grandmaster lisander Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Ok so i had a battle against chaos today and got pritty much wiped out, my old list isnt working any more and i need some advise as to do what to start working on for this new 6th ed. stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265524-fighting-chaos/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamented Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Whats your list? Jump Libby with fear of dark to kick his havoc or reg csm off the board, plasma honour or Stern s. To kill power armor. Storm ravens rule all, Maybe go second to shoot down his dragon and intangle his anti air. Death co with some pw. Naked sarg to accept challenges while you ic'S maul the squads. Couple thoughts for ya Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265524-fighting-chaos/#findComment-3235202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelsWithBaals Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Would be helpful to know what your list is and what you have at your disposal. I also played chaos with allied demons today in a league game, that player made a lot of mistakes right from deployment so it was a down hill battle, doesn't hurt that the dice gods were blessing me for the first few turns as well. Before anyone gets all heresy, burn the heretic, I believe the dice gods are a subconscious manifestation of the emperor's will resonating throughout the warp, hence the blessing came from the emperor and his intentions for me to cleanse the real heretics. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265524-fighting-chaos/#findComment-3235236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitadelArmyGuy Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 The more information, the better. Not so much your list, we can tweak that. Mostly what was the CSM player using that you were having so much trouble with? I have a lot of ideas and theoryhammer about how to fight CSM. To be honest they scare me less than many other codicies out there. Mostly because we can kill many of them through Sweeping Advance, and the ones we can't (fearless) are prohibitively expensive-- meaning for once BA isn't outnumbered! yay! lol Plus soon I will be able to provide Nemesis-advice. There was an Estate Sale where I picked up 146 Chaos Marines (not a typo), 21 Chaos Bikers, 27 Havocs (mixed heavy weapons), 30 IG, a Vindicator, Basilisk and 9 Chaos Terminators for $80 USD. The sellers didn't know what they were, literally they thought $80 was pretty great and they were happy to make that sale. So..... apparently I play Chaos now. I've tried out my CSM in one game so far, a 2000pt list versus Orks. I'll tell you right now, Morale morale morale was something that was constantly on my mind. The Fearless Lord can only make his joined unit fearless, and I was running without any Icons so I was constantly worried about falling back or sweeping advance. I will tell you this-- the Bikers can easily go toe-to-toe with Blood Angel Assault Marines. Even naked with no Marks, the toughness 5 with just as many attacks combined with greater mobility makes them a gigantic threat. If Marked, they're even worse. Mephiston is going to run rampant though them. MM Attackbikes for charge-screens and shooting Obliterators will be useful as well. Stormravens as usual are a great idea too. So luckily the items that make excellent additions to competitive BA are all excellent against CSM. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265524-fighting-chaos/#findComment-3235245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 The only thing you really need to fear is mace prince or juggeraxe, the forced challenge rule can seriously cut back a squads dmg output and RAS should easily win on a charge. BA should try to take stern tbh its a hell of a unit now, also rhino tac can help win through redeployed rapidfire supporting our RAS . Post his list or just troublesome units for more help :ermm: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265524-fighting-chaos/#findComment-3235284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I really would not like to meet slaanesh-bikers... though shooty armies fear them even more I guess. One of the most ridiculous things I've seen recently is lots of footslogging chaos with 2 lvl3 sorcerers. Both roll for invisibility, you have a good chance to get it at least once. Then go for 2x prescience. Attach them to a squad in the middle, cast invisibility and join 2 other squads. You now have 3 squads with 2+cover in behind terrain and attackers strike with WS1. Next turn its "only" 2 squads, then 3 again and so on. Everything rerolls to hit as well and whatever other nasties you get. It's again not that good against us because we are an attack-based army anyway, but imagine guard or shooty GK meeting this, they're just gonna cry. @CAG :P you lucky bastard, I want something like that happen to me as well ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265524-fighting-chaos/#findComment-3235345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitadelArmyGuy Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I really would not like to meet slaanesh-bikers... though shooty armies fear them even more I guess. One of the most ridiculous things I've seen recently is lots of footslogging chaos with 2 lvl3 sorcerers. Both roll for invisibility, you have a good chance to get it at least once. Then go for 2x prescience. Attach them to a squad in the middle, cast invisibility and join 2 other squads. You now have 3 squads with 2+cover in behind terrain and attackers strike with WS1. Next turn its "only" 2 squads, then 3 again and so on. Everything rerolls to hit as well and whatever other nasties you get. It's again not that good against us because we are an attack-based army anyway, but imagine guard or shooty GK meeting this, they're just gonna cry. @CAG :P you lucky bastard, I want something like that happen to me as well :) Fortunately Chaos cannot take Divination, so no Prescience for them! Denied. CSM can only take Biomancy, Pyromancy, and Telepathy. The Telepathy Lvl3 Sorcerors is a legitimate concern however. Telepathy is the best table for CSM because one power gives Fearless (important for them), and of course Invisibility and Hallucinate require no introduction. So half the table is benefit for CSM, and both Sorcs will have half that table. Invisible Fearless Feel-No-Pain Slaanesh Bikers is practically cheating. Cannot guarantee the combo--- but the odds are good. And yea, I'm nerd-gasming pretty hard at being in the right place at the right time. See below: only $80-- Pretty dusty and some re-assembling required, I think they sat in an attic for awhile at some point. But for that price, I'm pretty sure I'll be fine :blink: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265524-fighting-chaos/#findComment-3235631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Jammy so and so :). Curiosity compels me to ask what's in that forge world bag I can see taunting me from the top of the picture. I've never managed to pick up anything that good in my 40k wheelings and dealings, best I managed was a mostly boxed Bretonnian army off of eBay for £60... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265524-fighting-chaos/#findComment-3236072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitadelArmyGuy Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Jammy so and so :) . Curiosity compels me to ask what's in that forge world bag I can see taunting me from the top of the picture. I've never managed to pick up anything that good in my 40k wheelings and dealings, best I managed was a mostly boxed Bretonnian army off of eBay for £60...Haha thanks. The Forgeworld baggies are two un-opened Thunderhawks for Aeronatica Imperialis. To keep the thread useful (it was just too awesome to pass on the opportunity to share the joy), one particular fear in the new CSM codex is the Flying Mace Prince. A lot of people are fearful of the Flying Mace Daemon Prince. For those who don't know, this guy is Initiative 8 (beats Meph), WS9 (beats Meph) and has 5+D6 attacks at AP2 (beats Meph), Fleshbane (beats Meph) and also Hatred:Marines. Models who survive take toughness test or suffer another wound with no saves of any kind. And at the end of Combat Phase, all models within 3" take toughness tests or suffer a wound with no saves of any kind. Also, if it is Nurgle then it is Shrouded so it will have a 3+ Jink save when it Dives (FMC version of Evade). Slaanesh version is Fleet and Rending, but you'll see the Nurgle-version the most since it Hates:Tzeentch Daemons so it helps versus enemy Screamers/Flamers. It does not have the Champion of Chaos rule, so it does NOT have to issue Challenges. It must accept any though, being a single-model Unit. But now for the downsides: 265pts, No Assault Grenades, only T5 (Nurgle is Shrouded not T6), 4 Wounds, not Eternal Warrior and it cannot Deep Strike so it's vulnerable to Flyers or Turn1 shooting before it Swoops forward. All versions only have 3+/5++ (Tzeentch version does not get 4++). Nurgle version is Slow and Purposeful so you disengage melee 'for free' if you survive. Also, only Str6 so while Fleshbane hurts, it doesn't remove Feel No Pain. To fight any version but Nurgle, a Stormraven will do just fine. Timing will be important though, and based on two situations. If the DP deploys on the table, the CSM player wants to go First since then he may get to lock in melee before the Raven shows. If the DP reserves, then he wants to go Second since then the DP will swoop-on 24" from his table edge (remember these guys can't Deep Strike) and will hope to avoid the Raven via maneuver blind-spot. To fight any version at all, THSS Terminators are up to the task-- especially with Corbulo. Make sure Corbulo refuses if the DP Challenges, then he can still use 2+ FnP to soak damage while letting the Terms clean him up. You'll probably lose Corbulo (8-12 attacks hitting on 3+ w/rerolls and wound on 2+ will force quite a few saves...) but you'll come out on top in the end. Depending on your luck with 3++, you may pull it off without Corbulo too. Also, you can always feed the DP a combat-squad or cheap screen. You have to be SO careful you don't lock in melee though, since you want it on the ground where you can shoot it with the Raven et al in your next turn. Don't challenge it with a Sergeant, not even Nurgle version. Versus Nurgle, he'll eat the Sarge then you'll take Morale at Ld7. If you fail, then you'll get to fallback for free but if you pass then bad times. And with Initiative 8, you won't escape a sweeping advance from a non-Nurgle version. Better just to let him kill you off entirely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265524-fighting-chaos/#findComment-3236413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 No Assault Grenades BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA :) That's harsh. He sounds like a pimped-up winged tyrant to me. Looks very dangerous, can wreck a lot of face when he charges, but dies very easily to concentrated fire once you have him in a good spot. Just make sure to finish him early in the game, when you still have enough stuff on the table. Or use the raven of course, that guy might fall to the first round of shooting of the raven alone if he's just slightly unlucky on his invul.save. Didn't know that chaos can't take divination, but that's good for sure *phew*. Still, Hallucination is one of the worst powers to play against as well, and those bikers you mentioned.. *brrr* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265524-fighting-chaos/#findComment-3236967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rich54 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I played 2 games againts CSM this week end and one think I can tell you is ; transport! With heldrake around you just cannot let troops walking or jumping around, 36" moves and 12" flamer S6 AP3 just kills marines... The bikers are not that good I killed about 4-5 with less than 10 assault marines and a priest (2 squad of 4-5) a sgt had an axe the other a sword and SS He played a lord on juggernaut and manage to kill him with the same marines I just talked about( his bikers assaulted me just after I killed his lord) I must say thanks to my SS sgt who survived the first round of combat soaking up all the wounds with his SS in a challemge while doing 2 wounds...;) To beat them I say be mobile and shoot important target at the begenning of the game and you must include 2 ravens and and aegis line to deal with FMC and flyers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265524-fighting-chaos/#findComment-3237083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Depends which Chaos units you are playing against. Which gave you problems. And what is your list? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265524-fighting-chaos/#findComment-3237132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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