Ghostwolfalpha Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I have recently started to play with TWC and really like the options they offer on the board. I have read the threads posted earlier, but I wanted to poss a couple of questions to those who have more experience with them. We play mostly 1500 - 2000 point games and roll for standard missions, I play a lot of Imp Guard, Tau, CSM, and Orks, with that in mind. How many should I run and is it more effective to use multiple units? I usually use 4 TWC (SS, WC, 2 Regular). With a RP in TDA, 10x2 GH, LF missile pack x2, and whatever I feel like this game. Usually sniper scouts or TWL. TWC scare the crap out of every single person I play them against. They literally do everything they can to kill this unit. It amazes me how much firepower my opponents will throw at them. That aside, when they make contact, its a beautiful thing. They move fast and can take down almost anything (if they make it), and have no need to roll for a challenge. The more I play SW, the more I realize that units work best in groups. If they don't fight as a pack, they lose. TWC are so expensive and they get shot at so much, I just wonder if it is worth the points to give them more SS or invest in a sec unit. With the TWL they become a Deathstar, but I really want to know what is worth the points. Is a WGPL a better option for the points? Are two packs of 3 TWC a better option? From my experience, Battle Cannons and Rail guns are the bane of my TWC's existence. Any advice would be much appreciated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 In my experience, just one SS has been enough in 6th, due to the new shooting rules having to pick the closest model. Just stick the shield up front and laugh. Besides, ultimately, you really shouldn't have them unengaged in melee longer than the first turn, meaning they should only truly be shot at for 1 round. What I usually do though, to make sure, is I stick my TWC in deployment behind some terrain and wait for my opponent to move closer...yeah, it's 1 turn of waiting around, but I'd rather have my carnage-dealers at full strength when they hit melee rather than chance one or more of them getting picked off on the first turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3237649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 2 units of 2x TWC w/ a power fist each is lean and effective. You need to be smarter with how and where you move them then simply throwing a Thunderlord blob up the field but when not sacrificed needlessly the 2 units can put out a lot of damage. I also agree with the above sentiment about working together as a group. The only unit in the codex that can do the lone wolf bit is... well, the lone wolf. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3237722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy12009 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I built mine in 5th and used one as a wolf lord model. That leaves me with a pair of TH/SS pups. Cost is always an issue with these guys, but they've never failed me. As a reward for all their hard work, I don't mess with them. If it ain't broke and all... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3237739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwolfalpha Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 I don't put them in front of the guns needlessly, but my most common opponents are IG and Tau, they don't really move forward much. Like I said, they do whatever it takes to kill these guys. I am not entirely thrilled with the loss of their high Init. I love powerfists as much as the next wolf, but running up to PW characters is likely to see one dead before he swings. I think I need to play a few more games with these guys with different loadouts and see how things go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3237775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor1234 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I generally run 4 wolves with a thunder-lord one has a SS one has a SS/PF as the special weapon is generally the last model you remove ( or try to :tu: ) ive found sneaking a shield on him gives him a bit of survivability..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3237813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbin484 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I have only played around 6-7 games using Thunderwolves so my experience isnt great. However, I run just 2 wolves, one with a wolf claw, one as standard and both with Melta bombs. Ive never been a player to put all my eggs in one basket so to speak so at only 130pts (if my memory serves me correct!) they are a relatively cheap unit for what they can do. Admittedly they have let me down a couple of times in the early games I used them, but once you get used to using them and once they are in combat they are great. As Wulfebane mentioned the key really is keeping them alive that first turn as by your turn 2 they 'should' be in close combat with something. 12" move then run and a potential 12" charge with re-roll they are pretty certain to get there by turn 2! Really try and use your cover, maybe even difficult terrain and get a 5+ save. Just keep them alive one turn. Alternatively, get a SS lol! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3238006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I run 3, all with SS, one fist, with my runic armor lord with SS and fist. by the end of a game, the unit is typically gone and the lord is floating around with 1 wound left, but a fair amount of my army is either unscathed or still in condition to grab the now uncontested objectives; their warlord is down, as well as their own hammer unit if they brought one to the field. Most people will shoot everything they have at the wolves, but if your dice are with you, they will be infuriatingly resilient- more so if you roll a 5 on the personal chart for your warlord. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3238147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiOfRuss Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I run a config similar to Iacton. Lord with 2+ 3++ SS and TH with EW (Saga of the Bear) with 2 Fen Wolves, plus 2 more TWC both with SS one with WC. I have the WC to help kill hordes, and the Lord is there to kick butt and win challenges. I was loathe to loose Init 5 at first, but once I finally tried the hammer, hitting at S10 and with Eternal Warrior and T5, there's not much that can match him in a challenge or on the field at all. Learn to use them tactically! Don't just hurl them down the field with no support to be shot by everything. Have them advance along with all your other stuff (Grey Hunters or whatever) and give the opponent tough choices. Hide them behind ruins and stuff when you can, terrain doesn't slow them down! Cavalry rules in 6th are awesome. You move 12", aren't slowed by terrain, and have Fleet. That means charges are way more reliable. Don't forget that Fleet allows you to reroll your Run distance (if you're not charging)! A word about Fleet. I have heard/read many people complain about Fleet in 6th, I don't see why: the stats don't back it up. I wrote a computer program that rolls charges with Fleet the old way (6" + d6" + 6") and the new way (6" + 2d6" rerolling anything with a 3 or less). After 1 million rolls, the average fleeting charge under 5th was 15.5" and in 6th it's 14.5". Additionally, your chance of getting at least a 6" charge with Fleet in 6th is 90.2643%. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3238399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I think most complaints about fleet come from those that used it differently than us like orks and their waaagh. I find Twc much improved with the 6th ed cav rules Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3238567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwolfalpha Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 Thanks for all the advice. Lots of good stuff. I think I am going to try 3 TWC (SS, SS, WC) with a TWL (TH, SS, RA, SotB) leading the way. I try to put them in cover or make another target more appealing, but my opponents just shoot them dead. I play a lot of IG and Tau, so big guns and lots of them... and they all shoot at my TWC. I like making my RP my warlord because he hangs out with the old guys and shoots from a distance. Is it more worth it to make it the lord? I have very bad luck with dice, so random traits never end up working out. Also, my opponents rarely answer challenges, and if they do, I would rather let my Lord tear thru the unit, then waste him on a scrub squad leader and the power weapon I am about to show him how to use. Are they too pricey to put in a second unit of TWC? SW work so well in groups. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3238604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor1234 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 If I might suggest there Ghostwolfalpha?? try to squeeze in a 4th TW Ive found 4 to be the magic number, the extra guy really does make a difference.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3238644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I have tried 2 twc+TWL packs at 1750 I have had some great games against Ig with them but i did find the core of my list(GH) weakened so i had to be more careful with them. so i have been using 1 in the main. another note I not a fan of the WC it is good at killing the same units/models as the TWC already. But it does not really cover their weakness 2+sv troops, dreadnoughts and tanks with high alround armour. Powerfists and Thammers fill this gap better and give the unit something it does not already have. Quite often vs these two foes once in the TWL splits off and if he has the only ap2 weapon that can be a problem. If the guard /tau you are playing are foot based then yes you might as well take the WC. But you mention lots of str10 shots which suggests they have tanks and some 2+(broadsides) saves. So I would have a PF or TH for greater consistency against these foes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3238661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiOfRuss Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I think most complaints about fleet come from those that used it differently than us like orks and their waaagh. I would tell any Ork player that an Ork waagh with Fleet is better in 6th. As I've shown, the charge distance is about the same (within an inch, on average), with Fleet it is greatly more reliable than a non-Fleet charge, but here's the thing that I've never seen someone talk about: you can still shoot! An Ork can Waagh, SHOOT and benefit from Fleet! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3238892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 another note I not a fan of the WC it is good at killing the same units/models as the TWC already. But it does not really cover their weakness 2+sv troops, dreadnoughts and tanks with high alround armour. Powerfists and Thammers fill this gap better and give the unit something it does not already have. What you're forgetting is the re-rolls they grant. Out of just about every unit in our codex, the TWC perhaps benefit most from a WC simply due to the sheer amount of attacks they get with base stats. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3238904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I'm sorry if this should be in a different forum, but I figure this could apply as a potential tactic... If I were to attach a biker Rune Priest to my Thunderwolf Cavalry unit, does that stop the TWC from running and the Rune Priest from moving flat out? Seems Rune Priests would be an excellent buff to TWC and maybe even eliminate the need for a ThunderLord at lower points levels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3238921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I can't remember exactly, but my impression of the 6e rules was that you could have different movement speed factors in any one pack, and so long as they keep unit coherency, it's allowed. There was an attempted loophole to this that was determined invalid, where a LW would try to slingshot into melee by letting his fen wolves retinue make a longer charge, thereby putting the "unit" into melee and allowing the LW to consolidate, but it was decided that BOTH wolves had to stay in coherency of the LW, so it didn't work as effectively. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3238935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I can't remember exactly, but my impression of the 6e rules was that you could have different movement speed factors in any one pack, and so long as they keep unit coherency, it's allowed. There was an attempted loophole to this that was determined invalid, where a LW would try to slingshot into melee by letting his fen wolves retinue make a longer charge, thereby putting the "unit" into melee and allowing the LW to consolidate, but it was decided that BOTH wolves had to stay in coherency of the LW, so it didn't work as effectively. I can't see the slingshot working that great anyway considering overwatch. Anything with half decent volume of shooting attacks would obliterate the wolves. I'm thinking with the attached bike the only thing that might be affected is fleet... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3238936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 another note I not a fan of the WC it is good at killing the same units/models as the TWC already. But it does not really cover their weakness 2+sv troops, dreadnoughts and tanks with high alround armour. Powerfists and Thammers fill this gap better and give the unit something it does not already have. What you're forgetting is the re-rolls they grant. Out of just about every unit in our codex, the TWC perhaps benefit most from a WC simply due to the sheer amount of attacks they get with base stats. Nope just rate being able hurt something over being able to hit it rerolls dont help much killing land raiders, ironclad dreadnoughts and terminators and ID ing heroes. PF/TH make the unit a much more alround threat to wider set of targets giving them greater versatility. Meaning you dont get tarpited/ beaten half as often. Quite often what rerolls do is kill a few more grunts so that i finish them off in one turn leaving me out in the open to be shot The wonder of Pf is smashing a tank(av10 rear) knowing that every hit penetrates. Every wound on those sang guard is a kill. That your opponent will not be getting his FNP. Every wound ID's those Nob Bikers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3238963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 The unit must be entirely composed of models with fleet to use it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3238969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elithren Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I ran 15 TWC in one tournament with 2 small 5 man GH squads. I was laughing my head off as I would run them up the board and then literally crash into opponents deployment. I lost, on average, 3 to 4 from shooting, but if you run them in high numbers, it wont matter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3239212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I ran 15 TWC in one tournament with 2 small 5 man GH squads. I was laughing my head off as I would run them up the board and then literally crash into opponents deployment. I lost, on average, 3 to 4 from shooting, but if you run them in high numbers, it wont matter. How many points was this list? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3239839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elithren Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 1500, it was lots of fun. Granted, 15 TWC took up about 900 points but people just couldn't deal with them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3240094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwolfalpha Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share Posted November 24, 2012 I ran 15 TWC in one tournament with 2 small 5 man GH squads. I was laughing my head off as I would run them up the board and then literally crash into opponents deployment. I lost, on average, 3 to 4 from shooting, but if you run them in high numbers, it wont matter. How effective was it and who did you fight? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3245484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaraion Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I ran 15 TWC in one tournament with 2 small 5 man GH squads. I was laughing my head off as I would run them up the board and then literally crash into opponents deployment. I lost, on average, 3 to 4 from shooting, but if you run them in high numbers, it wont matter. How effective was it and who did you fight? Yes please let us know this... sounds very different and fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265773-thunderwolf-cavalry-in-6th-ed/#findComment-3246271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.