Aspiring champions

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I'm painting a test model for a unit of sons of Horus to add to my thousand sons, at the moment he has a lightning claw, but no left arm or other weapon, I have a couple of bolt pistols, and can't find the metal combi plasma arm I was going to orignally use, so it has got me thinking about what to give him, and any other asp. champions I may have if I get any other chaos marine squads.

As a long time thousand sons player, the idea of actually having options beyond melta bombs is nice. I could convert each of the combi weapons, and have a couple of both pistols, also have spare power weapons/power fists, so could always have him running with a lightning claw and fist, they are bothe specialist weapons :)

[sp4rky]

I run all of my CSM squad Champions with Power Sword and Plasma Pistol. Where I play most people still have Fists on their sergeants so killing them at initiative 4 is very handy. Plus there's something quite cool about rolling a 6 to hit with a Plasma Pistol, killing the enemy champion, rolling on the boon table and then charging in to combat where your power sword armed sergeant can concentrate on killing a squad instead of faffing around with an enemy character.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Must admit I do love my plasma, originally he would have had a combi plasma, as I must admit I am not to eager on the price of the plasma pistol as these guys will be usually sticking on a home objective, possibly manning an aegis with icarus, but also just hiding out in the ruins as well.

I must admit I like the idea of a power fist and lightning claw, both are specialist weapons, and they mean he can take on anything, including my mates terminator lords :tu:

[Lepaca]

Never use plasma pistols. Ever.

 

Otherwise it depends on what your unit is supposed to do.

For your standard CSM unit I would advise against spending more than the bare minimum of points on the unit champions as you won't get much use out of those points.

[sp4rky]

Never use plasma pistols. Ever.

 

... because?

[Kol Saresk]

To save points. Some people think 15 points for a pistol is too much. I'n a little inclined to agree due to the fact that the regular plasma gun is the same price. Now if it was reduced to like 5 points, everyone and their dog would be using them to keep up with the plasma spam.

 

EDIT: Although from a fluff perspective, I get it because plasma weaponry is supposed to be this über-rare technology, which was it was so notable for the Dark Angels to have so much. My line of thinking is reserve it for HQ and any Champions you deem necessary, like in Elite Squads or Troop Squads that are running with little to no support.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I'll see if I the spare pts, the problem for me is it is 15pts that will proberbly only get about 2-3 shots on average in a game of 5-7 turns.

The sheer power, plus their coolness however, is a good argument. Edit: The claw and fist combo looks cool as well :tu:

[Lepaca]

Never use plasma pistols. Ever.

 

... because?

 

Good article on the topic. :P

[sp4rky]

hahaha that's awesome.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

really wishing I had a drill bit so I could pin multiple arms, and I actually went into my lgs this morning as well :D

[Urauloth]

Good article on the topic. :D

 

Yep. Plasma pistols are really, really horrid.

[wargame insomniac]

Not been tempted to take Plasma Pistols because of the cost. At some point I will have to chop up many of my AC's to take of their Plasma Pistols to save some points. The only time I would consider it would be for AC for Noise Marine squad, but that is just down to poor entry of the Noise Champion entry.

 

I like the idea of Power Fist lus Lightning Claw combo but I think too expensive unless on Chosen where get extra attacks. Especially Chosen with MoK.

 

Before today I was planning on going mainly with Power Swords. But after today's game I am going to mix in a few more Power Fists.

[RapatoR]

I like the idea of Power Fist lus Lightning Claw combo but I think too expensive unless on Chosen where get extra attacks. Especially Chosen with MoK.

Well it gets extra attacks on everyone as they are both specialist weapons. Anyway if you think that is too costy combo, you can always try axe with power sword or any other power weapon combo.

[tvih]

Eh... PF+LC or any other two power weapons on a single-wound model is pretty much madness. Looks great modeling-wise, but too easy to kill especially in a challenge.

[Kol Saresk]

Especially since it's the weaker of the two that can only strike at Initiative.

[Brother Ambroz]

The only time I might consider both PF ans LC is on a MoS unit. That way they'd at least have a good chance of killing their target.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Just found the plasma gun I was originally going to use, so how do people think of Bolt pisotl, combi plasma and lightning claw?

[Lepaca]

Just found the plasma gun I was originally going to use, so how do people think of Bolt pisotl, combi plasma and lightning claw?

 

That means spending 25 extra points on a 1W model that costs 23 points by itself. That is a big point investment that most likely won't do much.

 

I can see some use for the combi-plasma in a squad that already has 2 plasma guns but even that isn't really optimal.

Yes it will give you 1 turn of extra plasma fire power but it costs only 5 points less than a regular PG and carries the risk of blowing up your chamipon. So I'd vote no.

 

The lightning claw on the other hand makes no sense at all IMO. 2 S4 AP3 Shred attacks are not worth that many points especially if you will most likely end up in a challenge and die.

 

It is really ironic that the emphasis on CC/duels that GW tried to push with this codex really forces us to minimalize costs on our squad champions and therefore makes us bad at challenges. :D

[Kol Saresk]

The only time I might consider both PF ans LC is on a MoS unit. That way they'd at least have a good chance of killing their target.

Wouldn't the PF still be Initiative 1 because of Unwieldy? Or can modifiers be added after Unwieldy?

[Brother Ambroz]

Yes it would still be Initiative 1 Kol but you could choose which to use. So say a 3+ character he'd likely get a wound or two on because of the LC and his 5 initiative. He could then use a PF if he was facing 2+ but if the 2+ guy had a AP 3 weapon then I'd be SOL so I take that back. LC or PS only for my 3+ champs.

[Excessus]

The only time I might consider both PF ans LC is on a MoS unit. That way they'd at least have a good chance of killing their target.

Wouldn't the PF still be Initiative 1 because of Unwieldy? Or can modifiers be added after Unwieldy?

It would still hit at I1. Personally I'd put axes&fists on plague champions, since they have I3 anyway and most marines will hit before them in a challenge...and they actually have a decent shot at surviving a challenge thanks to their high toughness, def. grenades and FnP. Unluckily for them though, they have to switch their bolt pistol with a cc weapon since they have no "close combat weapon" to switch out...

[Minsc]

CSM Champs: Powersword and possibly Meltabombs.

Cultist Champs: Nothing.

Noise Marine Champs: Powersword and Doomsiren.

Plague Marine Champs: Nothing, possibly Meltabombs.

Berzerker Champs: Powersword and possibly Meltabombs.

 

Raptor Champs: Powersword, possibly Meltabombs.

Biker Champ: Powersword, possibly Meltabombs.

 

Possessed/Warptalon/Havoc Champs: Nothing.

Terminator and Chosen Champs depends on what the rest of the unit carries.

 

Some of my champions on occasion bear the Icon as well. It has it up's (Get Lo:S, harder to Barrage-snipe, 1 less important model to worry about) and down's (Forced challenges, if the champ dies, then twice the impact.).

 

As noted, I'm no big fan of neither Gift of Mutation (costs to much on champions) nor Powerfists (changed meta -> less vehicles, and forced challenge sucks even more if you strike at I1.)

[wargame insomniac]

The only time I might consider both PF ans LC is on a MoS unit. That way they'd at least have a good chance of killing their target.

Wouldn't the PF still be Initiative 1 because of Unwieldy? Or can modifiers be added after Unwieldy?

It would still hit at I1. Personally I'd put axes&fists on plague champions, since they have I3 anyway and most marines will hit before them in a challenge...and they actually have a decent shot at surviving a challenge thanks to their high toughness, def. grenades and FnP. Unluckily for them though, they have to switch their bolt pistol with a cc weapon since they have no "close combat weapon" to switch out...

I thought it was more that had the choice WHICH weapon to use:

 

Vs 2+ armour: hope to survive until I1 and attack with PF (getting +1 attack because both are Specialist Weapons)

 

vs 3+ armour: strike first at I5 attacking with LC (getting +1 attack because both are Specialist Weapons)

 

But expensive option. Probably for HQ.

Maybe for Chosen AC with MoS (for I5 and FNP) or MoK (for extra attacks and Furious Charge)

[Kol Saresk]

Yes it would still be Initiative 1 Kol but you could choose which to use. So say a 3+ character he'd likely get a wound or two on because of the LC and his 5 initiative. He could then use a PF if he was facing 2+ but if the 2+ guy had a AP 3 weapon then I'd be SOL so I take that back. LC or PS only for my 3+ champs.

Okay, I just misunderstood what you said,

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I put the lightining claw on him as I thought it looked cool, plus it's the same pts cost as the power sword, yet a bit better agaisnt non 3+ targets due to shred, so what would be the best thing to put on, as even with everything so far, I'm not sure. :P