1000 Greenwing - unique and effective!

[rover]

So as awkward as it may sound I find this Greenwing particulary effective against most armies :)

 

Tactical Squads stay in Rhinos and shoot Plasma Cannons from max range . Typhoons stay at max range and shoot missiles as well. Librarian joins Devastators and casts Prescience on them (4x ML which can be rerolled yay!) and uses Quad Gun. This gives 8 Missile Shots,2 Plasma Cannon shots and 4 Quad-Gun shots at 1000 with effective range of 36-48". 4 ML shots and 4 Quad Gun shots have rerolls. Not many armies can compete with that and everyone just think about rushing my positions.

 

The funny part is that basically before they are within 18"-24" range to shot anything my Rhinos rush in and Tactical Squads disembark to Rapid Fire incoming units. This it the time to start shooting Multi-Meltas from Speeders as well. Any kind of Deep Striking units get vaporized becouse they are mostly separated from the army core (not many reserves at 1000 points). The list has effective anti air defence and is quite durable vs AP2 and AP3 shots (Go to ground for 2+ cover anyone?). Rhinos start behind Aegis Line as well. With good positioning of the Aegis line (angle vs Devastator's line is important) for Rhinos it's very easy to manouver around it and enemy is not able to benefit from it even if he reaches it. When it gets bad Tacticals can disembark and shot from behind Aegis as well. It's cool because any charges against my units are resolved with I1 so I get a lot of free shooting and mostly strike first.

 

Librarian with Divination is another strong point of this list. I know it sounds wierd and noone plays with them but it's all about the strategy. Presciense is great on Devs and any other Power from Divination helps (Counter attack and full ballistic skill overwatch anyone? Ignore Cover anyone?). It's important to position him well though. If you set up Aegis line with Quad Gun very deep (i.e 2-3" from your own table edge) to gain more range it's important that Libby joins Devastators. They get Fearless then and wont flee of the table in case 2 of Devastators dies and you fail morale check. It makes them unable to Go To Ground though so you only have default 4+ cover safe (and 3+ armor save of course). You have to align to what your opponent has. A lot of Las/Plas and your opponent starting typically means that Libby should stay back so you can lie low wth Devs if needed.

 

Another funny point is that this list is very cost effective. In comparison to Codex: Space Marines it's only 10 points more expensive (sic!) but C:SM can't properly use it because their libby doesn't have access to Divination. So basically I found it quite unique and fun :)

 

 

 

1000 Pts - Dark Angels Army

 

1 Librarian (HQ) @ 120 Pts

 

 

Tactical Squad (Troops) @ 230 Pts

Plasma Cannon

Plasma Gun

Rhino

 

Tactical Squad (Troops) @ 230 Pts

Plasma Cannon

Plasma Gun

Rhino

 

Ravenwing Support Squadron (Fast Attack) @ 75 Pts

Multi-Melta

Typhoon Missile

 

Ravenwing Support Squadron (Fast Attack) @ 75 Pts

Multi-Melta

Typhoon Missile

 

Devastator Squad (Heavy Support) @ 170 Pts

Missile Launcher (x4)

 

Aegis Defense Line (Fortification) @ 100 Pts

Quad Gun

[Isiah]

Some really great observations there rover :yes:. I'm gonna move this to the main part of the forum because it contains some really useful stuff on [general] greenwing tactics - and isn't an army list topic as such.

 

Cheers

I

[facmanpob]

I think the key to this list are the Typhoons. They have a huge potential damage output compared with their cost, but they need protecting. But yeah, its nice to see Greenwing being talked aobut! ;)

[Brother Immolator]

I like it! Too many pies of doom are a good thing. Have you faced any AV14 though? You would want to have those meltas in range to deal with those and speeders are a bit fragile.

 

EDIT: And that happens when you cant distinct between multi melta and melta gun ranges, because you never use them. So yeah... Ignore the AV comment.

[notmattlythgoe]

I recently had a 2v2 battle of 2 DA vs a Tau and a Cron army, 1k points per person. I took 3 squads of DW and my partner took a dev squad and a couple squads of bikes. A list like you posted would have worked very well because all the did was turtle since they ended up with higher value objectives on their side of the board and we had to play offensive. I was thinking something like

 

Company Master

2x tac squads w/ PG and PC in rhinos

1x tac squad w/ PG and PC

2x Whirlwinds

1x LS Typhoon.

 

If they turtle up you just drop multiple whirlwind shots on them all game, move the typhoon around for some shots, and set up some firing lanes, they either stay and and try to survive the whirlwind shots or step out into your firing lanes.

[rover]

I’m glad that this topic found some interest among other DA Brothers.

 

I agree that Typhoons are key to this strategy and yeah they usually are one of the most fragile units on the table. Using Rhinos/Rzarozbacks and terrain to block LoS on them is vital.

 

Actually I would rather use them with Heavy Bolters and chillout at 36-48” but I need something against AV14. I think that Typhoon + MM combo sucks for most armies because you really need to overextend the Speeders to shoot. In this strategy however most opponents will have to come to you which makes it so much easier to melt them with MM. It’s especially effective against transports as most people think you will stay back and shoot from a distance. Suddenly you move 12” with a Rhino to block LoS, hop in with a Speeder and BAM!. Some valuable CC unit has to go move on foot from now on :)

 

I’ll be using this list in my hobby store league so I hope to test it in an environment a bit more competitive then our Friday Whiskyhammer 40k battles :)

[Brother Immolator]

Problem I see is the one I have used against my enemies in the old days of my gaming. Lascannons.

Too many inches difference. Apparently size...erhm....range does matter.

[rover]

Company Master

2x tac squads w/ PG and PC in rhinos

1x tac squad w/ PG and PC

2x Whirlwinds

1x LS Typhoon.

 

Imo Librarian is much better then Company Master. Company Master gives additional wound and a 4++ but Librarian adds some game changing powers to the bucket. I playtested both characters and Divination is priceless when you consider how old our codex is.

[notmattlythgoe]

Company Master

2x tac squads w/ PG and PC in rhinos

1x tac squad w/ PG and PC

2x Whirlwinds

1x LS Typhoon.

 

Imo Librarian is much better then Company Master. Company Master gives additional wound and a 4++ but Librarian adds some game changing powers to the bucket. I playtested both characters and Divination is priceless when you consider how old our codex is.

 

Where would you drop the additional 20 points then?

[rover]

It depends if you want to shoot from afar (36”+) or be more aggressive (20-24”). But keeping a Company Master naked (no Power Weapon and/or Combi-Weapon) is one of the worst solutions out there. But again, it’s not about the list but about the idea behind it. My friend told me once that even the most sh..ty list can win a game if you know what you want to do and execute it properly.

 

 

I see at least two options to include a libby in your list but they depends on a playstyle you want.

 

1.Very shooty

- Replace one Whirlwind with additional LS Typhoon (+10 points) and replace two Plasma Cannons (guys in Rhinos) with two Missile Launchers (+10 points). Or instead of PCs replace 1 Plasma Gun with a Flamer (+10 points). You get +20 points for a Libby no matter which option you choose. Keep Librarian with PG+PC squad so they can reroll plasma shoots if needed. Keep your force close to maximize your Rapid Fire potential. Focus on one target at a time. Try to keep everyone on a maximum distance (36” inches) and wait for your opponent to come. Once they are at 30” move forward 6” and let them say hello to all your bolters. If your opponent is really aggressive and you expect him to rush in. Wait untill you can Rapid Fire him with everything you've got before you bail out of Rhinos. If your opponent is more shooty at 36” then you (unlikely at 1000 points) you should move forward asap and engage him at 24” or at 12”. But remember to keep Speeders safe.

 

 

2. Mid range pownage

- Replace both Whirlwinds and a Typhoon (-245 points) with two Vindicators (+250 points). You then get two STR10 AP2 Large Blasts for MEQs and TEQs so you don’t need so many plasma weapons. This will punish any horde blob as well.

- Replace 3 Plasma Cannons with 3 Missile Launchers (+15). You avoid Gets Got! accidents and still have a puch.

- Replace 2 Plasma Guns in Rhino Squads with Melta Guns (+10).

- With the changes above you get exactly +20 points to get a Librarian.

 

You keep your Librarian with a PG&ML Squad on foot. You Combat Squad both Tactical Squads in Rhinos but put 10 man in there so you can hop out with 5 man Melta Gun squad if needed . If you keep your force close you can easily punish any approaching infantry with 20 men Rapid Fire action (10 Tacicals on foot + 2x5 Meltaguns Squads from Rhinos) or any approaching vehicle with 2x Melta Gun shot with MLs on top of that. You then can keep Heavy Bolters on your Speeders which is quite cool. But you wont have to worry about them because all your opponents will see only your Vindicators on a table :)

 

Double Vindicator list just owns 1000 points. No matter if you are DA, BA or C:SM :P I'd use it myself but it often ruins your opponents good mood (and I'm a friendly type in the end of a day!) and I don't like mechanized rosters ;)

[notmattlythgoe]

Thanks for the input. I'll play around with both of them.

[notmattlythgoe]

What about

 

Liby

2x 5 man tac squads with meltas and razorbacks

1x 10 man tac squad with flamer and ML

2x vindicator

2x typhoon

[rover]

What about

 

Liby

2x 5 man tac squads with meltas and razorbacks

1x 10 man tac squad with flamer and ML

2x vindicator

2x typhoon

 

What's mounted on Typhoons? HB or MM? I'd put MM in this configuration to get extra protection for Vindicators and some AT punch. You wouldn't need Meltaguns in Combat Squads then. Your Combat squads seems like a suiscidal units what is something you can’t afford with only 20 wounds accross the board. Besides our list is overpriced even without taking 5 men squads ;)

 

First thing to note is that your Tactical Squads with Razorbacks cost 480 points. You really need to think about maximizing your potential (which is poor considering our codex). Check this out:

 

1x10 Tactical Squad @ 240

Plasma Gun/Missile Launcher/Razorback

 

1x10 Tactical Squad @ 240

Plasma Gun/Missile Launcher/Razorback

 

 

For same points you can replace melta guns (you have much better MM on Speeders) with plasma guns and you get a free ML on top of that. Remember that your opponent will most likely focus on your Vindicators so you really need to make him feel the pain before he manages to destroy them. Razorbacks should be a nice line of sight blockers so protecting side armor of Vindies should be easy.

[Brother Immolator]

Indeed melta guns are too short range and replacing plasma guns for them you bet on an off chance to use them due to limited range as to a plasma gun which will fire almost every turn. Plus there are multi meltas on the speeders whats the purpose of having more?

 

Also if you replace the PC with missile launchers you are getting safer yes, but you diminish even further the anti/ tank capability of the list. Plasma cannons can harm armor too.

 

EDIT Sorry for the MM comment I didn't notice that you haven't seen it.

[warsmith]

Rover, this list and idea behind it seem very solid and may infact pull me back to sorting out my unforgiven forces before anything else....I'm already thinking about custom built/cast unforgiven aegis lines.

 

One question I have is how scalable is this list/premise....other than the devestators and aegis lines all the models in the list are in my 1500 point list anyway, but I'm interested to know how you think this list might work at larger and smaller points values. What do you think the smallest value it might work at would be?

 

Regards

 

Dan

[rover]

The list was designed for a campaign where I need 750, 1000 and 1500.

 

 

I found this particular list very effective at 750:

 

1 Librarian (HQ)

 

Tactical Squad (Troops)

Plasma Cannon

Flamer

Razorback + SB

 

Tactical Squad (Troops) @ 230 Pts

Plasma Cannon

Flamer

Razorback + SB

 

Ravenwing Support Squadron (Fast Attack)

Multi-Melta

Typhoon Missile

 

Ravenwing Support Squadron (Fast Attack)

Multi-Melta

Typhoon Missile

 

It excludes Aegis and Devastators because the lower the points the more painfull point cost for Devs is (DA codex yay!). Another thing is that we have mainly horde armies in our campaign and without those 4 ML shots I use flamers and Razorbacks as a mobile fire support.

 

At 1500 points this cost is not such painfull however so I plan to just expand the list by 500 points. I haven’t tested it yet but I think that Ravenwing Attack Squad and a Terminator Squad (2xTH+SS+1xAC+CF) should be quite nice addition to the list or you can simply put 5xTH+SS+CML squad to a Land Raider which should have a lot of hitting power as well. Boths setups are quite flexible and mobile so should work well with a Greenwing. Besides it's fluffy and fun to play :D

[Brother Landrain]

Here is an interesting unit that you can add to an army that keeps with the original theme...

This is only doable with our interesting techmarine alotment.

 

 

Techmarine

Servitor with PC

Servitor with PC

Rhino + Pintle Storm Bolter

 

Cost- 185 pts

 

It is not scoring but has a lot more firepower han the Tactical squad while mounted.

A further advantage is that the Techmarine can repair an restore hull points as needed.

Further advantage... No FOC slot.

[warsmith]

The list was designed for a campaign where I need 750, 1000 and 1500.

 

 

I found this particular list very effective at 750:

 

1 Librarian (HQ)

 

Tactical Squad (Troops)

Plasma Cannon

Flamer

Razorback + SB

 

Tactical Squad (Troops) @ 230 Pts

Plasma Cannon

Flamer

Razorback + SB

 

Ravenwing Support Squadron (Fast Attack)

Multi-Melta

Typhoon Missile

 

Ravenwing Support Squadron (Fast Attack)

Multi-Melta

Typhoon Missile

 

Thats actually very close to a few of the idea's I'd had previously for a 600 point list and is in fact very similar to the idea's I had for progession to 750. I'm glad to see that I wasn't alone in my ideas. Heading on to 1500 I'd decided on a couple of dreadnoughts, a couple of predators and a third tactical squad - though the idea of the aegis and devestators is making me rethink this plan.

 

Here is an interesting unit that you can add to an army that keeps with the original theme...

This is only doable with our interesting techmarine alotment.

 

 

Techmarine

Servitor with PC

Servitor with PC

Rhino + Pintle Storm Bolter

 

Cost- 185 pts

 

It is not scoring but has a lot more firepower han the Tactical squad while mounted.

A further advantage is that the Techmarine can repair an restore hull points as needed.

Further advantage... No FOC slot.

 

I could be completely wrong with this having not played 6th ed yet, nor read the book in any great depth, but in 5th ed wasn't there a caveat that meant that if a unit was all (or perhaps 50% or more) in power armour thatthe rhino didn't count as open topped? Did that rule translate into 6th, if it did would that not mean that the rhino with the servitors would count as open topped and therefore be a little bit more vulnerable?

 

As I said, could be very wrong with that but its the first thought that jumped to mind when I read the above post.

 

Dan

[Brother Landrain]

Here is an interesting unit that you can add to an army that keeps with the original theme...

This is only doable with our interesting techmarine alotment.

 

 

Techmarine

Servitor with PC

Servitor with PC

Rhino + Pintle Storm Bolter

 

Cost- 185 pts

 

It is not scoring but has a lot more firepower han the Tactical squad while mounted.

A further advantage is that the Techmarine can repair an restore hull points as needed.

Further advantage... No FOC slot.

 

I could be completely wrong with this having not played 6th ed yet, nor read the book in any great depth, but in 5th ed wasn't there a caveat that meant that if a unit was all (or perhaps 50% or more) in power armour thatthe rhino didn't count as open topped? Did that rule translate into 6th, if it did would that not mean that the rhino with the servitors would count as open topped and therefore be a little bit more vulnerable?

 

As I said, could be very wrong with that but its the first thought that jumped to mind when I read the above post.

 

Dan

 

The Rhino is a Tank, with a Hatch on top, allowing two models to fire from the top hatch.

There is no open topped ruled for a Rhino.

[Azoriel]

You're thinking 4th Edition - at the time, there was a rule that any vehicle using its top hatch as a firing point counted as open-topped if the save of any passenger was less than +3. (The rule actually started in 3rd Edition, but didn't make the BBB until the next edition.) But all that went away with 5th.

[notmattlythgoe]

What about

 

Liby

2x 5 man tac squads with meltas and razorbacks

1x 10 man tac squad with flamer and ML

2x vindicator

2x typhoon

 

What's mounted on Typhoons? HB or MM? I'd put MM in this configuration to get extra protection for Vindicators and some AT punch. You wouldn't need Meltaguns in Combat Squads then. Your Combat squads seems like a suiscidal units what is something you can’t afford with only 20 wounds accross the board. Besides our list is overpriced even without taking 5 men squads <_<

 

First thing to note is that your Tactical Squads with Razorbacks cost 480 points. You really need to think about maximizing your potential (which is poor considering our codex). Check this out:

 

1x10 Tactical Squad @ 240

Plasma Gun/Missile Launcher/Razorback

 

1x10 Tactical Squad @ 240

Plasma Gun/Missile Launcher/Razorback

 

 

For same points you can replace melta guns (you have much better MM on Speeders) with plasma guns and you get a free ML on top of that. Remember that your opponent will most likely focus on your Vindicators so you really need to make him feel the pain before he manages to destroy them. Razorbacks should be a nice line of sight blockers so protecting side armor of Vindies should be easy.

 

 

I have to ask, where are you getting 480 for the 5 man razorback squads? It's only 280.

[MadMek83]

Greenwing is nothing to sneeze over about. My humble 10 man tactical with interrigator-chaplain with 4 plasma weapons (two plasma pistols, plasma gun and plasma cannon) wrecked my friends BT rhino, killed two neophytes in single good plasma cannon shot in 1st turn. And during 5 turns I lost 9 tacticals but my tacticals killed: 5 neophytes, 2 regular black templars and survived and annhilated my friends BT 3 bike charge and 4 hammernators who charged.

 

I like OP's list very much and when I expand my own humble Green Wing, I will use that as basis, but get more plasma, less missiles, less rhinos and my big mean Interrigator Chappy offering repentance with his power maul!! Makes it more like fluffy and more like cover art of codex. There's no libby, there's chaplain! I like playing rather fluff like with my troops.

[warsmith]

You're thinking 4th Edition - at the time, there was a rule that any vehicle using its top hatch as a firing point counted as open-topped if the save of any passenger was less than +3. (The rule actually started in 3rd Edition, but didn't make the BBB until the next edition.) But all that went away with 5th.

 

I thought I was likely to be wrong in that.....not even played 6th yet and its been a long time since I last played 5th (infact its been over a year now since I last rolled dice in anger.....living in the middle of nowhere in south east england with no job and nothing other than public transport sucks!)

 

I like OP's list very much and when I expand my own humble Green Wing, I will use that as basis, but get more plasma, less missiles, less rhinos and my big mean Interrigator Chappy offering repentance with his power maul!! Makes it more like fluffy and more like cover art of codex. There's no libby, there's chaplain! I like playing rather fluff like with my troops.

 

I agree on the more plasma front - definately swap the missiles on the devestator squad out for more plasma weapons. In 1500+ games a thrid tactical squad, maybe a second devestator squad (possibly both dev's at 10 men?) in razorbacks perhaps? Thinking about it combat squadding the 10 man devestators and giving them access to Razorbacks could be a good idea in the missions where Heavy Support units become scoring.....you'd have the equivalent of a naked tactical squad to use for objective taking.

 

Dan