Chaos Terminators in 6th Edition

[Lepaca]

So I have to admit it: I'm still a big big fan of chaos terminators. I love how they look. I love the box. I love the many different ways to equip them.

 

But that leads to the question: Are they still competetive?

 

I has come to my attention that the old idea of a termicide unit seems to have fallen out of favor because bikes are the far superior choice when it comes to melta delivery.

So that leaves us with the alternative, big terminator units!

 

But how to equip them in terms of weapons and marks? And how big is big enough?

 

I have been thinking about something like this:

 

8 x terminators

7x combi-plasma

4x Mauls

3x Axes

Champ /w combi-plasma and LC

 

This looks solid enough (especially when accompanied by an IC but more on that later) and leaves us at a little less than 300 points.

 

On to the question of marks.

 

The cheapest option by far would be Khorne and even though the mark does nothing in terms of protection it definately increases the unit's offensive output (we can also attach an axelord).

Then comes Tzeentch, which IMO is solid against opponents with lots of AP2 weaponry.

Next up would be Nurgle which protects us against lots of small-arms fire but does nothing against things like autocannons and S7 tesla spam.

And the most expensive version would be Slaanesh + Icon. Now the I boost seems nice against MEQ opponents but terminators have no grenades so we spend these points mostly for the FNP.

 

Now if we decide to spend this many points on a unit we want to make sure that it synergizes with the rest of our army. Placing our warlord in the unit is a step in that direction.

For this we have to keep in mind that our warlord must have the same mark or be unmarked to be able to join the unit.

If you decide to go Khorne an axelord seems like a solid choice.

For every other mark a Fist+Claw lord seems to be the best option (can even get a 3++ with tzeentch for only 40 points. What a bargain :) ).

However an unmarked biomancy sorcerer might be great as well and can be combined with every mark!

 

Lastly there is the question of delivery.

Do we want to spend points on the overcosted Chaos LR as well? Propably not at this would leave us with a unit of 5 terminators max.

This leaves us with the options of infiltration and deep striking.

If we managed to infiltrate this unit up to 12" to the enemy army then we might pull of a first turn charge (which is unlikely given the units massive foot print. Also we want to use our combi-plasmas.)

Outflanking (via infiltrate rule) would possibly allow us to enter the battlefield close to our prefered target and unleash our plasma-goodness on it without the risk of DS mishaps.

Deep Striking is basically just like outflanking just with added mobility + added risk. But having some reserve manipulation would be nice to have if we decide to outflank or DS.

 

So these are my two cents of the topic.

What do you think?

[minigun762]

I'm not sold on the land raider as an option. Too expensive, holds too few bodies and I don't want it to be possessed for fear of eating my expensive models.

 

This means you're looking at deepstriking, but we're limited to the comms relay for reserve manipulation which means no quad gun.

[Paradigm]

I've found nurgle terminators to be best point for point of the bunch. They have the survivability of the FNP terminators almost exactly, when you look at the math, and are usually cheaper. Sure, you don't get the +1 I, but what terminator squad is going to leave home without a few powerfists anyway.

 

If you're planning on making your terminators plasma nightmares, I'd not bother upgrading the champion to have a lightning claw. I'd also only do this if you have a lot of plasma elsewhere, as its expensive and while one round of 16 plasma shots assuming 12" is good, your going to do much better gearing them for melee, with a few powerfists and push into cc as soon as possible. I'd either deploy via infiltrate or hump it out across the table, it means you wont be able to deepstrike into a good spot, but it also means your opponent will be splitting his fire and that 2+ will pay dividends. This goes back to the plasma, its great for that one turn of firing, but if you footslog you are going to lose terminators too fast to take full advantage of it, and if you deepstrike you probably wont get rapid fire, and wont be able to charge after the shots.

[nurglez]

+1 toughness is nice, but only useful against infantry weapons (and less useful vs poisoned attacks). Plasma will still beat you with the mark of nurgle.

 

However, FNP from slannesh is pretty costly, and can be sniped out.

 

I'd use mark of nurgle, but thats cos I like nurgle, if I didn't follow papa I'd probably go for the mark of tzeentch for 4++ -_-

[Paradigm]

The +1 toughness means less wounds you have to save, and is better against most weapons. True, plasma will still rip through you, but plasma will rip through anything not av12 or better. Even with the 4++ you are going to lose terminators, but it doesn't matter if you have that save if they are shooting you with bolters, the 2+ is obviously more useful. You are only 16.6% more likely to save on a 4++ vs 5++ against those relatively rare plasma shots, that same bump on the to wound chart is going to be far more effective, and you still get an 5++ if you fail your roll.

[nurglez]

The reason I'd prefer tzeentch over slaanesh + FNP, is due to the cost and the possibility of losing the icon.

 

If only we could get plaguemarine terminators... oh well -_-

[Smurfalypse]

They can still termicide just fine. Drop them in the back line and kill a vehicle, though less people are running gobs of vehicles these days and more large infantry units.

 

I have found a huge amount of success running them in full 10 man units. Built for shooting with just a few power fists in the thing they can hold their own vs any threat on the table. When I do this however, I always put an HQ in their with them, usually a Sorcerer in term armor. They are an anvil that are very difficult to deal with.

[Excessus]

FnP icon is good and all, but you can also get FnP from biomancy on your termies...

[Urauloth]

I have found a huge amount of success running them in full 10 man units. Built for shooting with just a few power fists in the thing they can hold their own vs any threat on the table. When I do this however, I always put an HQ in their with them, usually a Sorcerer in term armor.

 

I really want to try this. How do you deal with ordnance, though?

 

You are only 16.6% more likely to save on a 4++ vs 5++ against those relatively rare plasma shots, that same bump on the to wound chart is going to be far more effective, and you still get an 5++ if you fail your roll.

 

Wait, what? If you fail which roll

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

You are only 16.6% more likely to save on a 4++ vs 5++ against those relatively rare plasma shots, that same bump on the to wound chart is going to be far more effective, and you still get an 5++ if you fail your roll.

 

Wait, what? If you fail which roll

 

He means the 4++ from MoTz is only 16.6% better than the 5++ from a regular Terminator invul Save, and in the case of the MoS with Icon Termies, even if you fail the 5++ invul against plasma you still get another 5++ FNP roll to survive it.

[Urauloth]

Ah, FNP, ok. Never seen it referred to as a double-plus before which threw me a little.

[Paradigm]

No, I'm referring to the failed to wound roll. If you fail your to wound roll on an ap2 weapon you still get your invul. 16.6% bump in survivability before the invul will allow fewer wounds, and they will still get the save via your 5++. If you take the MOT then sure you're invul is better, but you wont even use the invul often enough to compare it too survivability from T5. Which will be stopping wounds before you even need to save them.

 

However the FNP is also better than the MOT bump to invul. MON is better as well. MOT is best used for very specific reasons. MON is comparable in pure survivability to FNP in most circumstances and cheaper.

[Lepaca]

Do you think there is any case to be made for unmarked terminators?

[TheDarkApostle]

When you take a small min sized squad for 75 pts to unlock MORE "Heavy Support" in less than 2000 pts games :P

 

TDA

[minigun762]

Do you think there is any case to be made for unmarked terminators?

 

I think so, if you're goal is a termicide squad or something similar. 3-4 guys with combi weapons only, keep it cheap and disposable.

[Brother Ambroz]

I think there's still a case for unmarked termies, even as something other than termicide. Deepstriking a decently sized unit (maybe 5) behind enemy lines usually freaks out the opponent a bit. Alot of the time it seems more of a shock factor than anything, but it buys time for other units.

[Smurfalypse]

I have found a huge amount of success running them in full 10 man units. Built for shooting with just a few power fists in the thing they can hold their own vs any threat on the table. When I do this however, I always put an HQ in their with them, usually a Sorcerer in term armor.

 

I really want to try this. How do you deal with ordnance, though?

 

Depends, but for the most part I do not want large templates killing my scoring units. Plasma cannon Tactical Squads are giving me more fits lately than anything, but they still have to do a fair amount of focus to really remove them from the board.

 

I tend to pair up my large term units with faster assault units and force my opponent to choose. He can ignore the terms and focus the faster assault units (Bikers with a Lord more than likely) or he can focus my Terms and deal with the other stuff getting board control.

 

As far as targetting, anything that has a chance to blow holes in your awesome units becomes a priority. So if a Vindy was there, I would focus it or at least ensure it couldnt shoot for a turn or two. Also things like that usually only have a 24" range, so you can actually keep back a bit and kill it later on. Just depends on how everything plays out.

[Max_Gore]

In theory I like a large unit of Tzeentch Termies infiltrating via Huron/Ahriman. Probably with combi plas, maybe with combi melta.

 

Not sure if I'll ever try it though, I don't have the models or the points to spare. Elites are currently the last slot I want to fill.

[techsoldaten]

Do you think there is any case to be made for unmarked terminators?

There is a case for any unit with that good a save.

 

I think unmarked terminators are most useful in smaller games. Anything above 1500 points, I would give them MoN, they are practically unstoppable at that point.

 

TBH, I have like 25 Chaos Terminators and have not used them in a 6th edition game. The OP is right, Bikers have proven a lot more fun to play with in 6th edition. I have been tooling around with some army lists that I might run someday, but they are just collecting dust for right now.

[Lepaca]

I have found a huge amount of success running them in full 10 man units. Built for shooting with just a few power fists in the thing they can hold their own vs any threat on the table. When I do this however, I always put an HQ in their with them, usually a Sorcerer in term armor. They are an anvil that are very difficult to deal with.

 

May I ask what mark you take and what kinds of ranged weapons you equip them with?

What powers to you go for with the sorcerer?

[Brother Dakath]

I've run a squad of 6 Khorne Termies with a Lord with an Axe of Blinding Fury and an unmarked Sorceror in Termie Armor as well as 6 Nurgle Termies with a Lord and an unmarked Sorceror in Termie Armor. Both units I've found are pretty killy. I have both walked and deep struck them. The Nurgle Termies are usually more durable and can tie up tons of units to kill them, especially if I roll Endurance on the Biomancy table, the Khorne Terminators will eat almost anything they come across. I've had success with both units, I haven't tried Slannesh or Tzeentch yet though.

 

As for ranged weapons I have 2 combi-flamers, 2 combi-meltas, 1 Combi-bolter and a Reaper Autocannon.

[Brother Ambroz]

Played a game yesterday, Night Lords vs Thousand Sons. I had a squad of 5 unmarked termies and a sorceror, he had 5 termies and a sorceror with MoT. I killed 4/5 of his MoT guys with simple bolter shots whereas mine got hit by a defiler, meltas and bolter fire. My unit ended up taking out at least a 3rd of his army and the game went from my opponent solidly in the lead to it being very close. This game really convinced me that MoT termies just are too expensive for what they do. MoN or MoK might be the only ones I'd ever take.

[Cypher-xv]

I don't collect chaos, yet with the new cataphractii models I want to start using them for space hulk themed games using the zone mortalis set and rules. I don't have the new codex, so I don't know what weapon set or sets to buy. Please help.

[Brother Amarel]

Im not completely signed off the cheap Termicide unit yet (even though it's 112, now), but I'm giving a bit of a try out to unit of 5 MoT with combi-plas, hvy Flamer and a mixture of Power Weapons and the single LC (because its such a cheap upgrade).

[Brother Ambroz]

Still alot of points Brother Amarel that can die just as quickly to bolter fire....