the same time so that there's a better chance of actually accomplishing something with them.

Try running 2-3 barebones dreadnoughts, the ones with multimeltas, storm bolter, DCCW, and nothing else. 315 pts of AV12 walkers that an opponent MUST deal with, especially now that you get 2d6 charge range with dreads and you hit moving vehicles on 3+.

 

Also, 2-3 riflemen dreadnoughts (double twin-linked autocannon dreadnoughts) can sit in cover in the backfield, can move 6" and shoot everything at full BS, can pivot in shooting phase, can stay in cover whole game, and cost only 20 pts more than a barebones dread. They're death to transports and can reliably put wounds on pretty much any infantry in the game. Also, they got a pretty good chance of harming flyers. Again, having 2-3 of them gives you a lot of redundancy and does a lot for your armor target saturation.

 

Sadly, venerable, ironclad, and almost very single weapon+dccw dread version are as you have described them - mostly useless, especially if you only have one in your list.

[knife&fork]

I love my dreads :blink: But I guess having them available in elites, troops and heavy by default makes it easier to take them.

 

I have 3 furiosos, 2 death company dreads and 3 heavy support dreads. The heavy support dreads however rarely sees any play because of how great fast predators are. They eliminate the need for things like rifleman dreads or other long range support load outs while Furiosos do the aggressive drop in much better thanks to the extra firepower and AV13.

 

I've been toying with the idea of taking a MotF allied HQ for some ironclad goodness, there's a world of difference between AV12 and AV13 when it comes to survivability and 13/13/10 is even better.

 

My current list includes 4 or 5 dreads, saturation is definitely a part of what makes them work;

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=259318

 

Maybe C:SM could have some success spamming ironclads? You can get up 6 of them with a MotF, right?

[Cornelias]

Been using both a MM/DCW and Ironclad both podding in with my scout heavy force, it's strangely satisfying to be upon your enemy with most of your force 1st turn!

[UltraTacSgt]

I'm going to resurrect this old thread by asking this.

 

Does anyone use the Plasma Cannon on the dread? I have been thinking that a PC/TLAC dread could do some pretty good damage and still costs the same as a normal Rifleman dread.

 

In a list with 2x Typhoons, advancing transports, a separate Rifleman, and at least one Vinidicator, it wouldn't be the highest priority target and could follow up a bit behind my main advance and put two twin linked s7 ap4 hits and a st7 ap2 template on whatever I needed it to.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

There are two problems with plasma cannons here. The first is that, as a template weapon, it cannot target Flyers. I mention this specifically because lots of current Dreadnought builds see use as anti-aircraft platforms (here's looking at you, Rifleman). Second, and more importantly, Gets Hot! now effects vehicles, and may result in the loss of a hull point. It's a bigger issue for the dakkafiends since they can literally blow themselves up in a single shooting phase, but Dreadnoughts at AV12 do actually die fairly quick in most situations, so that extra HP from a Gets Hot roll can be key.

 

Plus, Tactical Squads can take plasma cannons at the bargain-basement price of 5 points. That's where I go for mine, and that's my recommendation.

[maturin]

MM + DCCW/HF in a pod, as the only pod in my army. I haven't run him as much in 6th as in 5th, but that's mostly because I've been trying out various builds. Last summer I used Contemptors - Kheres x2 and Heavy Conversion Beamer + DCCW/HF, and Bray'arth. Love those guys, but I seriously need to get a Lucius pod for Bray'arth.

[tvih]

Recently now that I've tried playing with C:SM, I've fielded my two Dreads in the Rifleman configuration in both of the two matches. It indeed has worked out a lot better than with my Templar Dreads (whether AC+DCCW+HF or TLLC+ML), as they've actually killed something and I've only had one fall in battle. And that mainly because of a friggin' Vendetta that flanked my 3+ cover ruin.

 

As I try to stay WYSIWYG the lack of Dread autocannon bits annoys me (in addition to the Venerable kit not having the missile launcher, damn you GW!). Unless I want to got the LEGO route, I suppose I'll have to pony up for the Forgeworld ones. But £32 just to get 4 autocannons.... sigh. Besides, I wouldn't mind running 3 Dreads now that I could proxy the Megaforce's Ironclad as a regular Dread as well, so it's even worse!

[tvih]

Oh, and I'm a bit sad with no change in the Dread missile launcher in the new DA Codex. In general I don't know what GW was thinking with it. Basically you replace a Power Fist + Storm Bolter with a Missile Launcher, and yet have to pay for the "upgrade" (I believe this was the case in the new codex as well). Good luck buying PF+SB for the price of a ML for an infantry model. They really should've taken the opportunity to upgrade the Dread ML to Heavy 2 with a cost of perhaps 5 more points compared to the autocannon, so that it's still more expensive than the slightly weaker but twin-linked autocannon.

[Giga]

There are two problems with plasma cannons here. The first is that, as a template weapon, it cannot target Flyers. I mention this specifically because lots of current Dreadnought builds see use as anti-aircraft platforms (here's looking at you, Rifleman). Second, and more importantly, Gets Hot! now effects vehicles, and may result in the loss of a hull point. It's a bigger issue for the dakkafiends since they can literally blow themselves up in a single shooting phase, but Dreadnoughts at AV12 do actually die fairly quick in most situations, so that extra HP from a Gets Hot roll can be key.

 

Plus, Tactical Squads can take plasma cannons at the bargain-basement price of 5 points. That's where I go for mine, and that's my recommendation.

This.

 

They really should've taken the opportunity to upgrade the Dread ML to Heavy 2 with a cost of perhaps 5 more points compared to the autocannon, so that it's still more expensive than the slightly weaker but twin-linked autocannon.

This, too.

[DarkGuard]

Does no one else think that Rifleman have dropped in power due to a general drop in transports. Most of the tanks I face are AV12 and more, which are the tanks Rifleman are very poor against.

 

Maybe I just had a bad few games, but right now MLs and lascannons seem the way forward. I'd quite like to try a TL-LC/DCCW Dread a bit for all purpose action and tank sniping, if only it wasn't 145pts....

[Giga]

Does no one else think that Rifleman have dropped in power due to a general drop in transports. Most of the tanks I face are AV12 and more, which are the tanks Rifleman are very poor against.

Riflemen are an overall solid unit. They can shoot on the move, they're versatile (can harm anything except AV14, not to mention lock down squads in combat) they're cheap, they got a decent chance of hurting AV12/13 (with 3-4 STR7 hits on average, you're quite likely to get some 5s and 6s on your penetration roles), and they look awesome.

 

While there are fewer AV10-11 transports around nowadays, they've been made easier to kill, so riflemen will actually be better at transport-hunting than before. Granted, you probably no longer want to max out on them. One rifleman + a quadgun should complement each other really well and fulfill your autocannon needs, leaving you with plenty points for other stuff.

[tvih]

My plan is to always use at least 1-2 Rifleman Dreads in my C:SM lists. Just so I get to use a Dread, any Dread. I mentioned possibly running 3 before, but that doesn't really work unless I play a double-FOC game or use a Master of the Forge, since Sternguard is also something I use every time and as such that only leaves 2 elite slots for Dreads.

 

While Rifleman works decently, I must admit that I'm not such a huge fan of autocannons rules-wise. The strength is... decent, I suppose, though obviously AV13 presents serious problems already, with even 12 not being much fun. But also if you happen to be playing against MEQ, shooting at infantry is kinda puny, what with only AP4 and all (good luck trying to duke it out with a 4xAC Havoc Squad, for example). But there just doesn't seem to be much other ways to use a Dread, as close combat ones blow up before they get to do anything, and something like TLLC+ML feels costly compared to some other unit options. Heck, my BT Venerable Dread, while good and cheap compared to a SM TLLC+ML one costs 165 points and only gets those two shots per turn. Ugh. Even with Tank Hunters included in the cost it's still a lot to pay for a somewhat fragile unit with two shots. Again, the ML being Heavy 2 would help, but no such luck.

[Giga]

Heh, same here. I love dreads. I'm always looking for ways to include them in my lists, but sadly the vanilla dex doesn't give me any real options except rifleman.

 

I'm really hoping we'll have stormravens in the next vanilla dex. Ironclad dreads are sure to get a close combat buff (I wouldn't be surprised if they receive something insane like BA dread blood claws, or jumppack option lol), so with a stormraven transporting/some buff to reserves them they should be a really valid option to have, as even if the stormraven is shot down on the turn it arrives, the dread is going to be close enough to assault on the following turn.

 

While havocs with 4 autocannons are cool, you need to keep in mind CSM have to sacrifice a heavy support slot to get them. And CSM have some awesome heavy support choices, so it's not nearly as simple as it may seem (for example, I'd take 2-3 oblits over an autocannon havoc squad any day). I'm mentioning this because it showcases one big strength of the vanilla dex: we have multiple cheap efficient shooty units in almost every slot, whereas many other armies do not.

[DarkGuard]

Does no one else think that Rifleman have dropped in power due to a general drop in transports. Most of the tanks I face are AV12 and more, which are the tanks Rifleman are very poor against.

Riflemen are an overall solid unit. They can shoot on the move, they're versatile (can harm anything except AV14, not to mention lock down squads in combat) they're cheap, they got a decent chance of hurting AV12/13 (with 3-4 STR7 hits on average, you're quite likely to get some 5s and 6s on your penetration roles), and they look awesome.

 

That's what I think when I roll the dice. Sadly it never happens. :(

[PaganLinuxGeek]

I've 4 metal assault cannon arms for dreadnoughts. 2 right arms and 2 left. I'm not seeing any option in the current codex to replace dccw with an assault cannon. Is this an old option since removed from the codex since the model was originally produced, or is the dual assault cannon option still available?

[Bannus]

Dual assault cannons are not an option - dual AUTOCANNONS are. ;)

[dswanick]

I've 4 metal assault cannon arms for dreadnoughts. 2 right arms and 2 left. I'm not seeing any option in the current codex to replace dccw with an assault cannon. Is this an old option since removed from the codex since the model was originally produced, or is the dual assault cannon option still available?

I've never seen a GW-legit left arm Assault Cannon for a Dreadnought (been playing since 1994).

[PaganLinuxGeek]

I inherited metal 4 assault cannon arms. 2 right and 2 left. Guess I'm cutting them to make legal armaments...

[dswanick]

I inherited metal 4 assault cannon arms. 2 right and 2 left. Guess I'm cutting them to make legal armaments...

I'd love to know where they came from. If they're GW-legit, then they've got to be rarities.

[UltraTacSgt]

Can anyone explain how exactly CC works for a dread with two ranged weapons? They have str 6 and 2 attacks as per their stat line but what is the AP on those attacks.

 

Also, does everyone think about assault cannon combo's. AC/DCCW seems to be solid and popular, but what about AC/ML or AC/TLAC?