Are you having success with 'cult troops'?

[Minsc]

I too think of the cult-troops more as elites than troops (albeit elites that can become troops.)

 

The reason for this imo, is that our basic CSM can compete with most of the cult-troops in some ways now, instead of just being worse versions of them.

 

MoS-CSMs can't compete with Sonicblaster-equiped Noise Marines for obvious reasons.

MoS-CSM's with bolter+pistol+ccw are usually a worse option that Noise Marines with bolter+pistol+ccw, because the Noisemarines only cost 1 ppm more, and gain fearless - the kicker here ofcourse, is if you want 2 meltaguns or a Doomsiren.

MoS-CSM's with pistol+ccw/bolter can compete with Noise Marines with pistol+ccw/bolter, due to being noticeable cheaper. (Still the "Doomsiren vs 2x Special Weapons" to consider.)

 

MoK-CSM's with bolter+pistol is usually a better option than Khorne Berzerkers due to the option for special-weapons. They're better because they are more versatile, however if you want them as a pure CC-unit, Berzerkers is not a bad option either. (I've used Berzerkers in this edition, and they still perform like clockwork, assuming that they get into combat that is.)

 

MoN-CSM however, is pretty much always a worse option than Plague Marines - ccw+pistol/bolter MoN-CSM's can work due to being quite cheap, but I would always take Plague Marines over Nurgle-Marines if they were troops.

 

MoT-CSM's and Thousand Sons aren't really comparable. Both are sub-par choices, but they are too different to eachother.

 

So imo:

 

Slaanesh-Marines are very viable, even if Noise Marines are troops, depending on their loadout.

Khorne-Marines are often more viable than Berzerkers, but they will always be worse in combat.

Nurgle-Marines are viable, but outshadowed by Plague Marines on almost all accounts.

Tzeentch-Marines are a bad choice full stop: Unless you play a fluffy list, there's no reason to take MoT instead of no/another mark.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I admit I'm having a hard time letting go of Plague Marines, they were a fixture in my forces all through 5th Edition and true T5 is such a huge pull for me to field Typhus that I often find myself designing lists with, yeah, 7-deep plasma or melta squads of PMs sitting in the core and Typhus sitting in the Warlord slot. The others I could almost do without except for the Berserker horde in my World Eaters build. My New Year's Resolution will probably be to go back to basic CSMs and start list generation around them and probably Cultists for 2013.

[minigun762]

but the points are there . out of all cults 1ksons and NM are too situational and cost too much to be effective . zerkers are ok , but they are an assault unit , csm with mark of khorn are just as good and can also shot . pms are ok campers , but you have to take a lord to make them troops . this means no ax lord , no huron or no sorc , taking pms forces a lot of limitations , too many imo

 

I agree with Thousand Sons, but then again I think we all agree that GW loathes them.

 

Berserkers do get solid competition from MoK CSMs. I think it comes down to specials vs WS5 & fearless.

 

Noise marines, I'm biased on because I want to like them and I'm still working on that.

 

Plague marines though, I don't think they have that many limitations really. Nurgle lord can't run Khorne axe but it can still run black mace or power fist. Toss it on a bike and you're basically a fast moving MC. Typhus is of course an option if you're ok with zombies. You still have a second slot for Huron if you want. I think the flexibility of using 5 man squads with dual specials for holding objectives or larger squads for claiming objectives is very useful, especially when compared to CSMs being forced to be 10+.

[Urauloth]

Crusaders are overpriced just like regular Land Raiders, and while the Crusader can carry more troops its weapons are less than stellar.

 

They're absolutely fantastic compared to the trash heap of a raider in the CSM codex, though. Assault launchers alone make them vastly better, to say nothing of PotMS. If we could take crusaders, possessed might just be salvageable.

[RolandTHTG]

While I mostly agree with you Minsc, but the 6 points per model (8 if you don't want the extra ccw) savings for MoN CSM are quite convincing for large squads. Since I've been running power-armored horde, those extra bodies help with the intimidation factor.

[the jeske]

Plague marines though, I don't think they have that many limitations really. Nurgle lord can't run Khorne axe but it can still run black mace or power fist. Toss it on a bike and you're basically a fast moving MC.

you know , but thinking this way you could buy cheaper nurgle csm and have points to buy an actual flying MC . using the left over points from csm and the points you use to take a mace lord ,and bikers could be smaller or even taken 2x3 because you would no longer need a bodyguard for a lord. Again am not saying that pms are bad . they are ok , but one ok unit , that limits your own lists does not make a good list .

[nurglez]

My usual 1500 point list used to have 4 squads of 7plague marines (1 landraider 3 rhinos), Now my current list has 2 squads of 7 (combi melta, power wep + 2 melta, combi plasma and 2 plasma) and 2x10 cultists with a flamer. I am yet to use marked "normal" marines.

 

I've won more then I've lost when playing vs my friends, but I also have a landraider (yes a single landraider at 1500 points), a forgefiend and a heldrake. I keep a spare rhino around to transport a cultist squad and that seems fine.

[Prot]

I admit I'm having a hard time letting go of Plague Marines, they were a fixture in my forces all through 5th Edition and true T5 is such a huge pull for me to field Typhus that I often find myself designing lists with, yeah, 7-deep plasma or melta squads of PMs sitting in the core and Typhus sitting in the Warlord slot. The others I could almost do without except for the Berserker horde in my World Eaters build. My New Year's Resolution will probably be to go back to basic CSMs and start list generation around them and probably Cultists for 2013.

 

I don't know why you would have to make a 'resolution' with yourself to stop using Death Guard/Plague Marines as troops. I mean if it's working for you, why would you change it?

 

So it seems like the cult troops are a bad choice... on such a new codex this is disappointing. Like I said I started with this codex by using cult units, and eventually stripped everything off to make the competitive. Now to add some spice to my hobby-life I wanted to do a predominantly cult troop army.

 

I've probably made about 10 lists, trying to find a sweet spot for something I haven't painted, or haven't painted _recently_. Thousand sons? Sound cool, but I can't get them to work. (2 squads max in 1500). Noise Marines? Another cool idea but I can't make it work.... Now while I started playing with Khorne Berzerkers, the thing is I have a full army of them (Forgeworld) and quickly discovered the basic CSM with MoK is better imo.

 

The closest I've come to feeling like 'yea, this might work' is 2 squads of Plague Marines, but I don't know what to do with the HQ to make them troops (at 1500) and not get hammered for it.

[zyl-]

Nurgle lord on bike seems to be a fairly popular answer to that.

 

I personally went with Typhus, plague marines, and plague zombies for a Death Guard run at 1500. I'm not going to claim it was the most effecient army, but I had a lot of fun and it seemed effective. The only real limitation I found here was that I pretty much had to take a footslog army, but since havocs and oblits are great heavy choices, I had no worries. As for faster options, bikes or DS terminators seemed to hit the back lines well.

[Kelanen]

Plague Marines are by far the best troops available in the codex. Good enough to use an HQ to make scoring in more or less any list.

 

Noise Marines are also good, and there's potentially room for 10 man units of cultists/zombies without upgrades.

 

The others don't make the cut, including Berzerkers and basic CSM.

[Paradigm]

I think it totally depends on how you plan on using your army, and how competitive you are.

 

Plague Marines are viable as troops, MSU is still a viable way to play. This is one of the few units that still does great in a rhino, and even though the rhino isn't going to make it past turn two, the plague marines are going to get stuck in on their objective.

 

The noise marines are the new black, almost everyone likes them, and with good reason, they put the hate on anyone trying to take your objectives, give them FNP and the doom siren and take em in a decent sized squad, say 8-12. They will hold your objective and shoot the hell out of anything that trys to take it away. Given a smattering of SBs helps here. Also, short of dedicated close combat specialists, they will also be able to hold their own in CC thanks to their higher I against most troops.

 

The Zerkers are much harder to use now, now they are dedicated counter assault. These guys are not going to be trekking across the table or riding there either. With the new rules and the new codex they are best used to keep dedicated close combat units away from your objective holders, (IE the cultists you take so you can afford the zerkers).

 

Thousand sons can be used as a troops choice, but not if they are the only troops choice. You have to have at least one cultist squad per TS squad. You're going to have to tailor your FA, HS, and Elite spots to handle high AV.

 

The Common CSM is great again, at 13 points it rocks for what you get, you could build out your entire troops slot with nothing but 12 man csm squads and you'd be ok, the danger here is when you start limiting bodies. You have to play a saturation game, which comes to cultists.

 

Cultists are amazing with just a little support, they go great with a few marine squads protecting them and giving them a cover save, this is why they synergize well with almost anything in the dex. Cheapest squad you can take to protect your cultists is CSM squads. If you put a Dark apostle in with the cultists and keep your csm squads close you don't need votlw and your cultists stick around. I plan on using this approach for my army. Two 35man cultist squads with 3 flamers and two twelve man csm squads with dual plas. You can substitute the cult troops in for the the csm depending on what you want to do. There isn't a cult troop that is bad at keeping the entire blob alive. Some are just much less efficient.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Just played a game with my Zerkers. Still love em. (I havent played with my chaos army since 3ed). They took it to some Eldar. Although I didnt need them too much because my Lord on a Juggernaught did most of the combat work, and DP with Brand, predator with las, and MoN oblits did the shooting work.

[tvih]

The Zerkers are much harder to use now, now they are dedicated counter assault. These guys are not going to be trekking across the table or riding there either. With the new rules and the new codex they are best used to keep dedicated close combat units away from your objective holders, (IE the cultists you take so you can afford the zerkers).

I was considering something like this. Either at the objective, or another role I need a squad or two for - manning the Aegis line against squads coming to harass my Preds and Havocs. Namely, since half my games so far have been against Dark Eldar, those brain cancer-causing wyches/hekatrixes. Of course when they are always joined by schizophrenia-causing incubi, they'll be dead in one turn anyway, making them expensive for the role :D