Jolemai Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 On a number of threads at the moment there is talk of nullifying the Aegis Defense Line with Quad Gun emplacement combo. This, along with a squad of Scouts equipped with Camo Cloaks is the preferred combo and they are appearing on a lot of lists as the cheapest way to get anti-air. Naturally this spells doom for our Storm Ravens and must be removed from play quickly. What do you feel is the best method for this? * Scout Squad with Close Combat weapons, 1-2 Shotguns, Sergeant with Power Weapon and Combi-Flamer? * Baal Predator, either with Flamestorm Cannon or Assault Cannon (Heavy Flamer or Heavy Bolter sponsons) * Tactical Squad/Sternguard,Furioso in a Drop Pod (with as much Flamer weaponry as possible) Or something else? What options do you see working best to nullify (and even take control) of this Aegis Defense Line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Just shoot the gun. I usually have a devastator squad behind my own Aegis Line with a Librarian. If I have a Stormraven my first target with the Dev's will be my opponents anti-air. If you can get Perfect Timing power on your librarian then the gun is going down, pretty much guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Sniper scouts, might as well use that 4+ wound roll for something. Or just pod down and take over the weapon, my personal favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Sniper scouts, might as well use that 4+ wound roll for something. I frequently take Sniper Scouts and pretty much every single game I find myself asking why. They do zero damage due to low BS, 4+ to wound and never seeming to rend. Occasionally they will absorb a load of fire due to lucky cover saves but more often than not they will either get toasted by templates or mulched by assault troops. Statistically speaking the Scouts need 16 shots to take out the quad-gun. I prefer the Dev's for this particular job as they need fewer shots (9 with missile launchers). Yes, they are more expensive but I find them to be far better at the job and more useful for the rest of the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitadelArmyGuy Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 My vote goes for a Furioso Dreadnought with Frag Cannon. If you target the Quadgun then you can hit it with your meltagun and grapple, then the Frag Cannon will 'splash' damage onto the scouts. Although, the Quadgun is not necessarily a death sentence for a Raven. Str7 against AV12 means they need to get pretty lucky actually to take the Raven down in one go. Also, if they do fish that 6 to penetrate, its only AP4 so they'll need another 6 to kill. Of course every turn the Quad is alive their chances get way better since Hullpoints become an issue. However, it's not so much the Quadgun as much as that Quad plus other various Heavy Weapons fishing out extra damage. Luckily only the Quad currently has Interceptor rule, so chances are good the Raven will get at least one turn to gun down some of those Heavy Weapon teams to reduce future damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Missile Devs, autolas preds or typhoon speeder all work a treat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 sternguard in a pod are great too!! wound on 2+ !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 sternguard in a pod are great too!!wound on 2+ !! That's a lot of points to remove a 50 pts model... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Vanguard Vets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 sternguard in a pod are great too!!wound on 2+ !! That's a lot of points to remove a 50 pts model... For sure! But not too much more than whats been suggested- 160 minimum for 5 guys, but much more likely to net a kill than either the ML devs, the Laspred, the scouts, - and add one or two extra guys (as we would) and that goes even higher. Only the Furioso dread comes close and thats only if you get it on the undefended side. That being said, depending on what was out at the time, id more than likely go for the infantry gunning the thing (With said sternguard!) then take it over in the subsequent turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 sternguard in a pod are great too!!wound on 2+ !! That's a lot of points to remove a 50 pts model... Are we really talking about dedicated units? I just thought about using stuff that might already be in your list. Hence the scouts since they are likely to be in range thanks to infiltrate and the snipers rifles do more good shooting T7 than T4 anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I was suggesting things that might be in your list already, myself. I'm not a big fan of podded sternguards. Being isolated makes them vulnerable once they take out their target. Sometimes, its a valuable tradeoff, but often it won't be. Take for example my last game against a Fist player: he podded 7 sternguards with 2 meltas and a lightning claw and Lysander (so 435 pts or so). Killed a combat squad (80 pts) and half of another (so 40 pts) and then lost 6 out of 7 sternguards from focused fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 My original post was about getting a first turn strike on the Aegis Defense Line, ideally to take it over for your own use, but to kill it at second best. The options I have put up, in my opinion, are better at getting that first strike as opposed to things like Devastators and/or Destructors/Annihilators as they might be out of sight following deployment. Not only that but any unit inside there will go to ground and will prove hard to shift. Therefore I thought of using Flamer Templates (including the Frag Cannon) as it ignores cover and also the ability to get an early assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 My original post was about getting a first turn strike on the Aegis Defense Line, ideally to take it over for your own use, but to kill it at second best. The options I have put up, in my opinion, are better at getting that first strike as opposed to things like Devastators and/or Destructors/Annihilators as they might be out of sight following deployment. Not only that but any unit inside there will go to ground and will prove hard to shift. Therefore I thought of using Flamer Templates (including the Frag Cannon) as it ignores cover and also the ability to get an early assault. You deploy fortifications before you place any units so you should always be able to get a first turn strike on the quad-gun. It also makes no difference if the unit manning the gun goes to ground as the gun itself cannot. It will usually get a 4+ cover save from being behind the ADL but the Devs/Sniper Scouts etc are, IMO, a better option than effectively suiciding a close range/assault unit behind the ADL in order to get close to the gun and negate any cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calnus Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Drop pods make fortifications cry. If you can get inside the walls, you don't need a template weapon, but if you have a Frag cannon available, it WILL make a mess of whatever is cowering behind the wall. You're not likely to destroy the gun in one turn, but you could remove the models in base to base with it, forcing your opponent to move to fire the gun. Which most likely results in snap-shots, meaning less damage output anyway. Plus, the Furioso is about as scared of the quad gun as he is of baby kittens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy12009 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I usually run 2 baals anyway. Throw enough bullets down range and the squad will die. It's the same way I take out terminators except they'll have at best a 3+/4+ instead of a 2+/5+. You don't have to be an Orc player to use Orc math :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Hmmm since this topic already exists ill post here as an exercise.. how would BAs deal with a lone wolf in TDA manning an icarus LC? I will likely be rolling one of these this weekend for kicks against some BAs and im looking to brainstorm counters and such prior to. The LW is cheap and very resilient and gets rerolls vs. walkers and t5+ and he wont give up any KPs if killed (neither does the gun) which is attractive. On the downside he does give a KP if you leave him alone but I doubt flyers will want to do that. Discuss.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Shoot him with lots of mundane shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Hmmm since this topic already exists ill post here as an exercise.. how would BAs deal with a lone wolf in TDA manning an icarus LC? I will likely be rolling one of these this weekend for kicks against some BAs and im looking to brainstorm counters and such prior to. The LW is cheap and very resilient and gets rerolls vs. walkers and t5+ and he wont give up any KPs if killed (neither does the gun) which is attractive. On the downside he does give a KP if you leave him alone but I doubt flyers will want to do that. Discuss.. Shoot the gun, then leave him alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmaarrkk Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Devi's with ML and libby with divination powers, you want perfect timing, ignores cover saves, that plus prescience if you have a lvl 2 libby means you are guranteed to kill the quad gun first turn, used it to good effect in a few games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitadelArmyGuy Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Devi's with ML and libby with divination powers, you want perfect timing, ignores cover saves, that plus prescience if you have a lvl 2 libby means you are guranteed to kill the quad gun first turn, used it to good effect in a few gamesIf you're gonna gun-line it with Lvl2 Divination Psyker, you might as well play SW. Because Long Fangs do it better. But then again I'm prejudiced against BA Gunline. No secret around here I value manuever above all. Shooting support elements work better with allied units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Okay I will ask the stupid question, how do you shoot a ILC in an aegis line. I am looking for armour stat lines etc but cant find it please help me out how do you shoot it does it have hull points whats the deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 T7, 2 Wounds, 3+ save. Look under Gun Emplacements in index. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 T7, 2 Wounds, 3+ save. Look under Gun Emplacements in index. Thank you Morollan ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 You know running CSM lately as well as my BA ive noticed how freaking effective a regular tac squad is in a pod. ALWAYS in rapid fire range, the melta can slag anything and next round they take over the Aegis and turn it on ME!!! Thats a shock, having a quad gun shooting my daemon engines in the back. Also effective was a 3 HB 1 PC dev squad with extra bolterbodies - the HB cleared out my back zone and the marines just took charge. There may be somethign there for us to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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