What is a Chaos Lord of Tzeentch?

[Julgolax]

Tzeentch is the dark god of change, mutation, sorcerery, hope, scheming, and prescience. Those who turn to Tzeentch, space marines in particular, are gifted with protection from the warp, uncanny knowledge of strategy and logistics, and are gifted with some of the most powerful mutations and abilities known to man. The question remains... what is a chaos LORD of Tzeentch? A Sorcerer (your natural choice for Tzeentch because of their psychic powers and formidable close combat ability with Force Weapons) is what people take first but if you take a Chaos Lord, what do you look forward to him doing?

 

Lore-wise a Chaos Lord of Tzeentch is supposed to be gifted with mutations (of the helpful kind) which can be anything and anything you can think of but without access to psychic powers what does he do to one-up his Sorcerers (chief-librarian and epostilaries/codiciers)??? What do you guys think?

 

Stat-wise a Chaos Lord taking Mark of Tzeentch has +1 Invulnerable Save... not much imo. Even taken with Terminator Armor, Lightning Claws, or Powerfist and Combi-weapon, or anything really, will this assault-focused unit be worth his points? I mean, why do lords even have the ability to TAKE MoT?

 

(And a side-note, has it been verified if you can take MoT and stack it with Sigil of Corruption or Aura of Dark Glory?)

[vonny]

yes, lords can take MoT, and yes, it does stack with the other items that give invulnerable saves. Better yet - that's how ahriman and the thousand sons squad get their 4++ save.

 

For me, a Tzeentchian Lord is one who uses tricks, ambushes and myriad plans-within-plans to achieve victory. More something from playstyle and listbuilding than actual equipment you can give him, I think.

[Brother Nihm]

Stat-wise a Chaos Lord taking Mark of Tzeentch has +1 Invulnerable Save... not much imo. Even taken with Terminator Armor, Lightning Claws, or Powerfist and Combi-weapon, or anything really, will this assault-focused unit be worth his points? I mean, why do lords even have the ability to TAKE MoT?

I think the option to take Tzeencthian Lords is primarily for the non-TSons players.

 

As to the kind of person he'd likely be.

I imagine that he could be a master manipulator, a grand schemer, an evil genius touched by madness, whose ambition trandscends those of lesser men (and Space Marines).

[*Furyou Miko]

Examples of Lords of Tzeentch in other fiction;

 

Ernst Stravo Blofeld

Dr. Evil (for the 'comedy lite' version)

Grima Wormtongue

Starscream

Feathers McGraw

Nogbad the Bad

Treize Kushrenada

L (from Death Note)

Professor Moriarty

Anybody on this page

[Excessus]

Nooooooo, not a link to TV tropes!!!!!

 

 

 

 

...I'll be back in a week or so... :tu:

[*Furyou Miko]

lol, yeah, I was struggling a little to make the list, then I remembered someone already did it for me. :huh:

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I'd also add Beatrice and Virgilla from Umineko as Tzeentch lords (ladys) especially their "North wind and sun" trick.

[Kol Saresk]

To me Tzeentch lords are pretty much everyone that has already been suggested. But also like that little demon twerp from the Devil May Cry anime. The one that was too weak to be worth killing, but spent the entire series collecting objects of power in order to summon the most powerful demon to absorb her power so he could become the most powerful demon. Essentially, the schemers. Some of them rely on their own power. Some rely on using others instead of their own because it may be too weak or they just don't want to wear themselves out. The people who are really good at making things work from behind the scenes and are willing to turn anything and everything to their advantage.

 

Also, Hannibal from the A-Team. He'd be perfect as a Tzeentch Lord. If he ever went evil.

[facmanpob]

I always thought that Willy Wonka (the Gene Wilder classic version of course!) was the ultimate Tzeentchian Lord

 

I mean, take a look at the script for the boat scene just after Augustus Gloop has been sucked up the tube:

 

THERE'S NO EARTHLY WAY OF KNOWING

 

MR. SALT: Heh, heh . . . he's singing . . .

 

WONKA:

WHICH DIRECTION WE ARE GOING

THERE'S NO KNOWING WHERE WE'RE ROWING

 

MR. SALT:

(echoing) ROWING . . .

 

WONKA:

OR WHICH WAY THE RIVER'S FLOWING

 

IS IT RAINING

IS IT SNOWING

IS A HURRICANE A-BLOWING

 

Bleh!

Not a speck of light is showing

So the danger must be growing

Are the fires of hell a glowing?

Is the grisly reaper mowing?

Yes! The danger must be growing

For the rowers keep on rowing

And they're certainly not showing

Any signs that they are slowing!

 

(Wonka screams. Chaos.)

[ChaosLord Leon Enaek]

Agree with Gene Wilder :)

 

But... L? I see him more as a borderline Radical Inquisitor - he is too abstract, too logical, to fall to Chaos (unless to obsessively hunt the Chaos Daemon known as "Kira the Saviour"). Light on the other hand... He has the insane god complex, a daemonic familiar, a Chaos artifact, an obbsession with deciet and obtaining power, as well as an affinity for schemes and double crossing. Light Yagami; High Magistir of the Cult of he Saviour.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I want to model cultists that look like the goat butlers from Unemiko (look it up on google, I can't seem to find any images that the BnC will let me post.)

now.. and just seen a pic of one with a third golden eye, and loads of golden eyes on his body and cloths on the googl search, was planning on doing a lady in ball gown as a count as allied herald of Tzeentch (Beatrice the eternal, Mistress of cult of the Golden land) or count as sorcerer or apostle, but am thinking that guy as a sorcerer/lord/daemon prince, the golden eyes are especially Tzeentchy.

Plus me and my friends suspect Steven Moffat or Tzeentch had a hand in in the production of Umineko, so it fits :)

[Grazcruzk]

These are all awesome thoughts. I had an idea for a MoT Lord in TDA with the Black Mace and sigil to get him a 3++ and represent it with a tower shield. Big shield, teminator armor, black mace. Something of a hulking rubric lord, controlled by a crippled sorcerer. I have no idea if he would be worth the points, but it sounds fun.

[Julgolax]

These are all awesome thoughts. I had an idea for a MoT Lord in TDA with the Black Mace and sigil to get him a 3++ and represent it with a tower shield. Big shield, teminator armor, black mace. Something of a hulking rubric lord, controlled by a crippled sorcerer. I have no idea if he would be worth the points, but it sounds fun.

 

I forget the character's name(s) but this reminds me of the chaos twins from fantasy.

 

Here's someone's conversion of the character. Sorcerer controlling his brother's body.

[Chronotonic]

rastlain from the d&d book series

 

he was the red robe to the black robe wizard that almost toppled the dark goddess

 

and he had a brother that always watched out for him with his strenght...

[*Furyou Miko]

Raistlin's not really relevant though (nor is the Fantasy character), since those are both Sorcerers of Tzeentch and the thread is about Lords (IE: None magic-users).

[Knurd]

I am going to start a CSM\Daemons army and have wanted to create a character based on Illidan from WoW. I am trying to use the Murder Sword to count as for his War Glaives. Maybe give him the Scrolls of Magnus.

 

I previously wanted to use the generic daemon weapon with the MoT but that was taken out. :(

[spafe]

The mad hatter from alice in wonderland? Seems to fit with a tzeentchian mind set (the film that is).

 

I know not a lord per say, but am I the only one who wants to model the cheshire cat as a sorc?

[Xeraxen]

Examples of Lords of Tzeentch in other fiction;

 

Ernst Stravo Blofeld

Dr. Evil (for the 'comedy lite' version)

Grima Wormtongue

Starscream

Feathers McGraw

Nogbad the Bad

Treize Kushrenada

L (from Death Note)

Professor Moriarty

Anybody on this page

 

Let's not forget Lelouch Vi Britannia/Lamperouge from Code Geass [i hate that show, btw. XD] since sometimes Tzeentch lords are raised high only to be cast down as necessary pawns in Architect's great game [though Lelouch's downfall was mainly due to poor plot and planning on the writer's part, imo]. Plus Lelouch has the whole eye motif, and Tzeentch loves eyes.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

with the current codex, a masochist.

[Rain]

A Lord of Tzeentch is an oversight in rules writing. I mean sure you can make up excuses and ideas for how it would "work" fluffwise but at the end of the day that's all it is, an oversight. For whatever reason GW decided to remove Sorcerer Lords as a thing including for Tz marked characters so now it's just a regular Lord with a better invulnerable save. It's like the guy that runs the CDC commanding a Nurgle army, it's stupid and against theme, but hey whatever, at least we have dragons now, DRAGONS.

[Antarius]

A Lord of Tzeentch is an oversight in rules writing. I mean sure you can make up excuses and ideas for how it would "work" fluffwise but at the end of the day that's all it is, an oversight. For whatever reason GW decided to remove Sorcerer Lords as a thing including for Tz marked characters so now it's just a regular Lord with a better invulnerable save. It's like the guy that runs the CDC commanding a Nurgle army, it's stupid and against theme, but hey whatever, at least we have dragons now, DRAGONS.

^_^ I couldn't disagree more. Why on earth would a Chaos Space Marine with the mark of Tzeentch not be able to command a warband? Unless you think the idea of marked CSM that aren't Thousand Sons is silly as well it seems obvious that some of them would eventually rise to power within their respective warbands/legions. Not to mention the possibility of Tzeentch marking a particularly ambitious or scheming warrior who's already in command of a warband (such as Captain Vandred of the Night Lords for example).

I think there are plenty of possibilities (and examples) there and I certainly don't think it's stupid or against theme at all.

 

Also, Tzeentch isn't just about magic.

[*Furyou Miko]

A Lord of Tzeentch is an oversight in rules writing. I mean sure you can make up excuses and ideas for how it would "work" fluffwise but at the end of the day that's all it is, an oversight. For whatever reason GW decided to remove Sorcerer Lords as a thing including for Tz marked characters so now it's just a regular Lord with a better invulnerable save. It's like the guy that runs the CDC commanding a Nurgle army, it's stupid and against theme, but hey whatever, at least we have dragons now, DRAGONS.

 

Uh, no. You're wrong.

 

Completely and utterly wrong.

 

Your comparison is erroneous, for a start - the director of the CDC is an anti-disease beaurocrat, while Nurgle is pro-disease. A Tzeentch Lord is not an anti-magic maniac. He just happens not to have any magical ability of his own, or at least none that he can use on the battlefield. The only oversight is that Lords aren't allowed to buy powers - but by no means should they be forced into it.

[Lieutenant Steel]

Uh, no. You're wrong.

 

Completely and utterly wrong.

 

Your comparison is erroneous, for a start - the director of the CDC is an anti-disease beaurocrat, while Nurgle is pro-disease. A Tzeentch Lord is not an anti-magic maniac. He just happens not to have any magical ability of his own, or at least none that he can use on the battlefield. The only oversight is that Lords aren't allowed to buy powers - but by no means should they be forced into it.

 

This ^

 

Only the Chaos Lords of the Thousand Sons would be Sorceror Lords or equivalent. In the same way that you can have 'regular' CSMs marked by Tzeentch without being Rubricae you can definitely have a regular Chaos Lord in service of Tzeentch without being a Sorceror. I also agree with Miko that Sorceror Lords should have been available as an optional upgrade however, so that Thousand Sons Lords could have been represented accurately.

 

Chaos Lords of Tzeentch could have a myriad of 'lesser powers' that don't have any direct battle field ability, but could be represented by the fact that he is a master manipulator outside of a warzone (think Jedi-style persuasion of Imperial Guard units and other trickery) and/or their ability as a battle-field tactician due to prescience.

 

IMO it's perfectly fluffy.

[Dammeron]

Chaos Lords or servants of Tzeentch that lack magical or psychic potential can be any number of things, from academics, politicians; revolutionary leaders, artists, philosophers; any and all that seek to change their state or the conditions that surround them draws the many, wandering eyes of the Great Schemer. Unlike Nurgle, who is his antithesis, Tzeentch seems to choose his servants surreptitiously, most not even realising that they ARE his servants (or pawns) until it is too late. Nurgle, in the other hand, waits for those in direst plight to call out to him, embracing him openly. Thus a servant of Tzeentch doesn't even necessarily have to be an active worshipper; an interesting dynamic for a Tzeentch army might be a Chaos Lord who is being subtly manipulated by the Tzeentchian Sorcerer who is ostensibly in his employ, guided towards some proscribed destiny.

 

The officers and champions of the Alpha Legion, given their penchant for scheming and duplicity, are likely high on Tzeentch's list of favourite people, whether they have psychic abilities or not.

[TheDarkApostle]

Examples of Lords of Tzeentch in other fiction;

 

Ernst Stravo Blofeld

Dr. Evil (for the 'comedy lite' version)

Grima Wormtongue

Starscream

Feathers McGraw

Nogbad the Bad

Treize Kushrenada

L (from Death Note)

Professor Moriarty

Anybody on this page

 

Let's not forget Lelouch Vi Britannia/Lamperouge from Code Geass [i hate that show, btw. XD] since sometimes Tzeentch lords are raised high only to be cast down as necessary pawns in Architect's great game [though Lelouch's downfall was mainly due to poor plot and planning on the writer's part, imo]. Plus Lelouch has the whole eye motif, and Tzeentch loves eyes.

As a footnote it was actually the producing studio that overruled the writers and completely rewrote the story and direction of the series halfway through season 2 of Code Geass. :)

 

TDA