Clarifications and advice?

[Brother Cyrrus]

Ok, I've been bumbling about sort of half-forming and reforming and second guessing and toying with a DIY Chapter for a long time. I have a few questions that I've been pondering and I come to you all for help.

 

My current idea was a Chapter founded possibly during the Age of Apostasy. First, were there foundings during the AoA? Because in that case I would suppose that the Ecclesiarchy, being in power, would have a significant hand in molding new SM Chapters. In addition to that, what does it take to found a new Chapter? Is it something that gets officially decided to found a batch of Chapters, or can it be petitioned by a ranking member of an existing Chapter to found something new?

 

Second, as Chapters go, excluding the Blood Ravens is it at all feasible canonically to have a Chapter that seeks out psykers to join their Librarium and perhaps keeps a higher than normal psyker presence in their linked IG? Or is the stigma of psykers so intense that it would be stupidly rare for a Chapter to do something like that? Because part of my idea involved a Chapter whose Master was also Chief Librarian, and a cultural focus partly on psykers being links directly to the Emperor...so that the psykers deemed too weak for any training at all are sent to Terra to feed the Emperor.

 

Thirdly, as this links back to a Chapter approved for founding by the Ecclesiarchy heavy Age of Apostasy, would it be absurd to have a SM Chapter that is part of the Imperial Cult? I mean, in my opinion it is pretty hard even for space marines at this point to deny that there is at least SOMETHING extra-ordinary about the Emperor, if not just admitting him as a god outright. So, by extension, it makes sense to me that a Chapter who worships the Emperor might also revere the loyal Primarchs as true saints as they are the direct genetic offspring of the Emperor. This idea then leads to more frequent alliances with the Sisters of Battle, but perhaps some strained relations with other Chapters who find their devotion a bit much.

 

In the end I saw a Chapter that devoted itself whole-heartedly to the Emperor and his will and modelling itself after the Virtues of the Primarchs. In turn they would be slightly divergent as per the Codex, each company being devoted to a specific Primarch with their HQ striving for perfection to best emulate their Emperor. This would leak down into one Company being, for example, perhaps all assault marines and modelling them on the Sanguinary Guard of the Blood Angels, where another company is all Scouts who've taken tactical advice from the Raven Guard. Each Marine, after their neophyte training, would take a multi-year tour with another chapter or something to experience their philosophies. For the HQ and large number of Librarians it would be again a link to the Emperor being the most powerful psyker in the galaxy and seeing the psyker mutation as a gift, as a connection with the God-Emperor, instead of a mutation that must be watched like a starving Caliban lion. Not that they aren't careful about psykers, just that they don't have the same fear/prejudice that permeates the Imperium.

 

Also, being more devout in nature, how would it seem to be much more monastic as well? Perhaps these marines have asked themselves what happens when there is no war and in turn devote a portion of their day towards more civically minded works on their homeworld? Maybe in rotating shifts throughout their daily training they spend a couple hours aiding the locals with farming, or overseeing new construction, seeing their burden as more than the mere protection of humanity, but the uplifting of it as well.

 

In less fluff-related questions, is there a particular etiquette when it comes to how to represent the Chapter rules-wise on the table? For example, if they were an Imperial Fists successor then would it be out of place to use the Dark Angels codex to represent the army or something? And on modelling is it considered a no-no to use some Chapter specific bits on a non-successor Chapter? I was thinking how cool those Sanguinary Guard wings look, but don't know that I want to try and make this chapter a Blood Angels successor for example. And I think finally, as colors go...I was thinking white armor with a colored robe/tabard. But to show their brother-Chapter respect while they tour with them they would have a band of the Chapters color across their robe/tabard. Cant decide if that's too small of a detail to bother with, or how to incorporate it without color issues unless I use a color for their robe that ISN'T a basic legion color...like purple. None of the Loyalist legions are represented by purple. But two Loyalists are represented by green, both dark and bright.

 

 

I think that concludes my questions...any advice would be much appreciated. I like to have a clean, canon-possible idea in my head.

[Messor]

Eesh, das a lot of questions. Yes there were foundings during the age of apostasy. There were also a lot of foundings during that millenium, so if you pin a few dates down you can find which were during the AoA, and among those foundings were the Dark 13th and the Cursed 21st.

 

Here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...p;#entry1520507

 

That's probably about everything you need to know about the in and out's of DIY building and how a Chapter is founded. There is one definite precedent for a Chapter being created at the request of an Astartes Leader, which was the Dark Angels Chapter Master. Only precedent I know of. But I don't think there's any reason you can't have a high concentration of Librarians/psykers. Even the sort of knightly aiding of the locals is no big deal.

 

There are, if I'm not mistaken, multiple Chapters who believe the Emperor to be a god, though they're rare. I'm working on one right now XD. I don't know much about imperial saints or the cult though, so I can't help as much in that regard.

 

All in all though, it looks like you've got quite a workable idea rolling, looking forward to more!

[Brother Tyler]

Correction - the 21st (Cursed) Founding took place before the Age of Apostasy while the 23rd (Sentinel) took place in M37, after the Age of Apostasy. The time frame of the 22nd Founding is unknown, and I don't know of any official Chapters that were part of that founding. So that leaves only the 22nd Founding as possibly having taken place during the Age of Apostasy.

 

In addition to the Blood Ravens, the Fire Claws/Relictors and Blood Angels are known to have more Librarians than normal in their ranks. Only the Blood Ravens are known to have Librarians as Chapter Master, however, and their usage of Librarians in such leadership roles is both unknown to others and likely considered to be a significant breach of the Codex Astartes (as indicated in the Blood Ravens Index Astartes article).

 

There is at least one official Chapter that subscribes to the Imperial Cult (the Fire Angels). This is considered unusual, but sets a precedent for others.

 

I think an inconsistency you're going to run into, though, is that the Imperial Cult does not look favorably upon psykers (despite the Emperor being a potent psyker). While psykers are essential to the Imperium's continued existence, they are looked upon with suspicion and used as tools rather than being elevated on a pedestal. I would see a more likely solution being a Chapter whose warrior cult focuses on the Emperor and recognizes his psyker nature, holding other psykers in respect and allowing those within their ranks to ascend to positions of power unheard of in most other Chapters.

 

On your last question, while background is nice and all, the "etiquette" really only concerns the rules. There is nothing wrong with using bits meant for certain Chapters in representing models from other Chapters. For instance, the Chapter badge of the Black Templars is shared with the Imperial Paladins Chapter (decidedly Codex). Likewise, the fist Chapter badge is used by a number of Chapters other than the Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists. As long as you army is internally consistent and your opponent knows what codex you're using, there should be no problem.

 

Just remember that there are lots of opinions and prevailing "conventional wisdom" around here. By and large it is offered in a helpful manner, but there are times when some of the "conventional wisdom" is suspect. Some of it is nothing more than interpretation and opinion, often speculative in nature without much in the way of real facts to back it up. Take the advice for what it is worth, but don't feel constrained to follow it if you either disagree with it or if you have your heart set on doing something else. The discussion linked above is very good, but there are a few bits that are no longer accurate based on updates to the official game lore, and a few others that are highly subjective in nature.

[Wulfebane]

I think an inconsistency you're going to run into, though, is that the Imperial Cult does not look favorably upon psykers (despite the Emperor being a potent psyker). While psykers are essential to the Imperium's continued existence, they are looked upon with suspicion and used as tools rather than being elevated on a pedestal.

 

Not the case with Space Wolves. Their Rune Priests are revered as elder sages. Then again, SWs don't believe their psychic abilities are warp-born.

 

I would see a more likely solution being a Chapter whose warrior cult focuses on the Emperor and recognizes his psyker nature, holding other psykers in respect and allowing those within their ranks to ascend to positions of power unheard of in most other Chapters.

 

Dat psyker.

 

On bits, imo if it doesn't say Blood Angels, Grey Knights, Space Kittens, etc etc, then it is ambiguous enough for anyone to use. I can easily see those winged shoulderpads used by chapters like Blood Ravens or even UM sternguard.

[Messor]

Correction - the 21st (Cursed) Founding took place before the Age of Apostasy while the 23rd (Sentinel) took place in M37, after the Age of Apostasy. The time frame of the 22nd Founding is unknown, and I don't know of any official Chapters that were part of that founding. So that leaves only the 22nd Founding as possibly having taken place during the Age of Apostasy.

 

Right, I wasn't clear on when the Age of Apostasy occurred other than 'in M36', so I just bracketed all the foundings in M36 and hoped the Lexicanum was accurate. Now looking at the entry for the 21st I see where it is noted that it was before the Age of Apostasy. Cleared up a mystery for me there, too XD

[Brother Cyrrus]

Well this is definitely comforting to hear that what I was thinking is viable. I was seeing this as a Chapter that would probably have wound up against the Ecclesiarchy by the end of the Age of Apostasy, even though the Ecclesiarchy helped them form...during the 22nd founding sounds most likely? From that I figured they would form a stronger bond with the "new" Adepta Sororitas and likely ally with them more frequently than other standard Chapters might. Partly for their engineering skill and tendency towards penance (and I like the little bit of lore I've read involving the painglove) I was seeing them as an Imperial Fists successor, focusing on a little thing I remember from a Horus Heresy novel I was thinking "Imperial Angels" or the "Emperor's Angels" would be appropriate. Focusing on the angelic theme, with power swords and force spears for the Librarians and stuff...can't decide if flamers, plasma, or meltas sound better. I've always been partial to the look and feel of plasma weaponry, though.

[Brother Cyrrus]

New question. I see that Chaplains of other Chapters often take other duties such as Apothecary or Techmarine, but could a Librarian double as a Chaplain for fluff purposes while maintaining a Reclusiarch and Master of Sanctity who aren't? Or perhaps vice versa with Librarians filling the roles of Reclusiarch and MoS and non-psykers as standard Chaplains? Could a Chapter live on Librarian-Chaplains and not have any formally trained or recognized Chaplains? How much does the Ecclesiarchy really care about SM Chaplains if the Chapter is already fairly devout to the Imperial Cult?