Giga Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I probably said this already, but I'll say it again: in the next vanilla dex, I really really really hope Ironclads get a boost and we get our very own stormravens. :] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 For those of you who say av12 dreads are not worth the investment, im honestly curious, how many games of 6th have your dreads seen the field? I would be interested in the number of times, the results and the lists they were included in. Now, obviously if we are strictly speaking only of "tournament winning lists" then dreads might not make the cut. But from that same standpoint neither does 80% of most codices when evaluated against cron air spam, flamers/screamers, typhus and tallyman nonsense and so on, but I doubt everyone here plays only in tournament environments. If im wrong then I have nothing to contribute since I dont attend high end tournaments nor do I really have any desire to. However outside of tournament winning lists dreads have their place. In a vacuum its relatively easy to find more efficient gun or cc platforms. However, within the limitations of the FOC, especially HS, dreadnoughts hold some appeal since unless you play BAs then HS slots are tightly competed for. Its also worth noting though that a certain Bjorn list with 3 dreads (iirc) won multiple tourneys in 5th. My impression of that list is that the creator included the extra dreads to take pressure off Bjorn and his other tanks while increasing his armour saturation and MSU alpha strike potential, all valid and effective reasons to include them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaganLinuxGeek Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Hmmnn looks like I need to get some ironclad arms ordered from ebay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Bleh, not much luck with my TLLC+ML Venerable BT Dread in the tournament. Only got to play two instead of three matches due to an uneven number of players, and the first game was against Daemons and thus a poor indicator of anything other than Daemon OPness. Against Orks I won 9-0 (I had three objectives and he had none, 5-objective game) with him not being a very good player and only having three Dakkajets (two of which with 1 hull point left) and 4 nobs remaining at the end of turn 4 when we had to stop, but the Dread didn't really do much - two glances on a Battlewagon and a few boyz killed. My Vindicator, by comparison, with a single blast caused 7 wounds which killed 3 nobs and Ghazghkull because he failed all the 5++ saves (and he only took LoS! on 3 attacks for some reason). Additionally it killed 7-8 boyz, for a total of about ~350 points killed with two shots! Then it got whacked by the nobs, but points well spent. Anyway. I suppose this match with the Dread is a good indicator of my "dissillusionment" with "heavy" armor currently. Like the Dread, my Predators with their limited number of shots and poor anti-Horde rarely if ever seem to earn their points back. The Vindicator by its nature is hit and miss, but when it hits... oh boy, it really does hit. I'm starting to regret buying a second Predator instead of a second Vindicator. And in C:SM lists there's the Thunderfire the two have to contend with as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Ive used them against Necrons. Mainly because i wanted to use models i'd painted rather than because i thought they'd do well. They didn't do well, haha. Although the Necron player was scared of them reaching his line, allowing other units to go slightly more unscathed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraTacSgt Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Ok, so I am going to run a list using two dreads and two typhoons as a firebase supporting two mounted tac squads and two vindicators on the advance. HQ is a TDA/SS/Force Axe Librarian w/ Sternguard, and 5 sniper scouts are homebase campers if that info is useful. One dread will definitely be a rifleman (I've loved the look of this model from the first time I laid eyes on it) and the other Dread is a bit up in the air. I am planning on running it TL-LC/ML and planting it in cover to shoot away. But, I have considered TL-LC and DCCW/HF to let it be my firebase babysitter. Honestly, I would run a AC/LC Predator if I owned the model, but for now the dread is what I have. This dread will be planted near the Rifleman Dread in my deployment zone in a good firing lane, behind the best cover I can give it. Is one missile shot per turn worth more than the HF/DCCW's firebase protecting abilities over the course of a game against most enemies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 This dread will be planted near the Rifleman Dread in my deployment zone in a good firing lane, behind the best cover I can give it. Is one missile shot per turn worth more than the HF/DCCW's firebase protecting abilities over the course of a game against most enemies? The missile definitely not but another TLAC otoh would be IMO. The question is what does your army need that you cant cover elsewhere. Im a fan of dreads but I tend to look at them as HS slots 4+. Right now with a free HS choice id squeeze in some missile/LC devs there. Then, if your tacs dont have PCs give the guard dread a PC/dccw. Personally Im totally adopting dswanick's loadout of TLAC/PC (I dub thee hades pattern)...cant believe I hadnt reconsidered the options for 6th. Props to him. 4 s7 VS. 3 s7 with ability to kill TEQ and possible +1 to the damage chart is a fine trade off. This pattern is simply deadlier more often in this age of infantry, with the obvious exception of flyers. Ive already remodelled my riflemen dreads and they look sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Ok, so I am going to run a list using two dreads and two typhoons as a firebase supporting two mounted tac squads and two vindicators on the advance. HQ is a TDA/SS/Force Axe Librarian w/ Sternguard, and 5 sniper scouts are homebase campers if that info is useful. One dread will definitely be a rifleman (I've loved the look of this model from the first time I laid eyes on it) and the other Dread is a bit up in the air. I am planning on running it TL-LC/ML and planting it in cover to shoot away. But, I have considered TL-LC and DCCW/HF to let it be my firebase babysitter. Honestly, I would run a AC/LC Predator if I owned the model, but for now the dread is what I have. This dread will be planted near the Rifleman Dread in my deployment zone in a good firing lane, behind the best cover I can give it. Is one missile shot per turn worth more than the HF/DCCW's firebase protecting abilities over the course of a game against most enemies? Just get another tl-AC dread. Or even better, an aegis defense line with a quad gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraTacSgt Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Giga - Do you really think the ADL w/ quad gun is better than having another AV12 hull toting a TL-LC? I don't have much that I would park behind the ADL, though I suppose my LC tactical combat squad could man the gun and benefit from the 4+. Brom - I don't know if 3ML Devs for 135 or 4ML devs for 150 would have better utility than a similar costed Dread. Seems like the ability to move and still shoot gives the dread the edge. I do like the idea of a PC/TLAC dread as well as the TLLC/TLAC dread. The LC variant more-so as I want this unit to mainly shoot long ranged anti-AV shots, with some tarpit/babysitting abilities as a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Giga - Do you really think the ADL w/ quad gun is better than having another AV12 hull toting a TL-LC? I don't have much that I would park behind the ADL, though I suppose my LC tactical combat squad could man the gun and benefit from the 4+. It's skyfire + interceptor TL-AC + defensive lines which are insanely good when used properly. AND it's much cheaper overall and doesn't take up an elites slot. Ofc it's better than a TL-LC dread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I have 5 Dreadnoughts right now. A standard Black Reach MM Dread that I put in a drop pod for tank melting. A Furioso Dread with Frag Cannon and Heavy Flamer who goes in a pod A Furioso Librarian who follows my assault marines with the wings of sanguinius A Death Company Dreadnought (talons and Magna Grapple) to fall out of my Storm Raven A Standard Dread with auto cannon / TL Las I think they are all fairly useful depending on what you are going for. The Lib charges things my assault marines shouldnt. The Melta / Fragrioso drop together. The idea is one pops a transport, the other templates the guys inside to death. The Death Company Dread sees the least use, but he is pretty funny when he charges large mobs of orks. The Auto Cannon / TL-Las Dread usually hangs out in a corner or behind a defense line and attempts to pop transports or fliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Navaer Solaq Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 this thread been helpful. Convinced me a single Dread in a vanilla dex codex is not worth the points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 It can be worth it, in saturation. The thing about saturation is people think that means taking lots of one thing, but it's actually about taking mutiple choices that require the same methods to neutralise i.e. Drop pods, Predators, Rhinos and Dreads are all going to need anti tank weapons to destroy. You've provided saturation yet might only have 1 Dread. Of course I get far more use out of 2 or 3 Dreads rather than 1 but the principle is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenfeld Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I was fielding a single venerable dread with PC and DCCW, it let me down consistently, rarely surviving past turn one to do anything, and even when it did it could never land a shot. But recently I got a Stormraven (Hurray we can use those now) and busted him down to standard dread w/ Assault Cannon + Heavy Flamer. He flew in on black wings, as it were, coming into the game latched to the Raven. He didn't hit dirt until turn three, but when he did it was on the flank of a 30 man, entrenched guard squad. His heavy flamer chewed through 10, his cannon killed three more. The following turn he was unscatched by lasguns and a single krak grenade, and proceeded to toast another 14 and assault cannon 2 more, assault to step on the lone survivor. He then got shot in the back by Eldar rangers who rolled a bunch of 6's and caused him to detonate, killing four more guard from the next unit over. SO, in two turns, for 125 points, he destroyed 34 guardsmen. I have no doubt that if he was on the table from the start he wouldn't have lasted, but coming in with the Raven gave me the chance to put him where he could really lay down some punishment and it was glorious. It reminded me of that scene from the DoW2 cinematic where the Dreadnought busts through a wall and breaks the spine of one banshee and torches another... yes.. "I have come to destroy you.." has never rang more true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraTacSgt Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 I've been fielding two Dreads in my latest games and they have been bringing the pain. One dread is run as a Rifleman, the other is LC/ML. They have both survived most games, though they have suffered a few weapon destroyed, and occasionally one gets taken out. Between the two of them I am pretty consistently getting solid contributions from the entombed battle brothers, netting me numerous first blood kills. The auto cannons of the Rifleman have been predictably useful in putting good shots on just about any target you can want to shoot and the LC/ML dread has proven more useful than I originally thought. The higher strength shots of the ML and LC have accounted for a number of key instant death kills as well, most memorably the time my LC/ML Dread put an instant death wound on a GK terminator HQ. One of the biggest benefits I've found with running the Dreads instead of something more traditional, like a Predator, is the ability to move and shoot, and the ability to place the Dreads in terrain. In a number of games I have put them up in towers and other ruins to give them amazing shooting positions and a 4+ cover save to boot. I feel like it is definitely worth mentioning that target saturation plays a big part in the utility of my Dreads as I don't think they would be as effective without it. I run a number of other threats between Vindicators, Terminators, Speeders, and Transports; so my Dreads are often not a glaringly obvious target. This has allowed them to stay under the radar and keep shooting all game. Dreads, especially shooting dreads, can definitely earn their keep in a list. On a side note, I've had pretty decent luck w/ my Ironclad as well. Drop podding him in on a unit that isn't fully equipped to handle that kind of threat (anything that doesn't have melta) and watching him happily krump his way through a squad or two while the rest of the enemy forces scatter to get away from him makes me smile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muctar Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Seems as though you have a list which compliments the use of your dreads. The ability to put dreads in terrain and to move and shoot, as you said, are good reasons to take them in a list. Plus if you are looking for armour saturation in a list dreads are the only elite choice marines can take with an AV. So they can help with that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excubitor Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 If I take dreads I take them with a Heavy Flamer and either a Multimelta or Assault Cannon. I'm actually taking the MM ones without Vulkan on occasion because unlike most targets, which they're lucky if they hit once a game even with Vulkan, they've yet to miss a flyer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaganLinuxGeek Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Dreads in towers? No restrictions for putting dreads on towers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Dreads in towers? No restrictions for putting dreads on towers? Any restrictions in placing a Thunderfire Cannon in a tower? Nope. None that I can see. Moving after placement might be a problem though. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaganLinuxGeek Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Yeah. That first step might be a bit treacherous... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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