assault squad

[Warmammer]

Assaults squads what are they good at?

what to uses to complement them for back up?

load out?

[King Willy]

Depends on the size, they can be good as harrasment units, flankers, counterchargers or charge blockers.

 

They suffer from the marine syndrome of being only half decent at anything, but they can tip a tac squads fight in your favour or to give a bulkier guard for your captains and chaplains.

 

They perform better with a chaplain, though it's a personal choice what goes with them, and they do need something to back them up, either a close combat IC or another squad.

 

Flamers a better for them if they gonna be hitting hordes and infantry, use the kraks and meltabombs or fists to pop tanks.

 

They don't have much use charging up the board in 6th but they are an excellent unit to hold your gunline together if facing orks or nids, against other marines they just don't have the punch sadly.

 

I like to use a small squad to assist my command squad in counter charging or pre-emptive charges then let my Tacs shred the survivors.

 

5 with flamer and sarge with Claw and Storm Shield go with my captain with relic blade and jump pack to put the hurt on fast movers who have been weakened by the Tacs shooting, Sarge takes the challenges and cap shreds the footies, or alternatively use them as bait the idea of one or three kill points is just to juicy for some.

Works at times but other times it's just not enough punch or staying power, stock jump pack chaplain makes them a target to fear but I use the unit as bait more often so fearless is bad.

[Hellrender]

You should never use them as a dedicated assault unit, even if they look like it. They are there to protect and support.

Hold them behind your lines, for when you get charged, then they counter charge. Support other squads's charges with these guys, or let these attack small non assault units, like long fangs, devastators, and other such heavy weapon mini's. They have it's uses, but normally you get more bang for your buck in other slots of the FoC, especially for the amount of points these guys cost.

[Shaggy12009]

I usually play blood angels so I've gotten real familiar with them. Bottom line is they do everything a basic marine does except carry a bolter... Which means not much. The best use I've seen for them is as a melta gun delivery system. Slag a tank and you've usually paid for yourself instantly. The only time I do anything else with them is to finish off a squad. This can be suisidal if the squad has any cool abilities like power weapons etc. but when they have to die this turn...

[FlamingDeth]

I think that people are underrating them now that they've got hammer of wrath going for them. That's four attacks on the charge now, one of which is at I10. I still wouldn't run them without an IC with jump pack and Blood Angels obviously get the begetter end of the deal, being scoring and all.

[Shaggy12009]

I think that people are underrating them now that they've got hammer of wrath going for them. That's four attacks on the charge now, one of which is at I10. I still wouldn't run them without an IC with jump pack and Blood Angels obviously get the begetter end of the deal, being scoring and all.

 

I haven't seen it make enough of a difference to mention. Ya, it's a help but in my opinion it takes a D unit to a C+ at best. That's only if you use a large squad of them too.

[Gideon999]

I rolled a squad of 10 with two flamers and a fist on the sarge for a while in 5th. Against horde orks they had a good chance of messing up a squad of boyz, and if you got the charge the fight would be pretty even (Assuming you got good use from your flamers and the other guys didnt pull his casualties from the front to deny the charge).

 

I havent used them much since, and have found overall that speeders were more useful to me for the points. They aren't bad, but they arent great either. As others above have said, they arent going to be good taking the fight to the other guy, but rather being there as a counter charge unit when they get close to your gunline.

[Hellrender]

i think it can do quite a bit of good stuff, the assault marines, but use them according to the strenghts of the codex. In simple terms: Shoot the choppy, chop the shooty. These guys chop the shooty a whole lot better then tacticals. But yeh, against a full assault army, like SW or BA, you might find them a bit less useful, but even then, they can attack weak units, support assaulted units, attack shooty units (long fangs etc). They certainly have its uses, it's ust that htey cost a lot, and something else for those points oftenly lets you do it more effectively.

[ShinyRhino]

I think that people are underrating them now that they've got hammer of wrath going for them. That's four attacks on the charge now, one of which is at I10. I still wouldn't run them without an IC with jump pack and Blood Angels obviously get the begetter end of the deal, being scoring and all.

 

I've run ASM a bit since 6th, and have found that Jump Infantry don't actually get their Hammer of Wrath attacks very often. You spend all your time using the 12" move instead. If you move 12" in the Movement phase, you don't get HoW in the Assault phase. You also have to remember that only models in B2B at the beginning of the Fight subphase get HoW attacks. So if you only managed to base with 4 models, you only get 4 HoW attacks. Sure, they auto-hit, but they're still S4 and AP-.

[ZRudi]

I usualy run them loaded with SS&TH/PF and two flamers as dedicated assault squad. at the forefront goes with them captain with SS, AA & fist/relic blade.

pretty nasty, when they charge into something which is weakened by rest of my army. either pure marine or marine/ig allies with lot dakka.

usualy we´ll clash in the middle of the board or somewhere nearby so I´ll have my other support units close.

when things looks bad and i´m loosing, i can still try to run away from fight and than autoregroup somewhere nearby, shoot the deathstar/ dedicated assault unit and charge it again.

[greatcrusade08]

I've run ASM a bit since 6th, and have found that Jump Infantry don't actually get their Hammer of Wrath attacks very often. You spend all your time using the 12" move instead. If you move 12" in the Movement phase, you don't get HoW in the Assault phase. You also have to remember that only models in B2B at the beginning of the Fight subphase get HoW attacks. So if you only managed to base with 4 models, you only get 4 HoW attacks. Sure, they auto-hit, but they're still S4 and AP-.

 

if your running flamers this is especially true, id rather use the 12" move to set up greater numbers under a template than to get a couple of HoW attacks

[Schultzhoffen]

Depends what you want from them.

 

Strengths: mobility...x2 flamers for hordes(?)...Hammer of Wrath (if you have a large squad).

 

Weaknesses: they're pretty much a tac squad.

 

 

Assault Marines can fullfil some roles reasonably well: counter attack reserve, horde thinning (flamers), tank hunters (melta bombs), HQ bodyguard.

 

Let's review each role, shall we?

 

1. Counter Attack: small unit of 5. Could be reasonable but probably suits a gunline army that needs some CC back up. May not do much most of the game.

 

2. Horde Thinning: 5-10 and 1-2 flamers. This can work wonders and is probably the best use of the squad.

 

3. Tank Hunters: ok (ish) but x2 MM Attack Bikes can do the job better, are more durable and cost about the same.

 

4. HQ Bodyguard: Before Chaplains became weak in CC, a JP Chaplain escorted by Assault Marines was the Industry Standard. Unfortunately, Chaplains are rather meh, so I wouldn't bother with them. A Captain with dual Lightning claws escorted by Assault Marines could work but the question in that case is: why not bikes? (T5, Scoring, etc).

 

A lot depends on your list but I find that assault marines are too mediocre to include in any army list I have (barring Blood Angels, of course). The only true CC units we have are TH/SS Terminators, Captain led Biker Command Squads (maybe), Honour Guard and Vanguard Vets (very pricey). Assault Marines cetainly don't live up to their fluff.

 

Although, I suppose you could run x3 squads of 10 escorted by a Librarian and a Captain for giggles....

[ShinyRhino]

4. HQ Bodyguard: Before Chaplains became weak in CC, a JP Chaplain escorted by Assault Marines was the Industry Standard. Unfortunately, Chaplains are rather meh, so I wouldn't bother with them. A Captain with dual Lightning claws escorted by Assault Marines could work but the question in that case is: why not bikes? (T5, Scoring, etc).

 

Mostly because bikes are terrible melee escorts. Terrible.

 

A unit of 10 ASM with a pair of flamers and a power sword is 225.

A similary armed and pointed Bike squad is only 7 strong.

 

The bike unit has 15 attacks on the charge (3 power sword), 8 when not charging (2 sword).

The ASM have 29 attacks on the charge (4 sword), 19 when not charging (3 sword).

 

HoW hits are too situational and random to be a real factor.

Bikes have better shooting and a higher maximum movement rate (Boost for +12") and better toughness, but they take Dangerous Terrain tests. ASM can jump over the terrain the bikes test on, but have shorter charge ranges.

Of course, when you're sending your core scoring units (bikes) in to a fight like that, losing has serious repercussions to objective games. One of the failings of my biker army is that I have to risk my troops units in the teeth of the enemy, whereas a tac squad army can hang out and weather the storm. All my firepower in a bike army comes FROM my troops, not despite them.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Bikes and ASM don't share roles, despite the fact that they share a FOC slot. If you want an escort for a melee Captain, take a melee-capable unit. Bikers are not melee-capable. ASM are by virtue of massed attacks. Dual-claw Captains aren't monster hunters, they're infantry hunters, same as basic ASM.

[Brother_Fatiswon]

always late to the party and not having played in the 6th yet...i've always ran and will continue to run my assault squads with triple plasma pistols and a sgt w/melta bomb.

[ShinyRhino]

always late to the party and not having played in the 6th yet...i've always ran and will continue to run my assault squads with triple plasma pistols and a sgt w/melta bomb.

 

In a recent event, I ran mine with FOUR plasma pistols. Two on standard Marines, and two on the Sergeant (yay Gunslinger!). I didn't play enough MEQ armies for it to be a good measure of their ability, but it was promising.

[greatcrusade08]

In a recent event, I ran mine with FOUR plasma pistols. Two on standard Marines, and two on the Sergeant (yay Gunslinger!). I didn't play enough MEQ armies for it to be a good measure of their ability, but it was promising.

 

hmm interesting, would you ever run ten in a drop pod with motf for 6 plasma pistols?

[Bannus]

It is sad that the Assault Squad has been neutered so much that not only are they incapable in their designated role (theay are 'assault' squads after all!), but the lack of hitting power was so noticeable that GW had to invent the Vanguard Squad to make up for it. Talk about your Rube Goldberg solution! It would have made far more sense to give the Assualt Squad back their weapons options.

 

That out of the way (sorry for the rant), the best thing for Assualt Squads is to hang back and time their assaults to match the rest of your army making contact with the enemy (so as many models are assaulting as possible - yes, the valiant Space Marines must 'mob' their opponents in close combat to have any chance of success...*sigh*).

 

The four plasma pistol idea is a little steep (not to mention dangerous) but may have merit since Space Marines are always a lot better shooting than in H2H.

[Syphid]

I have an entire packless squad that I used to run in a Rhino in 5th, but with the dismount assault changes I'm trying to figure out what to do with them. Put them in a LR? Drop Pod Assault, put out two flamer templates from the squad and hope for the best? Mount them in a Storm Eagle for anti-horde template goodness?