Grey Hunter upgrades: Axe or MOTW

[SamaNagol]

I see people going for MOTW often, but with Redning proc rate being so low surely the Axe will put out more guaranteed wounds against everything that isnt 4+ save?

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

I see people going for MOTW often, but with Redning proc rate being so low surely the Axe will put out more guaranteed wounds against everything that isnt 4+ save?

 

I haven't punched the math on it but I'd assume that outside of 2+ armor stuff, MotW when combined with the Wolf Standard is a win.

 

Against Terminators though I'd rather have the axe. MotW is effective too but too random for my tastes.

[the jeske]

Kind of a depands on the GH builds and what are they doing [are they walking/poding/in a rhino . is there a WG , is he in termi armor] . I am runing both mark and ax for non WG units and only mark for units for my pod GH . I also dont run MotW if there is a melee HQ with the unit on GH that is .

[Jarl Deathwolf]

The thing with Mark of the Wulfen is despite the fact that you aren't guaranteed many AP2 attacks, you strike at your intiative, which becomes huge when otherwise non-powerfist/thunderhammer/etc. terminators have already killed a power axe. With the power axe the most you can hope for is to strike at the same initiative as them. Then consider that the Mark is more flexible than the axe: 3-8 attacks on the charge (or counter-charge) with rending is equally good against hordes as against 2+ saves.

 

Let loose the Beast, wolf-brother. :)

[SamaNagol]

Hmm.... Sure you swing at Initiative, but the likelihood of that GH Axe dying is really low. On average you are rolling up 5-6 attacks, getting about 3 hits. 2 wounds.... that's a 3rd of a rending attack. I cant see that being better than the 3 Axe attacks against 3+ or better

[d@n]

axe all the way for me. keep the axe model at the back and pile in for the win.

[eyeslikethunder]

MotW when I have to pick but both is nice combo

[spacewolf407]

I would go with a powerfist.

[thor1234]

Go Both!! expensive but ouch!!! just make sure theres a banner about to re-roll those ones!

[thor1234]

Go Both!! expensive but ouch!!! just make sure theres a banner about to re-roll those ones!

though If I had to choose one (points restricting and the like) I'd pick wulven first then the axe.... due to the multiple attacks and potential to kill lighter infantry,,,,,,

[beerbeard]

Powerfist is just too expensive on a GH. You can get a WG in TDA with the same weapon for only 3 more points. Add a wolf claw and you have a choice at which initiative you strike. I like both the axe and the Mark, but I have to choose I take the Mark. As someone said, it's more flexible.

[Brom MKIV]

As jeske stated for me it depends on the pack. I like TDA/axe if its a larger pack size, sword if in PA (for example transport restrictions). Also if its a smaller pack 5-6 strong like a razorback pack then motw for sheer damage potential with the standard, plus wgpl with sword if pts allow. Ill usually end up with a mix of all 3 though.

 

Its also worth noting that a wgpl with motw can do some serious sniping if not challenged, although overall I feel non character wulfen are best as 'hidden' initiative order ap2 potential. With the wolf standard it happens pretty often that I can throw a 5 or 6 initially or off a rerolled 1. In these instances a pack of 6 has better damage output than a full sized meq squad.

[SamaNagol]

I am hearing all this 'potential' for it being much better, but the Axe still seems statistically better than the MOTW on a basic GH model.

 

As it stands I already have 8 GH with a Banner and special weapon joined by a TDA WGPL with Axe and combi-weapon. (in Drop pod)

[Belfast]

I am hearing all this 'potential' for it being much better, but the Axe still seems statistically better than the MOTW on a basic GH model.

 

As it stands I already have 8 GH with a Banner and special weapon joined by a TDA WGPL with Axe and combi-weapon. (in Drop pod)

Well it's potentially better since if everything rolled perfectly, you can get 8 rending attacks on the charge assuming all hits and all 6's to wound. Let's do some quick math.

 

The average number of attacks MotW gets on the charge is 5.5 (1 base, 1 charge bonus, and 3.5 attacks from the d6 roll. Assuming you need 4's to hit, you should have 2.75 wounds to roll. From here you should get .458333 rends which means thr likelihood of getting 1 ap 2 attack is pretty unlikely. Now this goes up considerably when Fighting a worse weapon skill, using a wolf banner, etc.

 

The power axe on the charge gets 3 attacks which is 1.5 hits. Since you'll most likely need 2+ to wound, you should end up with 1.25 ap2 wounds.

 

Now this was all assuming meq stats. With anything worse than meq, MotW gets better since your none rending attacks will do more damage.

 

In other words, the axe is going to get more guaranteed wounds against TEQ but MotW can potentially kill many more through rends and forcing extra armor saves

[Rift Blade]

Prefer MoTW simply due to the style of games I play here. We show up at our local hobby store usually with a points value of armies near the next upcoming tournament(we usually have 1 every 2nd month as well as 2 other cities within an hour & half's drive that host occasional tournaments as well) & play pick up games against whoever happens to be there looking for a game. MotW offers more versatility to me in this enviroment cause rending causes some opponents to do silly things(like hide a tank in ruins with no real field of fire--still don't understand that one) & gives me a chance vs. hordes & most amour. You even have that small chance vs 2+ saves.

[Valerian]

As it stands I already have 8 GH with a Banner and special weapon joined by a TDA WGPL with Axe and combi-weapon. (in Drop pod)

 

How many units like this do you have? When you Pod in, these will all typically be pretty close to the enemy and might spend much of the game in close combat. I'd recommend that you go for both. 30 total points for both is a great deal, and a good investment for units that are likely to see a lot of close combat.

 

Valerian

[Brom MKIV]

I am hearing all this 'potential' for it being much better, but the Axe still seems statistically better than the MOTW on a basic GH model.

Your right the axe is more reliable and in the pack example you gave I would favor the axe. In smaller packs however unwieldy becomes more of a liability to be lost prior to striking. The middle ground is obviously the simple power sword which is my current favorite for small packs due to 4 ap3 attacks at initiative order for only 10 pts. Obviously though the sword cannot dent 2+, which is why some people myself included roll with a few motw here and there. Also as stated if you face other armies besides meq then motw shines, especially against orks where i4 strikes first. Not saying butting heads with orks is always recommended though haha.

 

As it stands I already have 8 GH with a Banner and special weapon joined by a TDA WGPL with Axe and combi-weapon. (in Drop pod)

This is my standard pack as well and I find it sufficient although in a pts vacuum sure add more killy. Hmmm I may actually max one pack for combat just to see what happens. Also an interesting option I have yet to try is wg in tda with motw plus an additional motw and leave the axe 'hidden'.

[eyeslikethunder]

The power axe on the charge gets 3 attacks which is 1.5 hits. Since you'll most likely need 2+ to wound, you should end up with 1.25 ap2 wounds.

 

Why 2+ to wound a power axe is str5 ?

[MeatGrinder]

I'm a fan of taking both, but if you have to choose without knowing your opponent, take the axe. Its an assurance that you can take down terminators.

Otherwise Motw vs light infantry, axe vs heavy infantry.

[Belfast]

The power axe on the charge gets 3 attacks which is 1.5 hits. Since you'll most likely need 2+ to wound, you should end up with 1.25 ap2 wounds.

 

Why 2+ to wound a power axe is str5 ?

Ooh, good point. I'll fix that when I'm not at work