siege vanguard and badab war tactics!

[Tiger9gamer]

alright, so soon I will be in possesion of the badab war part two, IA 10! I'm very excited about it, especially the big list, the siege vanguard asssault. I know the basics, and i know about modern contradictions, but how wouldmyou think it would hold up in today's meta?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I sure do. People are taking more infantry, fewer tanks, and thus fewer anti-tank guns. The Siege Vanguard list allows you to take squadrons of our Heavy Support tanks (minus Land Raiders, of course) and of Dreadnoughts of all types. You can literally swamp most players' ability to kill armor.

 

Except 'crons. They'll just glance you to death.

[Tiger9gamer]

well, crons glance everything to death anyways, so it's always going to be a hard fight.

 

 

so, what would be a good list that covers the basics? i have one, but cant post it atm.

[maturin]

A siege list will do AV13 spam better than any other Marine list, bar none. But all those vehicles will leave you light on scoring units, and there's the additional objective you have to secure. And you can't take scouts.

 

For this reason I think a siege list works best at higher point levels, 1750 and up. What's your local point level?

[Tiger9gamer]

2,000-3,000pts usually. the first few months I hardly had a game before getting enough for most people.

 

 

 

so, right now I hardly have above 2,000, so the Siege list will be out for now. I got drooling over the special characters though!

 

 

(also: is there a 6th edition FAQ for the Special Characters?)

[Centurion645]

I hear you, the Badab War characters are pretty amazing, and I use a few of them quite often. What characters were you looking at trying out? They do have an update for some characters in 6th edition on the Forge World downloads page, but not too sure they have one for the Badab War characters.

[Tiger9gamer]

Well, for guys I can use off the bat and have similar models for:

 

 

Asarath Redth the Dust Warrior army. wide infiltrate? I can get behind that all the way. thinking of infiltrating 3 Tactical squads (all bolters and Teleport homers) a squad of sternguard (bolters and maybe meltaguns) a few deep striking tactical terminators, and maybe a predator or two vindicators.

 

 

High Chaplain Kane a big screw-off chaplain with Eternal Warrior, 2+ armor, and a relic blade/ power axe? sounds really good for 175pts.

 

 

Captain Pellas Mir'san one of the guys I was looking forward to the most. I am planning to use him for a fluffy character in my army as the champion who won the Feast of Blades twice. He seems like he could murder most characters you put him against, but I have to ask people if they would mind him having a power axe.

 

 

think these are good ideas?

[Centurion645]

I actually haven't tried these characters yet, but I have read up on them a bit.

 

Ahazra Redth: If you can make it work, then go for it. All those models up in your opponent's face will cause some damage, and you have the option to Outflank them as well. He also allows you some reliability against seize the initiative and will make sure your opponent's reserves don't come in for a little while. Bear in mind that he's pretty fragile with only 2 wounds, and a 5++.

 

Thulsa Kane: I'm not too keen on regular Chaplains, but Thulsa Kane is a monster once he gets into combat. He's basically an Eternal Warrior Chaplain with Chapter Master stats and lots of cool gear. Put him in a suitable squad geared for combat (Now Fearless), and let the carnage ensue.

 

Pellas Mir'san: I can see him working well as a character hunter, and working well in challenges. He can also thin down hordes a bit with his Combi-Flamer and then go into combat. Don't think you can make Cinder Edge a Power Axe, but he has another Power weapon in his profile, so you can change that.

 

My two cents.

[Tiger9gamer]

I actually haven't tried these characters yet, but I have read up on them a bit.

 

Ahazra Redth: If you can make it work, then go for it. All those models up in your opponent's face will cause some damage, and you have the option to Outflank them as well. He also allows you some reliability against seize the initiative and will make sure your opponent's reserves don't come in for a little while. Bear in mind that he's pretty fragile with only 2 wounds, and a 5++.

 

Thulsa Kane: I'm not too keen on regular Chaplains, but Thulsa Kane is a monster once he gets into combat. He's basically an Eternal Warrior Chaplain with Chapter Master stats and lots of cool gear. Put him in a suitable squad geared for combat (Now Fearless), and let the carnage ensue.

 

Pellas Mir'san: I can see him working well as a character hunter, and working well in challenges. He can also thin down hordes a bit with his Combi-Flamer and then go into combat. Don't think you can make Cinder Edge a Power Axe, but he has another Power weapon in his profile, so you can change that.

 

My two cents.

 

 

planning on modeling cinder's edge to look like a rapier though, and ment his other weapon :) kane does look awsome, and i think he would work pretty well in my list if i changed it a bit (stupid shooty arimes)

 

planning on useing a guy in my next game, will say how it worked out!

 

 

now, onto the main dish i love, the siege vanguard. already have a list made out if you guys are interested.

[maturin]

I actually have a Pellas Mir'san modelled up as well - and with a power sword (Cinder's edge) and power axe. Nothing in the rules against it! Just remember you don't get to re-roll a hit if you're using the axe. Though that begs the question - can you split his attacks between the weapons?

 

Not sure that Pellas will "murder" characters, but I think he'll be pretty effective for the points. More to the point, he's very flexible in that he can engage anything with a reasonable chance of success. Especially if you equip him with that AP2 axe!

 

There's no FAQ for the IA:10 characters, other than giving Bray'arth 4 hull points (vehicle list).

[Tiger9gamer]

heheh... excellent :P For my next game I'm planning on trying him out along side a libby. Will tell you how that worked out.

 

so, after talking bout characters, I have to ask you guys about the vanguard thin I made. already had an army list up on Dakka, but only one reply so far :down: think you guys could help me out?

[Malus Trux]

A couple of Badab War characters were updated, Sevrin Loth & Asarath Redth but it was mainly to make them in line with the 6th ed rules for pskers. Just check FW's download area under pskers. Redth's Mirage power now gives his unit shrouding & makes enemy charges against it disordered.

 

I'm curious about your list as I am currently planning on putting together an Iron Hands army using the SAV list.

[Tiger9gamer]

Alright, made the list up last night, so tell me what you think (be gentle)

 

HQ: Siege Master Novem (Relic blade, storm shield)-180p

Troop 1: Siege Assault squad (x2 power swords, Thunder hammer, Land Raider Redeemer w/ multi-melta)-470p

Troop 2: Tactical marine squad (x10 marines, melta-bombs, Rhino)-210pts

Troop 3: Tactical marine squad (x10 Marines, Melta-bomb Rhino)-210pts

Troop 4: Tactical marine squad (x10 Marines, Siege Mantles, Missile launcher) 255pts

H/S 1: x2 Vindicators (extra storm bolter)-250pts

H/S 2: x2 Predators (lascannon sponsors)-240pts

H/S 3: Dakka predator-85pts

Fortifications: Aegis line w/ quadgun-100p

 

Total:2,000pts

_________________

 

 

Alright, not a lot of tanks yet but I think this could work. I need to get the S. Objective across the board, so troops 1, 2, and 3 will push forward to the front alongside H/S 1, while Troop 4, H/S 2&3 sit behind the aegis to provide covering fire. This is just a concept idea and a launching off point for yet more tanks and weapons. what do you think?

[Malus Trux]

Nice. Got plenty of scoring but what have you got for spec/heavy weps for the Tac squads? Remember the flamer is a free spec wep & the ML/HB/MM are also free when you've got 10 man squads & always take one of them. Remember SAV gets 4 HS instead of the normal 3. I suggest separating at least one of your HS slots, preferably the Vindicators as people know to kill the ones with the biggest cannon. Forcing them to split fire can mean the difference of at least one making it into firing range.

 

Also at 2k you start seeing double FOC hijinks & SAV lacks in ack ack options so think about swapping a lascannon pred or 2 out for a 2nd HQ & a 2nd Aegis line. If you can fit in Redth, he'd turn the shield squad into a nightmare to deal with from range as well as add some psyker protection.

[Tiger9gamer]

Would include Redth, but I don't want army wide infiltrate for this. although I think he is the only vanilla HQ character that can take divination.

 

 

And for the tacts, I'm trying to stay away from free heavy weapons. I won two games with all bolters against Blood angels, and almost won against a nidzilla list (difference by 3 points) I'm keeping it this way for now, just to see how it works.

 

 

Yea, the double FAQ shenanigans look to be brutal for this list, but for now one step at a time. but what do you think would be a good way to play this list?

[Malus Trux]

Fair enough. If it works in your gaming meta then that's all that matters. Also, unless you really like Combat Tactics, Redth is still a good HQ as infiltrate is entirely optional.

 

As far as running, I suggest being aggressive most of the time as you need to be if you want to do more than just tie but don't always charge in. Remember, while objectives require your troops, the siege objective doesn't & anything can claim it as long as there's no enemies around. Drive up the Raider, Rhinos & Vindicators while supporting with the Predators & shielded tac squad. Against mid-range shooting armies (GKs, SWs, Vulkan C:SM) it might be better to hang back, plink the long range stuff & let the enemy move up before driving the Raider & Vindicators to do some damage. Close range armies should be whittled a bit before meeting them halfway.

 

Whenever possible, have the bolter squads focus on a single target, especially if you're in rapid fire aka assault range. You're still Codex Marines even if you are a variant so focus on shooting but of course if you get in range of a shooty unit, show them how pistols work. That SAS should be used to clear out targets of opportunity & entrenched (stealthed, bolstered, etc) units that shooting is having trouble with. Its essentially by itself as its the only combat oriented unit so consider having a tac squad charge in as well, either to draw overwatch fire or as backup & never charge an enemy combat unit unless you shoot it a lot first.

 

A side note, you may wish to have one power sword & one power axe in the SAS. With the Siege Master & the swordsman, you've got AP3 at initiative while the axe & hammer bring AP2 at I1, barring any challenges.

[Tiger9gamer]

Fair enough. If it works in your gaming meta then that's all that matters. Also, unless you really like Combat Tactics, Redth is still a good HQ as infiltrate is entirely optional.

 

As far as running, I suggest being aggressive most of the time as you need to be if you want to do more than just tie but don't always charge in. Remember, while objectives require your troops, the siege objective doesn't & anything can claim it as long as there's no enemies around. Drive up the Raider, Rhinos & Vindicators while supporting with the Predators & shielded tac squad. Against mid-range shooting armies (GKs, SWs, Vulkan C:SM) it might be better to hang back, plink the long range stuff & let the enemy move up before driving the Raider & Vindicators to do some damage. Close range armies should be whittled a bit before meeting them halfway.

 

Whenever possible, have the bolter squads focus on a single target, especially if you're in rapid fire aka assault range. You're still Codex Marines even if you are a variant so focus on shooting but of course if you get in range of a shooty unit, show them how pistols work. That SAS should be used to clear out targets of opportunity & entrenched (stealthed, bolstered, etc) units that shooting is having trouble with. Its essentially by itself as its the only combat oriented unit so consider having a tac squad charge in as well, either to draw overwatch fire or as backup & never charge an enemy combat unit unless you shoot it a lot first.

 

A side note, you may wish to have one power sword & one power axe in the SAS. With the Siege Master & the swordsman, you've got AP3 at initiative while the axe & hammer bring AP2 at I1, barring any challenges.

 

hmmm, okay, sounds good for combat tactics. I like the option to run away a lot though, as it sometimes saves from face stomping.

 

I didn't know that any unit could take the objective To be honost! maybe I should focus on one point (SAV objective), break the lines and spread out from there. I think it could work, but I have to perfect my tactics with focus firing.

__________________

 

 

alright, for the SAS in the redeemer I have a slight goal in mind. I was thinking to drive the raider forwards to a tough unit and-or the most opportune unit, Hit them with a flamestorm cannon and then have my assault squad shoot, then charge in and mop up. They have enough bodies to take a beating, and would deal a crud ton of chainsword wounds, which often for me, wins fights.

 

So the attack on the charge would have 4 Relic blade attacks, 3 power sword attacks, 21 chainsword attacks, 3 thunderhammer blows and 3 power axe attacks.

 

 

also, would a TH/SS unit do more? I kinda want to stay away from them for now.

[Malus Trux]

I used combat tactics a lot in 5th ed with my Ultramarines & will probably use them a lot in 6th with my White Scars so I understand your reluctance to part with them.

 

Not really a fan of TH/SS Terminators as I roll low a lot but if you run into high toughness, low armored or armor ignoring combat units a lot, they would do better. Otherwise I'd stay with the SAV as 6th ed has more & more players running large swaths of infantry & more attacks, especially with furious charge, causes more hurt. Plus sweeping advance is very funny with this unit.

[Tiger9gamer]

okay, valid points! time to buy a buttload of assault marines.

 

also: 50 pts for all combat shields.

 

 

And an interesting fact... SAV lists can ally with the vanilla marine codex. I find that pretty amusing, but kinda pointless.

[Malus Trux]

Yup. It gives you access to Scouts, Land Speeders, Bikes & Drop Pods. If you find yourself running into flyers a lot, take a TLLC Stormtalon or if you use IA: Aeronautica take an Air Defense Battery. Plus if you wanted to, place Redth here so you keep combat tactics on your core troops.

[Tiger9gamer]

There is an idea! should have thought of that sooner. maybe tyberos use or someone too just as a contrast to my "noble" knights. Have to start building more assault troops though...

 

 

Oh, additional question: what would be better, a land raider Helios or the two predators I have listed? That way I could combat squad Troop 4 and give them all tank hunter. then, I have a quadgun and missile launcher on one side and their land raider transport could split lascannon fire between things (and blow up flyers). also behind an aegis defense line it would be fairly hard to take down.

[Malus Trux]

I like that idea a lot better than the auto-las preds and that's an excellent way to get another ack ack source, especially with PotMS. When you get the Hyperios upgrade for it, the launcher (but not the lascannons) gains Heat-Seeker (re-roll misses against flyers & fast skimmers), Skyfire AND Interceptor instead of AA mount & ignore jink.

[Tiger9gamer]

so that thing will become the monster of all tank hunters?

[Malus Trux]

2 TLLCs, a very accurate anti-aircraft krak missile & Tank Hunter? Yes, it can be a nightmare for vehicles of all types & come to think of it that would be a very good name for the tank. I look forward to seeing how you fare with your Knights especially if you get a WIP thread going.

[Tiger9gamer]

I have most of my army painted, but I think I should make a WIP thread. where would I put it? :)