Chaos Terminators in 6th Edition

[Brother Amarel]

Still alot of points Brother Amarel that can die just as quickly to bolter fire....

I don't disagree at all, but that 4++ save will help against the low(high?) AP stuff which generally targets them, and even one more turn of that will keep it away from other targets. I do remain a little unconvinced that they're worth the cost of a Land Raider (despite how frowned upon that is), but I'm determined to give them a proper try-out before I (metaphorically) discard them ;).

[the jeske]

IMO there are two main ways to use termis in 6th ed . 3x3 with plasma as cheap survivable plasma which isnt worth shoting at , but at the same time cant be totaly ignored . Those should be used in armies with units like DPs or big biker and khorn lord units. other way is a +2 spam 2x8 and 9 oblits a more static slogging gunline[the 3x3 should be walking too , no deep striking for chaos termis this edition ]. But to be honest after the DA hit home runing non +3 inv termis is going to be a bit unfun.

[Lepaca]

IMO there are two main ways to use termis in 6th ed . 3x3 with plasma as cheap survivable plasma which isnt worth shoting at , but at the same time cant be totaly ignored . Those should be used in armies with units like DPs or big biker and khorn lord units. other way is a +2 spam 2x8 and 9 oblits a more static slogging gunline[the 3x3 should be walking too , no deep striking for chaos termis this edition ]. But to be honest after the DA hit home runing non +3 inv termis is going to be a bit unfun.

 

Would you equip the bigger term units with a full load of combi-weapons?

[the jeske]

yes. shoty is the way to go . I run big termi units like this 2ax 2 swords 2maces 1 fist[but I am runing 7 termis not 8. if I took 8 I would probably run one less ax and 2 fists] and full load out of combi weapons . with huron , if you manged to roll 3+ , it creates a huge wall of plasma and +2sv+power weapons that is both hard to just kill off and to counter charge in melee [actualy there are some units that I would gladly double tap with snap fire on charge].

[Sception]

How does your 2x8 + 9 oblits deal with fliers? Are the oblits enough, do you take an ADL or guard allies?

[the jeske]

IG ally at 1850+ or doesnt deal with flyers under. I think I said it before chaos doesnt realy play so well [when well is easy and smooth like IG/SW or necron] under 2k points.

[Jonah]

I don't think the suicide meltas should be totally discounted. I deepstruck 3 meltas next to a Draigowing last night and sniped the apothecary thanks to the new wound allocation rules. And I would have killed 2 Psycannons if 2 of the meltas hadn't missed :D Also they didn't end up suiciding because the paladins had to shoot at a Prince, so they heroically ran away and got Linebreaker.

 

There's a psychological effect too. Having 3 deepstriking meltas hanging over your opponent can make him play more defensively.

[spafe]

I tried running a unit of 7/8 (cant remember exact number) with MoS, reaper, 1 pari of claws, axe, mace, 2 chainfists, 2 lances, and couple of combi meltas and icon. With VotlW they basically marched forwards with a unit of marines marching either side and gave me some heavy inf reliabiltly to my battle line. What ever I needed them to do they could. Ended up shooting down a rhino while advancing, then lending fire support to drive of some grey hunters, before engaging in a unit and smushing them. Then tied up logan and his termi retinue for a turn before my khorne lord plus zerk rentinue hit. the game ended with I think 2 or 3 survivors.

[Spaz431]

You are only 16.6% more likely to save on a 4++ vs 5++ against those relatively rare plasma shots, that same bump on the to wound chart is going to be far more effective, and you still get an 5++ if you fail your roll.

 

Wait, what? If you fail which roll

 

He means the 4++ from MoTz is only 16.6% better than the 5++ from a regular Terminator invul Save, and in the case of the MoS with Icon Termies, even if you fail the 5++ invul against plasma you still get another 5++ FNP roll to survive it.

 

You move up from a 33% chance of success to a 50% of them living.

[Lord Ferox Heartcleaver]

I tried running a unit of 7/8 (cant remember exact number) with MoS, reaper, 1 pari of claws, axe, mace, 2 chainfists, 2 lances, and couple of combi meltas and icon. With VotlW they basically marched forwards with a unit of marines marching either side and gave me some heavy inf reliabiltly to my battle line. What ever I needed them to do they could. Ended up shooting down a rhino while advancing, then lending fire support to drive of some grey hunters, before engaging in a unit and smushing them. Then tied up logan and his termi retinue for a turn before my khorne lord plus zerk rentinue hit. the game ended with I think 2 or 3 survivors.

I've been using a 7-man termie unit to accompany my Chaos Lord to similar effect, though I deep strike the unit (to act as a heavier follow up to the various Khornate things running at the enemy) and run more fists, a heavy flamer, no lances, and no claws. Between shooting up a target when they come in and slaughtering anything in assault range after, they have been the most effective (at least for shock value) unit I run.

[Iron_Within]

I like Terminators in this edition save for one option; the Reaper Autcannon. It is the stupidest option. 25pts would get you a Twin linked Lascannon on a Predator, so why is it 25 for a terminator? Especially when it's useless for a close to medium range unit? It would be more viable if it were 15 pts which would make sense. Does anyone actually use it? I have two because I liked the look of them but that price they just gather dust. It's a crying shame.

[zyl-]

Even if it were less points, the fact remains that it doesn't compliment the squad very well at all.

[spafe]

If it were less points it would be a no brianer upgrade for a guy who has a combi-bolter, as its jsut 2 shots that are better all teh time. On a termie platform it being heavy means very very little compared to it being rapid fire. At 25 it gives the unit a pair of high strength shots if walking from the get go, can still hurt armour 12 with decent chance, so helps with extra firepower towards lighter trucks, and you dont lose attacks by giving one to a termi unless the other option was twin claws.

 

yes a las upgrade for a pred is same, but it already has a auto!, so by the gain is one less shot, plus 2 str, and -2 ap. from bolter to auto, its +24 range (matters if that chrimera miles away exposes side armour, or if you walk forawrds), +3 str, and -1 ap, plus 2 shots all time rather than jsut within 12. this seems like a comparable increase in ability to me.

[the jeske]

at 25 pts it means it will never be taken . there is a huge difference between paying that much for 2 str 8 ap 3 shots or 4 str6 rending shots and 2 str 7 ones . they could be quad linked or even have a rule to always hit and they still wouldnt be worth taking .

[spafe]

But jeske, we don't have loyalist weps (I'm assuming your refering to cyclone and assult cannon). Same way we dont have thunder hammer stormshield termies. So what we do have, is a unit that can take 2 str 7 shots, while mixing in some twin claws and a mix of power weps. We are a middle ground unit, meant for multi-tasking, rather than shootinators or hamminators

 

Edit: I'm wondering if you had the option to take a reaper in a unit of hamminators if it would be taken to give them such range? Esp if they didnt have such better raiders for getting to the action

[Sception]

And we get those S7 shots from combi weapons. Reapers just aren't worth bothering with. Maybe if they were 10 points cheaper, and 1 per 3 models instead of 1 per 5. As it is, the unit costs too much to be firing just a single reaper at long range, and once you're at short range you have better, cheaper guns. At short range, you only get a round of shooting or two if you're lucky before assault anyway, so the single shot nature of the combi weapons doesn't even hurt that much.

[the jeske]

But jeske, we don't have loyalist weps (I'm assuming your refering to cyclone and assult cannon). Same way we dont have thunder hammer stormshield termies. So what we do have, is a unit that can take 2 str 7 shots, while mixing in some twin claws and a mix of power weps. We are a middle ground unit, meant for multi-tasking, rather than shootinators or hamminators

 

Edit: I'm wondering if you had the option to take a reaper in a unit of hamminators if it would be taken to give them such range? Esp if they didnt have such better raiders for getting to the action

DA can take hvy weapons in TH/SS units , they dont even run AC in those because rending is not good enough [and that is 2 more shots then we do per turn] . they always take cylcons. Ah and by the way those terminators are troops so they can take more of them and they still dont take AC , not even for utility .

 

If your taking terminators then your either deep striking them [less optimal] or infiltrating them . combi plasma do more damge . and to be honest str7 ap 4 sucks when not spamed . If we could take 3-4 reapers in a 10 man squad then yeah some people could math hammer it[i would still be in the combi plasma camp]

[Sception]

IG ally at 1850+ or doesnt deal with flyers under. I think I said it before chaos doesnt realy play so well [when well is easy and smooth like IG/SW or necron] under 2k points.

 

I haven't played anything at that many points in 6th ed yet. Does chaos actually play well even at 2k points, when other factions are unlocking their second primary and allied detachments, and actually have the points spare to put them to use?

[derpasaurus]

i'm personally terrified of deepstriking, i have terrible luck with it.

outflank, on the other hand. oh yes.

if i don't use my termies as bodyguards for huron, i sneak them in and punch tanks in the butt.

 

i run a 5 man squad with reaper autocannon, combimelta, and a bunch of fists/axes. mine are mostly geared to kill other terminators, because my local meta has a bad case of terminatorphillia. i'm considering running a 2nd squad of 5 for more shooties, i still have an elite slot open, as is.

 

in general i find terminators to be useful, if only for a sacrificial unit. people are usually very reluctant to ignore 2 power axes, 2 power fists, and a chain fist stomping around backfield. this can at best annihilate your enemy, and at worst distract them for a couple of turns while they reposition to deal with the threat.

[the jeske]

IG ally at 1850+ or doesnt deal with flyers under. I think I said it before chaos doesnt realy play so well [when well is easy and smooth like IG/SW or necron] under 2k points.

 

I haven't played anything at that many points in 6th ed yet. Does chaos actually play well even at 2k points, when other factions are unlocking their second primary and allied detachments, and actually have the points spare to put them to use?

it plays more smooth . we arent nids but 4 hvy support slots make some options better. 2 oblits 2 havocks for example works more smooth , then 1/2 or 2/1 set up . being able to run a sorc , a khorn lord and a huron also makes the list better

[Brother Amarel]

it plays more smooth . we arent nids but 4 hvy support slots make some options better. 2 oblits 2 havocks for example works more smooth , then 1/2 or 2/1 set up . being able to run a sorc , a khorn lord and a huron also makes the list better

Exactly, it means that you actually have a little fat to play with. I used 8 Termies with Combi-Plas yesterday and they worked out pretty well (although I'd still rather have Hammernators, generally) which I don't really have the points for in lower games.

[minionboy]

Right now I'm leaning towards a unit of 5, all with Combi-plasmas, 4 power axes and a chain fist. 196 points and it can really put the hurt on an enemy unit, the Chainfist is there just incase of running into a walker, tank or monstrous creature. For 211 points you can give them Veterans of the Long War if that's your thing.

[Sception]

It is my thing, although the pricing on it makes me bitter. The units I don't even think are all that great, that I want to take largely for fluff reasons (terminators, chosen, as opposed to the CSMs, bikes, & havoks that I take more for gameplay effect), have to pay extra points for it, making them even more inefficient if I want to stick to my theme with them. It's frustrating, especially when I don't think there's one unit that can take it that wouldn't have been perfectly fair if they just had it built in for free, with the exception of the already underpriced bikes.

[Brother Amarel]

Right now I'm leaning towards a unit of 5, all with Combi-plasmas, 4 power axes and a chain fist. 196 points and it can really put the hurt on an enemy unit, the Chainfist is there just incase of running into a walker, tank or monstrous creature. For 211 points you can give them Veterans of the Long War if that's your thing.

I used to use 5, but found that adding a couple more exponentially increased their power and threat by more than the sum of just those extra models. That said, sub 200pts is a much easier pill to swallow if you're adding a component to a list, rather than building around them.

[diabloelmo]

I'm going to be trying something a bit out of the left field in the new year, as I've been having horrid luck with my Night Lords lately. (One single game won TOTAL since the new 'dex came out)

 

4 termies w/ reaper & chainfist, two combi-meltas & claws, champ fist/claw.

They are there primarily to act as a retinue for:

Lord w/ burning brand of skalathrax & claw in termie armour.

 

I currently have not got them marked in an attempt to keep them as cheap as possible. The unit is designed to deepstrike somewhere in the backfield and have fun hosing down heavy weapon squads and punching tanks, and possibly chewing up objective-holding troops in melee. Total of 363pts for the unit total, which they should be able to make back in most games. Sure they would not do well against a dedicated melee deathstar, but if such a unit is aimed back at the termies then they are not pointed at my own backfield. I've got a fair chunk of mobility in the rest of the list, so they can also act as an anvil unit for my Raptors or bikes.