Raven Guard: The Drop Site Massacre.

[.Torch.]

In the Horus Hersey fluff it is mentioned that the Raven Guard tested the MK6 power armour around the heresy era, would they have had a number of suits at the drop site massacre?

 

I want to do an army based on this fluff and I love the MK6 armour. Just wanted some thoughts and input on the MK6 production.

 

Thanks :)

[Olis]

No, they wouldn't. They received the very first batch after the Dropsite Massacre, coming to them after they had returned to Deliverance from Terra. This is detailed in the HH book Deliverance Lost. :)

[.Torch.]

Damn, it looks so cool.

 

Thanks, I shall give that one a read for further ideas. :cuss

[Emperor's Furor]

Of course they would, they where testing them in small amounts prior to the massacre, they were honoured with the suit being named after their Primarch because they did so much testing with it. They only received a large quantity after the massacre from Dorn. So I'd say yeah they would be about just not in massive numbers.

[Pavement Artist]

No, they wouldn't. They received the very first batch after the Dropsite Massacre, coming to them after they had returned to Deliverance from Terra. This is detailed in the HH book Deliverance Lost. :cuss

 

In the same book, it does also mention that they did prior testing on the armour, so there may have been prototype suits on Istvaan.

[.Torch.]

Of course they would, they where testing them in small amounts prior to the massacre, they were honoured with the suit being named after their Primarch because they did so much testing with it. They only received a large quantity after the massacre from Dorn. So I'd say yeah they would be about just not in massive numbers.

 

 

 

I was considering building a small force for a doubles tournament in the future and I want it all to be correct to the fluff.

 

Would roughly 20 suits be viable?

 

And what pattern bolter would of been the most prominent with the loyalists?

 

EDIT: Didn't see Kraine's post above.

[Emperor's Furor]

It's said in Deliverance Lost they where testing the equipment a lot, so much so they named the suit the Corvus pattern, after Corvus Corax. There's loads of pictures to so I wouldn't think it was a problem.

[Olis]

Damnit. I forgot the prototypes. :wallbash: :rolleyes:

[caprera]

The book doesn't say it clearly either... I'd say that if you were to picture the Raven guard at the drop site I wouldn't go for it. It seemed to me that they tested and gave back the suits and the problems encountered with it. It would be logic to leave the prototype armours and take back the old but reliable ones. If, as I will do, you prefer to represent it after the visit to Terra, then Yes: a considerable number would be plausible but still remember that ALL those issued at that time were Artificer. No in-line produced armours were ready yet, so they would have been unavailable for common marines.

[Kol Saresk]

I thought the Imperial Fists were testing it and it was named after Corax because the Raven Guard would be the first Legion to use it in battle and abundance?

[caprera]

Nope, Raven Guard tested it thoroughly, I assume also encountering some losses because of general issues. Hence the nickname of the MKVI, while the Imperial Fists delivered the first armours artificer made but nothing else.

Which Legion started using them first I don't know, but surely it would have taken some time to make the first batch exit the assembly lines.

[Emperor's Furor]

The armour the Raven Guard received was the armour that Sigismund rescued from Mars I believe.

[Necris]

It also has in Deliverance Lost the commander Branne I think (which is shameful as I've literally just put it down) asking what happened to the MK V's and being told that the Ad Mech has decided that all ad hoc repairs and suits between the MK IV's and MK VI's are to be considered MK V's so their prototype suits for the MK VI Corvus armour would be considered MK V's

 

You could do some MK VI's with a few exposed pipes armour variation to indicate that they are in essence transitional armour types from MK IV to MK VI

[Count the7]

The armour the Raven Guard received was the armour that Sigismund rescued from Mars I believe.

Thats what i read in to it all so that the units on route to Istvan V were equiped with the Armour saved from Mars to give them the Edge against the trators (also why the Word bearers with nice shiney new red painted MK VI in Battle for the Abyss, at Calth and Istvan V)

[Kol Saresk]

I'm getting really confused because I remember Know No Fear as saying that the Word Bearers were wearing Mk IV, not Mk VI. Also, because I was very confused, when I got home about twenty minutes ago, I started looking for the relevant passage in Deliverance Lost. This is what I found on page 328, starting at fifth paragraph, not counting the continuation of the last paragraph from the page before.

 

'Mark VI,' said Noriz. 'The latest design from Mars.'

 

Branne said nothing as he approached the closest rank of empty armout. It looked instantly familiar, at first glance little different from the Mark IV armour he wore. On closer inspection, the Raven Guard commander could see the subtle differences in panel shape and bonding, the thicker material of the flexible joints, the solid greaves covering the knees. Most obvious was the bolt-reinforced left shoulderpad and the helmet design.

 

'They still require a little further work, I'm afraid.' said Noriz. 'Lord Dorn wished them shipped out to you as soon as we were able. They're artificer made, pre-production. You'll be the first Legion in the Imperium to be issued with the Mark VI.'

 

'A nice gesture,' said Branne. He ran his hand over the studded shoulderpad. 'We performed combat tests on the prototypes for two years during the campaign through the Scalland Sector, I see they've solved the problem of the abdominal plating we reported.'

 

'Most of the improvements your Legion suggested were implemented,' said Noriz, almost wistfully. 'Protection is no better than the Mark IV, but the internal systems are far more efficient.'[skipped rest of paragraph, makes comments on what changes were made.]

 

Branne nodded. 'You called it Mark VI. What happened to Mark V?'

 

Noriz pointed at the Raven Guard Legionaries.

 

'With full production not yet begun on Mars, these are the only suits available. Our companion transport has another fifteen hundred of them, on top of the five hundred we are carrying. In the absence of reliable Legion supply lines, the Mechanicum have designated all non-standard or stop-gap designs as Mark V. Many of the improvisations made by your armourium after the dropsite massacre are being passed on to other Legions in the absence of replacement parts for the Mark IV. Your Legionaries already have Mark V commander.'

 

'Why us?' said Branne. 'I'm thankful for the help, but this is a long way to come repay us a favor.'

 

'In recognition of your part in testing the suits, and because you need them most. You have been honored. The Mark VI is to be known as the Corvus suit.'

[skipped two lines. Branne's joke about the Raven Guard and the Beak helm.]

'It is named after your lord, as thanks for the part you have played and the losses you suffered when testing the prototypes.'[paragraph goes on, but no longer relevant.

 

Okay, you will notice that I have skipped some parts. That is mostly because it is a rather long passage as you can see, and because it was irrelevant. So yes, the Raven Guard did test the prototypes, but nothing says if they kept the prototypes after testing. As the finished product seemed to have had quite a bit of modifications made, the prototype was virtually a different suit of armour so even if they had kept them, it most likely would have been different at least in capability if not in appearance. So there is a possibility that there was some of the prototype product at Istvaan V in the Raven Guard.

 

Also, this also points out that only the Raven Guard wore the finished product, which were fresh off the assembly line, before the end of the Heresy. So, the Word Bearers did not have Mk VI armor.

 

I feel the need to point out there might have been a difference between the appearance of the prototype and the actual Mk VI because Branne's joke about their Legion name and the helmet's beak-design. For some reason I felt like a comment about it would have been made earlier if the beak had existed in the prototypes and IIRC, a picture of the design layout had the beak filled with some of the modifications that were mentioned.

 

Essentially, I wouldn't have a problem if there were Mk VIs in a Dropsite Massacre RG army, although in my opinion they should be spread out across the army or consolidated into one or two Elite slot units. Although as I stated, I have a small, unimportant, inconsequential feeling that it might have looked a little like the Mk IV in the prototype stage.

[caprera]

I mostly agree but your sentence about the Beak joke and the fact that Ravens pointed out a major flaw during tests would suggest that those armours were left aside after testing...also we don't know how much time passed between Istvaan V and the campaign through the Scalland Sector, in which those armour were tested. If it were days those armours would still be available. Otherwise they could be easily handed back along with reports.

 

Also another thing. Here the joke makes me wonder again: as you say if the helmet beak would have been already present the joke would be no surprise. Then the fact that each model in-between has been renamed MKV would suggest that even if some of those Corvus were available, no clear resemblance to the model we know could be seen.

 

Either way it would be better not to use those models: I suggest instead to spend some more time on MKVs and mixing the pieces by just adding the MKVI legs for instance. That would really do the trick to me.

 

My 0.02 hope you agree :ermm:

[the damned artificer]

As far as I remember from reading Mechanicum the suits the IF liberated were mk IV maximus battle plate :huh:

 

On the subjec of using mk VI suits on an isstvan V RG army I would say no, it seems pointless to keep experimental suits in service unless they were still being tested (which it seems they were not at this point) and as long as they were not in short supply of functional and approved marks of battle plate :) But if you insist I would also suggest going with parts scattered around units, but from the quote earlier on it would seem that the studded shoulderplate and beakie helmet would not have been part of the test suits and I suspect that's some of the main features you like about mk VI so it might not be worth the trouble.

[TennisBall]

I was considering building a small force for a doubles tournament in the future and I want it all to be correct to the fluff.

 

Would roughly 20 suits be viable?

 

It could be that an entire unit would be equipped with the new stuff to gauge how it works so maybe a squad in your army could be in it.

And what pattern bolter would of been the most prominent with the loyalists?

 

Phobos, going on FW stuff. It also fits in with the idea that the traitors had weapons that could punch through existing power armour with ease and a good way to show it on the table. So traitors would get the umbra pattern first along with most of the first shipments of MKIV armour.

[Verythrax Draconis]

I would model just 1-2 elite squads as using MkVIs, as testing units.

[caprera]

Phobos, going on FW stuff. It also fits in with the idea that the traitors had weapons that could punch through existing power armour with ease and a good way to show it on the table. So traitors would get the umbra pattern first along with most of the first shipments of MKIV armour.

There are at least a couple of mistakes here :D